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Mughal influence in India and Indian history

Here is a nice poem from the 'Baburnama' written by Babur himself

Babar had to keep his coalition together with included zealots. Babar imposed ban on cow slaughter too. When you rule you have to follow policies to keep social peace.
 
How about listening to Badsha Nama of shah Jahan ?

"When Shuja was appointed as governor of Kabul he carried on a ruthless war in the Hindu territory beyond Indus...The sword of Islam yielded a rich crop of converts....Most of the women (to save their honour) burnt themselves to death. Those captured were distributed among Muslim Mansabdars."


How about the benevolent Mughal Shahjahan ? Here is what Manucci, Storia do Mogor vol-II p.451 & Travels of Frey Sebastian Manrique has to say,

"Under Shahjahan peasents were compelled to sell their women and children to meet their revenue requirements....The peasents were carried off to various Markets and fairs to be sold with their poor unhappy wives carrying their small children crying and lamenting. According to Qaznivi Shahjagan had decreed they should be sold to Muslim lords."


How about Aurangzeb ? :coffee: ...... here is his Maasi-i-Alamgiri

  • Issued general order to destroy all centers of Hindu learnings including Varnasi and destroyed the temple at Mathura and renamed it as Islamabad
  • In Khandela (rajastan) he killed 300 Hindus in one day for they resisted the destruction of their temple.
  • In Udaipur all Hindus of the town were killed as they vowed to defend the temple of Udaipur from destruction.
  • 172 temples were destroyed in Udaipur.
  • 66 temples were pulled down in Amber. All Hindu clerks were dismissed from the office of the Imperial empire.
  • In Pandhpur , Maharashtra, the Emperor ordered and executed the destruction of temple and butchering of cows within the temple.


Aurangazeb also killed Guru Gobind singh's two children aged less than ten by walling them alive for not accepting the choice of Islam. In Punjab Muslim governors killed hundreds of Sikh children and made Sikh women eat the flesh of their own killed children. Banda Bahadur another great Sikh martyr before being torturd to death was also made to eat the flesh of his own children killed before his eyes. Any Muslim bringing the head of a dead Sikh was also awarded money.


Wonders of the Mughal Rule.

I wont be that certain and generous with making a comment like this. it might be true for some or for argument sake many. but definitely not ALL were forced converts.

let me share something with you very controversial which might hurt some and please some
some preachers claim that their faith is the truth because rich dismiss them due to corruption and greed and threat to the status-quo and the poor/ needy flock up to them because they see the light


both Muslims and Christians claim that. and see in the sub-continent. people below poverty, deprived and helpless are either Muslims (in India) or Christians (India / Pakistan because they get free food and a towel to wipe their tears and some words of relief from the preachers.

this act of those destitute doesn't make the faith the Ultimate TRUTH, but it also doesn't mean that anyone is forced to convert either.

better part of Pakistan was ruled by the Sikh empire of Maharaja Ranjit Sigh and there are Sikh signs from Lahore to Landi Kotal and beyond. this is a eventual consequence for any place whenever it is ruled or conquered by the powerful.. what I mean here is that there is a chance that some Muslims might have found themselves having to convert to sikhism though coercion or due to economic reasons

There are no absolutes, there are always exceptions. But one tend to talk about the Rule, no the exceptions.

Babar had to keep his coalition together with included zealots. Babar imposed ban on cow slaughter too. When you rule you have to follow policies to keep social peace.

Babur was a colourful person.

In Page 120-121 of his biography he says that he was not much interested in his wife but was maddened by a boy named Babri (remember Babri Masjid ?). He confesses that he had not loved anyone like he was mad for this boy. He used to compose verses in love of the boy. For example: “There has been no lover except me who is so sad, passionate and insulted. And there is no one more cruel and wretched than my lover!”

Once Babur was roaming with his friends when Babri came in front of him in a lane. Babur had loss of speech and could not even look at him due to excitement. He narrated:”I get embarrassed looking at my lover. My friends leer at me and I leer someone else.”

He writes, ”I used to get mad in excitement and passion. I could not think that lovers have to face this. I could not go away from you, nor can I stay with you due to high level of excitement. You have made me completely mad, O my (male) lover!”



Here is some more extracts from his own Book,

- Page 232: He writes that his gang beheaded the innocent Afghans who came to him for truce, and then created a pillar from these heads. The same feat was repeated in Hangu where 200 Afghan heads were killed to create a pillar.

– Page 370: Because people of Bajaur did not believe in Islam, more than 3000 people were murdered and their wives and children were taken as captives.

– Page 371 – Several heads of captured people were sent to Kabutl, Balkh and other places to spread news of victory.

– Page 371 – A tower of cut heads was setup on ground to celebrate victory.

– Page 371 – There was a wine party on Muharram where we drank whole night. (Translator notes here that Babur was a heavy drunkard till end of his life). A large portion of Baburnama describes these wine parties.

– Page 373 – Babur took such intoxicants once that he could not go even for prayers. He further says that had he taken such intoxicants today, he would not have produced half the intoxication.

– Page 374 – Babur fathered several children from several women in his brothel. His first wife promised to adopt all these illegitimate children, whenever they are born in future, because several children born to her could not live. It looks as if Babur’s brothel was akin to a poultry farm for chicken production!

– Page 385-388 – Babur was so happy with birth of Humayun that he went to a boat with his friends and drank wine whole night and ate narcotics. Then they fought with each other due to intoxication and party broke up. After a similar party, he vomited a lot and forgot everything by morning.

– Page 527 – A party was given in the pillared porch of the domed building in Agra (referring to Taj Mahal falsely associated with Shah Jahan)
 
How about listening to Badsha Nama of shah Jahan ?

"When Shuja was appointed as governor of Kabul he carried on a ruthless war in the Hindu territory beyond Indus...The sword of Islam yielded a rich crop of converts....Most of the women (to save their honour) burnt themselves to death. Those captured were distributed among Muslim Mansabdars."


How about the benevolent Mughal Shahjahan ? Here is what Manucci, Storia do Mogor vol-II p.451 & Travels of Frey Sebastian Manrique has to say,

"Under Shahjahan peasents were compelled to sell their women and children to meet their revenue requirements....The peasents were carried off to various Markets and fairs to be sold with their poor unhappy wives carrying their small children crying and lamenting. According to Qaznivi Shahjagan had decreed they should be sold to Muslim lords."


How about Aurangzeb ? :coffee: ...... here is his Maasi-i-Alamgiri

  • Issued general order to destroy all centers of Hindu learnings including Varnasi and destroyed the temple at Mathura and renamed it as Islamabad
  • In Khandela (rajastan) he killed 300 Hindus in one day for they resisted the destruction of their temple.
  • In Udaipur all Hindus of the town were killed as they vowed to defend the temple of Udaipur from destruction.
  • 172 temples were destroyed in Udaipur.
  • 66 temples were pulled down in Amber. All Hindu clerks were dismissed from the office of the Imperial empire.
  • In Pandhpur , Maharashtra, the Emperor ordered and executed the destruction of temple and butchering of cows within the temple.


Aurangazeb also killed Guru Gobind singh's two children aged less than ten by walling them alive for not accepting the choice of Islam. In Punjab Muslim governors killed hundreds of Sikh children and made Sikh women eat the flesh of their own killed children. Banda Bahadur another great Sikh martyr before being torturd to death was also made to eat the flesh of his own children killed before his eyes. Any Muslim bringing the head of a dead Sikh was also awarded money.


Wonders of the Mughal Rule.



There are no absolutes, there are always exceptions. But one tend to talk about the Rule, no the exceptions.



Babur was a colourful person.

In Page 120-121 of his biography he says that he was not much interested in his wife but was maddened by a boy named Babri (remember Babri Masjid ?). He confesses that he had not loved anyone like he was mad for this boy. He used to compose verses in love of the boy. For example: “There has been no lover except me who is so sad, passionate and insulted. And there is no one more cruel and wretched than my lover!”

Once Babur was roaming with his friends when Babri came in front of him in a lane. Babur had loss of speech and could not even look at him due to excitement. He narrated:”I get embarrassed looking at my lover. My friends leer at me and I leer someone else.”

He writes, ”I used to get mad in excitement and passion. I could not think that lovers have to face this. I could not go away from you, nor can I stay with you due to high level of excitement. You have made me completely mad, O my (male) lover!”



Here is some more extracts from his own Book,

- Page 232: He writes that his gang beheaded the innocent Afghans who came to him for truce, and then created a pillar from these heads. The same feat was repeated in Hangu where 200 Afghan heads were killed to create a pillar.

– Page 370: Because people of Bajaur did not believe in Islam, more than 3000 people were murdered and their wives and children were taken as captives.

– Page 371 – Several heads of captured people were sent to Kabutl, Balkh and other places to spread news of victory.

– Page 371 – A tower of cut heads was setup on ground to celebrate victory.

– Page 371 – There was a wine party on Muharram where we drank whole night. (Translator notes here that Babur was a heavy drunkard till end of his life). A large portion of Baburnama describes these wine parties.

– Page 373 – Babur took such intoxicants once that he could not go even for prayers. He further says that had he taken such intoxicants today, he would not have produced half the intoxication.

– Page 374 – Babur fathered several children from several women in his brothel. His first wife promised to adopt all these illegitimate children, whenever they are born in future, because several children born to her could not live. It looks as if Babur’s brothel was akin to a poultry farm for chicken production!

– Page 385-388 – Babur was so happy with birth of Humayun that he went to a boat with his friends and drank wine whole night and ate narcotics. Then they fought with each other due to intoxication and party broke up. After a similar party, he vomited a lot and forgot everything by morning.

– Page 527 – A party was given in the pillared porch of the domed building in Agra (referring to Taj Mahal falsely associated with Shah Jahan)

so are you implying that heavy drinking and having same sex interests made him a softy and less religious? or just stating as something important to lead this discussion further? by the way all that you have quoted makes me jealous, wine, women and all the luxury.

would you detail any other Hindu maharaja who can top that or should someone else list out the sexual exploits of say
Chandragupta Maurya or Ashoka
 
so are you implying that heavy drinking and having same sex interests made him a softy and less religious? or just stating as something important to lead this discussion further? by the way all that you have quoted makes me jealous, wine, women and all the luxury.

would you detail any other Hindu maharaja who can top that or should someone else list out the sexual exploits of say
Chandragupta Maurya or Ashoka

Sadly there are no such records which exist of Chandragupta Maurya or Ashoka that exploits such acts.

But feel free to prove me wrong.

But Arthashastra written during CM's time dues advice the king to stay way from six enemies: anger, greed, lust, exuberance, hauteur and vanity.
 
Here is a nice poem from the 'Baburnama' written by Babur himself :enjoy:

"For the sake of Islam I became a wanderer,
I battled infidels and Hindus,
I determined to become a martyr
Thank God I became a Killer of Non-Muslims!"
To me entire Mughal clans were worst creatures on earth... The trademark of Muslim invaders
1) Mountain of human skull
2) Desecration the other faiths
3) Harem with sex slaves from infidels females
4) Conversion at sword point

60 million ppl were killed in the Subcontinent in the entire history of inhumane Islamic conquest n ppl are shamelessly telling Taj Mahal the excellence of Mughal model of governance.....
I visited Chittoorgarh fort Las month n learnt about jowhar .... These liberals of todays time needs to understand how it feels when you see your mother sister wife or daughter in the harem of these invaders....
I also met a Hindu whose family were forcibly converted to Islam n remained Muslim for two generations before reverting back to original faith....
The barbaric imprints are abundantly found across the country....
Jauhar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Since Irfan Baloch mentioned Chanragupta Maurya and Ashoka as comparison with the Mughals, Here is what we do know about them.

According to legend Chanragupta Maurya was converted to Jainism by a sage who had predicted a twelve-year drought.

With the drought came famine in place of the affluence that Megasthenes had described. In an effort to combat the drought, Chandragupta, in 301 BCE, abdicated in favor of one of his sons, Bindusara, and he withdrew with the Jainist sage to a religious retreat in India's southwest. There, according to legend, while appealing to God for relief from the drought, he fasted to death.

Ashoka, after the war at Kalinga became a Buddhist and send missionaries to all parts of the world preaching peace and non violence.


Let those who want to compare, do so honestly.
 
To me entire Mughal clans were worst creatures on earth... The trademark of Muslim invaders
1) Mountain of human skull
2) Desecration the other faiths
3) Harem with sex slaves from infidels females
4) Conversion at sword point

60 million ppl were killed in the Subcontinent in the entire history of inhumane Islamic conquest n ppl are shamelessly telling Taj Mahal the excellence of Mughal model of governance.....
I visited Chittoorgarh fort Las month n learnt about jowhar .... These liberals of todays time needs to understand how it feels when you see your mother sister wife or daughter in the harem of these invaders....
I also met a Hindu whose family were forcibly converted to Islam n remained Muslim for two generations before reverting back to original faith....
The barbaric imprints are abundantly found across the country....
Jauhar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How about Ahmad Shah Abdali attacked India in 1757 AD ? This is what his chronicle called : 'Tarikh-I-Alamgiri' has to say:

"Abdali's soldiers would be paid 5 Rupees (a sizeable amount at the time) for every enemy head brought in. Every horseman had loaded up all his horses with the plundered property, and atop of it rode the girl-captives and the slaves. The severed heads were tied up in rugs like bundles of grain and placed on the heads of the captives...Then the heads were stuck upon lances and taken to the gate of the chief minister for payment.

"It was an extraordinary display! Daily did this manner of slaughter and plundering proceed. And at night the shrieks of the women captives who were being raped, deafened the ears of the people...All those heads that had been cut off were built into pillars, and the captive men upon whose heads those bloody bundles had been brought in, were made to grind corn, and then their heads too were cut off. These things went on all the way to the city of Agra, nor was any part of the country spared."
 
we are talking Mughals so lets stay on topic
by the way. one of your points reminds me something my father told me once on how the Mughals suceeded

the bodies of the Mughal royalties and their siblings are lying on the floor, there is still life in them as they bleed (woman and children not an exception) and the thick Persian carpets are put on top of them and the preparations are being made for the celeration and crowning of New Alam Panah (the Maharajah the great leader).

how brutal and genocidal were the Mughal princes that they will have their infant and toddler siblings drowned in the imperial fountains rather than risk to have them as their rivals in the claim to the thrones.
rest of the boozing, womanising, carnage etc was no different from the kings and queens of the old. I find it odd that the word "Muslim" kings is thrust upon their names which seems forced and desperate as they were no different in their actions and words to kings before or after them who were never recognised by what deity they followed

Since Irfan Baloch mentioned Chanragupta Maurya and Ashoka as comparison with the Mughals, Here is what we do know about them.

According to legend Chanragupta Maurya was converted to Jainism by a sage who had predicted a twelve-year drought.

With the drought came famine in place of the affluence that Megasthenes had described. In an effort to combat the drought, Chandragupta, in 301 BCE, abdicated in favor of one of his sons, Bindusara, and he withdrew with the Jainist sage to a religious retreat in India's southwest. There, according to legend, while appealing to God for relief from the drought, he fasted to death.

Ashoka, after the war at Kalinga became a Buddhist and send missionaries to all parts of the world preaching peace and non violence.


Let those who want to compare, do so honestly.

I mentioned them because I respect them and more I learn more I am in awe of them.
but like I said lets go back to Mughals. I was just wondering why the certain fascination about how Babur indulged himself.
 
I mentioned them because I respect them and more I learn more I am in awe of them.
but like I said lets go back to Mughals. I was just wondering why the certain fascination about how Babur indulged himself.

Because someone was just admiring Babur and defending him, so why not provide the full picture of the man they were defending ?

The same way, the person defending the Mughals, need to understand what they are defending and how it offends the sensibilities of others.

In 1632 Shah jahan ordered that all Hindu temples recently erected or in the course of construction should be razed to the ground. In Benares alone seventy six temples were destroyed. Christian churches at Agra and Lahore were demolished.

In a manner befitting the Prophet (in his own words) he had ten thousand inhabitants executed by being "blown up with powder, drowned in water or burnt by fire". Four thousand were taken captive to Agra where they were tortured to try to convert them to Islam. Only a few apostacised, the remainder were trampled to death by elephants, except for the younger women who went to harems.

Shahjahan put enormous eonomic pressure on Hindus particularly peasents to become Muslims. The criminals too were forced to become Muslims.
 
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Most of the rich people, tribal leaders, kings, emperors etc had more than on wife. Harem is not limited to Muslim rulers. The ''Ashokavadana'' states that Ashoka's father Bindusara did not like him, because he was ugly. Ashoka killed his step-brother and the legitimate heir by tricking him into entering a pit with live coals, and became the king. He became notorious for his bad temper, and had 500 of his ministers killed because he believed that they were not loyal enough. He also had the women in his harem burnt to death when some of them insulted him. He built an elaborate torture chamber, termed as the "hell on earth" or Ashoka's Hell.
 
there are many African settlers as well. the Baloch also have their roots back to Syria as well
so there is no absolute indeed

They are mostly in Gujarat, they were brought as slaves by the Gujarati sultans (non-Mughals). They are called siddis if I am not wrong.

To me entire Mughal clans were worst creatures on earth... The trademark of Muslim invaders
1) Mountain of human skull
2) Desecration the other faiths
3) Harem with sex slaves from infidels females
4) Conversion at sword point

And what about the Hindus who were supporting and fighting FOR the mughals?

Akbar made a skull mountain after he captured chittor and it was with the help of rajputs who opposed chittor.

Mughals persecuted the Sikhs and who helped capture sikh pilgrims for the Mughals?

Who was marrying of their own women to the mughals in return for mansabdari?

Who were among the first to convert and serve the mughals?
 
Most of the rich people, tribal leaders, kings, emperors etc had more than on wife. Harem is not limited to Muslim rulers. The ''Ashokavadana'' states that Ashoka's father Bindusara did not like him, because he was ugly. Ashoka killed his step-brother and the legitimate heir by tricking him into entering a pit with live coals, and became the king. He became notorious for his bad temper, and had 500 of his ministers killed because he believed that they were not loyal enough. He also had the women in his harem burnt to death when some of them insulted him. He built an elaborate torture chamber, termed as the "hell on earth" or Ashoka's Hell.

Ashokavadana also states that Ashoka destroyed that torture chamber after he became a Buddhist.
 
The ''Ashokavadana'' states that Ashoka's father Bindusara did not like him, because he was ugly.

LOL!! That's not true. Asoka some say was the bastard child of Bindusura or in any case the child of a woman who was not worthy to be called a queen. Needless to say the old man Bindusura had many many manyyyy wives and concubines. So many wives, so many children - but only one heir.

The result was a bloody power struggle and it happened from the time of Ashoka to the Mughal empire.
 
Mughal empire did have its pros and cons. On one side Mughal empire was able to unite parts of India while on the other side the religious intolerance within the subcontinent grew by leaps and bounds during this period, also the agrarian crises were not addressed.
The golden age of India is and has always been the Gupta period. Nevertheless, Mughal's contribution to our "recent" past can not be ignored.
We could have flourished without even Mughals contributions... What we were before Mughal ..... snake charmers? No ....

Levina check the inhumane crimes of Mughal..... Could be you don't count on human life or integrity or religious faith over few structures....
 

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