MRCA ::: India May Cancel Fighter Competition

[my name is arya]

well deal is not going to cancel but yes we can also go for either f35 ,su35

as per my source deal is on

 

[tvsram1992]

entry of MRCA by 2020 and Pilots will master these aircrafts by 2024 and till then stealth PAK FA/ FGFA will become the frontline aircrafts as you won't send 4th gen in the Chinese territory if you know these 4th gen won't back. so, you are paying $130mil, 30% more than PAK FA, for an interceptor which will woork within Indian territory??????

If Mig35 can be fitted with AL-37FU or AL-41F1 so that it can super cruise at Mach 2 and can exceed speed greater than Mach 3 much better way to skip missile hits mimicing Mig25 (With the current engine only it can reach Mach 2.35 ).That would make it best 4th gen aircraft dumping Su30mki .

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 PM ----------

F35/ JSF is nothing but aa crap. I have read many times on the western newspapers that even twin engine J20 would be decisively better than F35 while PAK FA is a much better one, and with delays in F35 programs, more or less F35 would also come in production sometimes from 2018.(also, PAK FA cost around $100mil each while F35 atleast fro $160mil). please read one link below and google about F35, its nothing but a crap.
Scientists warned Australian defence department against Joint Strike Fighter

just went through wikipedia ,
it says unit cost of PAKFA is $57million and FGFA around $100million.

 

[Zabaniyah]

just went through wikipedia ,
it says unit cost of PAKFA is $57million and FGFA around $100million.

Never trust Wikipedia.

 

[Hello_10]

hmmmm
so according to your logic there is no way on earth we will be sending even
MKI"s into 'deep china' as it is not stealth
should we debunk them too
and if
a mki'ed mig 35 will be better option than a rafale or typhoon
so you think 'our' air force threw it out of the competion for nothing
the reality is both rafale and typhoon are way better than su 30mki
more so if you compare rafale's A2G capabilities and EF T3B[the one we'll get]'s A2A capabilties

Sir, I tell you something and please don’t come with any conclusion based on Black or White, this or that, yellow or green etc as we always have to deal with ‘Grey areas’ and I don’t want to discuss the small small terms as it will take us into deep discussions which isn’t related to our profession.

Mig21 was a frontline aircraft for IAF during 1971 but the militants shot down one Mig21 in Kargil in 1999 by just the guns/ missiles they brought on their hands and then 4th gen Mirage2000H were sent which could work on a good height and were capable of laser guided missiles. And no matter how much upgrade you could give to Mig21, it cant work like even Mig29/ Mirage2000H as there is a generation gap. Similarly, Eurofighter is an air superiority aircraft, without AESA radar right now, but it will have improved its A2G capabilities by 2015 with a very powerful AESA radar till then and then it will become better than Rafale, as what is claimed. but right now, it neither has this radar nor a credible A2G performance. Similarly, few claim that jf17 is better than LCA but Indians say LCA will become better than jf17 by 2013 with proposed upgrades but Pakistanis say till then, new batch of jf17 will be of block 2 and they may negotiate for a capable AESA also for jf17 by 2015 so jf17 would then become better than LCA by that time. These upgrades in 4th gen aircrafts will continue throughout this decades but when time of 5th gen will start after 2020, no matter how much upgrades you give, these 4th gen will become just “Interceptors” for the roles within Indian territory only and we will need stealth aircrafts for operations deep inside China which wont be traced by radar and back after credible operations there.

SU30MKI with AESA radar and Brahmos missile will be used as a front line aircraft only till hardly 2024/ 25. And yes, if you compare this with the existing Rafale without AESA radar and new batch of Rafale with a ‘weak’ AESA radar as compare to the Russian one, and EFT without this radar and poor A2G role right now, I find only Raptor better than SU30MKI right now as even F35 would come in production from 2018.

I have delivered many engineering projects for supplying Industrial pumps while working with a American MNC and “On Time Delivery” is the main criterion for the success of any project even if we put little higher mark up/ margin. And in few cases, we have to put something on guarantee for on time delivery of equipments also. This MRCA deal is moving towards “Time Out” as now we want 5th gen aircrafts. What I told to few in 2008, “Yes Rafale come with AESA so its good to go for it than Mirage2000-5mk2, even if Mirage cost $60mil and Rafale $90mil. And after 3-4 years, there will be something new so we would again wait for a while. And right now, we don’t want any 4th gen as “Time” is gone.

and I repeat, We have only dual engine Mig35, (with much improved A2G capabilities and AESA radar), right now if we want to go for MRCA anymore. Indian Pilots have experience on Mig29s so they may easily be able to work on the border areas with these aircrafts by just 2014, as these aircrafts may be dilivered from mid to late 2013 onwards. thanks

 

[untitled]

self delete

 

[tvsram1992]

Never trust Wikipedia.

lol there was a source

 

[untitled]

lol there was a source

Then quote the source

 

[tvsram1992]

Then quote the source

i mean there is a source in wiki
Sukhoi PAK FA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
but no link given

 

[Hello_10]

Now before I get bombarded with Indian innuendo let me make two quick points.
Israel cooperates with India as long as it suits US. Ask the Chinese if they got their AWACS? Or may I remind you about the Saga of Israeli AESA Radar for Indian Gripen?
I have previously argued that US contenders for MMRCA were pound-for-pound most cost effective systems and European aircraft do not pan out to be as cost effective as they appear on paper. Order for 126 advanced European aircraft will easily see Indian government paying far more than 10 Billion dollars. It just cannot be done. And BTW there is news that your Mig 29 upgrade is in trouble as well. Russia want 2 Billions more.
I guess when you jibber jabbber about your wealth, people get greedy eh?

I haven’t heard about it as we already have half of the Mig29s upgraded to SMT standard till now. But Im very happy to discuss the mostly discussed deal between India and Russia, it was about Aircraft Career Gorskov which was to be supplied for around $800mil but it then increased to over $2bn and too many Indian medias asked why?????????

India had that deal with Russia about 10 years before and during time of Mr Putin/ Mr Medvedev, per capita income of Russia on PPP increased by around 3 times since 1998. Raw material became very expansive and also ruble was appreciated during this period and India. Cost of making products dramatically increased in Russia during last over 10 years as labor cost is higher there right now than 10 years before. And it became almost impossible to make this AC within the budget. And whenever Indian media made more noise, Russia staright said that they were happy to return the advance and they may use this Aircraft Career for their own Navy, a fair talk, as if they cant make something within the budget then they wont make arms for you by their own pockets? While , Russia continued their support for Indian indigenous aircraft career, IAC-1, and I remember it’s Keel from Russia was laid down in front of Mr Antony in 2009. But it was only India who wanted to buy Goskov anyhow and finally Mr Medvedev gave it final touch last year. But Russia always offered to return advance and induct the AC in their own navy, if Indian side thinks it was expansive, isn’t fair? please google and confirm it.

And its true that no one want to give their best techs to others but Russia share techs of their best aircrafts SU35/ SU30MKI with India, transferring its full techs from raw to product and also India is engaged with them for their best aircrafts, PAK FA, from design to production/ operation etc. And please compare Russia with another supplier, France, also. GDP of India is around 10 times to that of Pakistan on PPP but total number of submarines of India may fall even below to that of Pakistan by 2014 because now Scorpion submarine deal for six piece with France has increased from $2.1bn to over $5bn, delivery time from 2008 to ‘expected’ 2015. and at the same time, now $3.9bn is required to upgrade existing 51 Mirage2000H to 2000-5mk2 standard, around $79mil per piece and negotiations for this upgrades is going on for last over 5 years?

Just travel the world and compare Russia with other arm suppliers to India. No one wants to share his best defense techs with others but Russia always favored India with whatever techs they have.

From 1989 until 2008, Russia's GDP Per Capita adjusted by Purchasing Power Parity averaged 9096.20 dollars, reaching an historical high of 15923.00 dollars in December of 2008 and a record low of 6258.00 dollars in December of 1998.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-per-capita-ppp

GDP - per capita (PPP) of Russia: $15,900 (2010 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rs.html

per capita income in PPP term adjust inflation so it is the net increase of income per person in Russia during time of Mr Putin, who controlled Russia during last 12 years.

 

[IND151]

^^ are MIG 29 UPG actually MIG 29 SMT?

 

[SEAL]

IAF chief said they will announce MRCA winner by the mid of December so don't get frustrated by such news just wait few more days. As far as cost and money is concern its not a big deal for them, India ko chona har koi lagata ha they are used to pay double.

 

[lem34]

Indian procurement process needs some serious changes

 

[tvsram1992]

Indian procurement process needs some serious changes

please suggest some changes

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

please suggest some changes

1) Way too much emphasis on RFP's, which is great if you've got patience like the Chinese.
2) Not enough on FMS, might be more expensive, but you get your **** fast.

Ours needs to be a healthy balance between the both, when it's almost exclusively RFP's

 

[joyamalik87]

I was referring to F/A 18 Super Hornet as it was offered in a package to meet your own 6000+ Criteria based proposal. Once it became clear what the Indians were doing, Boeing did try to offer additional improvments in the package.
Of late, even a partnership into F 35 Lightening Program has been offered to India while the systems are being developed.
Mind you no other manufacturer can offer you access to such technology at the very cutting edge - FGFA or no FGFA.

Its just media fuss... Officially they not offered f-35 pig to india...