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MRCA Competition-threat to PAF?

Man great, u mean a few Star fighter changed everything, wake up, or u think those first gen AAM changed everything?Why the hell we have to explain to every Indian that IAF was doomed in 65, accept it

it was not 75 it was 71

Do u remember an F-86 shooting down a MiG-21, u think F-104 was the only asset in 71 with PAF.... have some sense

what u want to shoot now girl...(no offence :) meant ).......... a typhoon or mikoyan...:)..................really if u want too............. wait for sometime....:)....else u come to paris. it is a cool place love on the air everwhere no fighting.........:)
 
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i am saying again and again that india will not go for typhon or rafale or gripen or any american jet

okay check this out

DERA study

Britain’s Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (now split into QinetiQ and DSTL) did an evaluation in 1994 (simulation based on the available data) comparing the Typhoon with some other modern fighters in how well they performed against an expected adversary aircraft, the Sukhoi Su-35. Due to the lack of information gathered on the 5th generation combat aircraft, the inability to take into account advances in avionics and weapons now fitted to the fighters tested, and lack of knowledge on the capabilities of the Su-35 during the time of this study it is not meant to be considered official and its results should be taken with a pinch of salt.

The study used real pilots flying the JOUST system of networked simulators. Various western aircraft supposed data were put in simulated combat against the Su-35. The results were:

Aircraft Odds vs. Su-35
Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor 10.1 : 1
Eurofighter Typhoon 4.5 : 1
Dassault Rafale C 1 : 1
McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle 0.8 : 1
Boeing F/A-18+ 0.4 : 1
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18C 0.3 : 1
General Dynamics F-16C 0.3 : 1

These results mean, for example, that in simulated combat, 4.5 Su-35s were shot down for every Typhoon lost. Missiles such as the KS-172 may be intended for large targets and not fighters, but their impact on a long range BVR engagement needs to be factored in.

The "F/A-18+" in the study was apparently not the current F/A-18E/F, but an improved version. All the western aircraft in the simulation were using an older version of the AMRAAM missile, except the Rafale which was using the MICA missile. This does not reflect the likely long-term air-to-air armament of Eurofighters (as well as Rafales), which will ultimately be equipped with the longer-range MBDA Meteor (while carrying the AMRAAM as an interim measure).




1. Technology : subdivided into Software, Radar, Maneuverability, Range, Speed, Hard Points, Compatible Weapons, Training of Pilots

2. Servicability : Existing Infrastructure, Reliance on the country offering the plane

3. Costs : Value for money

4. International Scenario

5. TOT

6. Deep Penetration with superior reconnaissance ability


this is what indians shud be looking in these aircrafts...
 
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Boeing F-18 E/F Super Hornet
Mikoyan MiG-35 Fulcrum F
Eurofighter EF-2000 Typhoon
Lockheed-Martin F-16, Block 70
Saab JAS39 Gripen

So let's get started. I'll be outlining the basic points on every aircraft. But first, let's have a review on what this contest is for so we know what we're looking for. The Indian MRCA is a competition for a contract of what was 126 aircraft (I think that may have since increased, I don't know off hand) in the role of a Light Multirole. This is to compliment their purchase of some Su-30 MKI's with a little brother in much the way F-35 compliments the F-22. So what we should be keeping our eyes out for are light multiroles here rather than focusing on the best possible aircraft as we usually do. I'll include a bunch of stats, but they'll be from Wikipedia because I'm a lazy (insert general noun here).

Boeing F-18 E/F Super Fries (Hornet)

General characteristics

* Crew: F/A-18E (1), F/A-18F (2)
* Length: 60 ft 1¼ in (18.31 m)
* Wingspan: 44 ft 8½ in (13.62 m)
* Empty weight: 30,564 lb (13,864 kg)
* Loaded weight: 47,000 lb (21,320 kg) (in fighter configuration)
* Max takeoff weight: 66,000 lb (29,900 kg)
* Powerplant: 2× General Electric F414-GE-400 turbofans
o Dry thrust: 14,000 lbf (62 kN) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 22,000 lbf (98 kN) each
* * Internal fuel capacity: F-18E: 14,400 lb (6,530 kg), F-18F: 13,550 lb (6,145 kg)
* External fuel capacity: 5× 480 gal tanks, totaling 16,380 lb (7,430 kg)

Performance

* Maximum speed: >Mach 1.6[37] (1,050 mph, 1,680 km/h) at high altitude
* Range: 681 mi (592 nm, 1,095 km) on hi-hi-hi interdiction mission with 4× 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs, 2× AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles, and 2× drop tanks
* Combat radius: 150 nm (173 mi, 278 km) 135 min maritime air superiority mission with 6 AAMs and 3 drop tanks
* Service ceiling: >50,000 ft (15,000 m)
* Wing loading: 92.8 lb/ft² (453 kg/m²)

Armament

* Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61A1/A2 Vulcan cannon
* Hardpoints: 11 with a capacity of 17,750 lb (8,050 kg)

Good Points:
-It has AESA (and we all know that having an AESA radar means you can see things farther away, keep track of more of them, launch lots of missiles, battle Japanese city-destroying monsters, fix marriages, and dissipate flatulence in enclosed areas. Trust me. The sales brochure says so.)
-It's an upgrade of a proven airframe
-Taking the whole package, you also get proven equipment to go along with it, including AMRAAM, a few AIM-9's, and other fun toys.
-It's got 11 hard points and the carrying capacity for a lot of doodads, thingamabobs, and doohickeys.

Bad Points:
-This thing is the largest and heaviest in the competition by far.
-The Indians already have a really big fighter, they want a complimentary small one. This just isn't what they want.
-So far, AESA on the Super Fries is pretty spotty. I know, it'll be fixed in a future upgrade, but the competition is now.
-It's slightly smaller than the $45 million Su-30 MKI's and yet costs about 12 million more.
-It's not stealth. Apparently everyone in the 21st century needs stealth or the F-22 will destroy them from 500 km away. With a gun burst.

Final Word:
The aircraft is definitely useful, but ultimately it just doesn't fit the niche that the Indians are looking for. It's kind of like the one-and-a-half-hand bastard sword, it's a bit smaller than the Su-30 MKI's, but too large to be the small multirole that's the goal here. It does have the AESA radar, but that's not special since the MiG-35 is flying around. Also, there have been reports of the F-18's radar has been slightly spotty. I really think that this aircraft, although not a bad one, is just not the right choice here.

Mikoyan MiG-35 Fulcrum-F

General characteristics

* Crew: One or Two
* Length: 19 m (62 ft 4 in)
* Wingspan: 15 m (49 ft 3 in)
* Empty weight: 15,000 kg (33,069 lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 22,700 kg (50,076 lb)
* Powerplant: 2× Klimov RD-33MK afterburning turbofans (90 kN of thrust)

Performance

* Maximum speed: Mach 2.5 (2,448 km/h, 1,521 mph at altitude)
* Range: 4,023 km, 2,500 mi (with external tanks 6000 km, 3728 mi)
* Service ceiling: 18,900 m (62,000 ft)
* Rate of climb: ~300 m/s (60,000 ft/min)

Armament

* 1x 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
* 8 (?) Hard Points

Good Points:
-It's a light multirole. This sounds familiar, possibly related to the idea of some competition?
-It's the other AESA-bearing aircraft, which is a big plus nowadays.
-It makes a really good airshow, which is the prime use of most aircraft nowadays anyway.
-It was originally designed to compliment Su-XX fighters, which conveniently the Indians have.
-That OLS is really cool. It can switch between TV mode, IR mode, or both. It's a pretty neat improvement on IRST.

Bad Points:
-It's only got 8 hard points. Fewer toys to play with.
-It isn't Low-Observability
-It's still just a stopgap until the next multirole. In fact, it was almost just a demonstration that Mikoyan is still alive and doing stuff since Sukhoi got the prime spot in PAK-FA.

Final Word
It's a strong choice. MiG-29 complimented Su-27, MiG-35 compliments Su-30 MKI. It's a pretty good deal. It also has the AESA radar, which is a pretty big plus. It fits the job of a light multirole alternative to the MKI's in the Indian Air Force. That fits my checklist pretty good. I'd say it is currently at the top of it (and so do a few news sources).

Eurofighter EF-2000 Typhoon:

General characteristics

* Crew: 1 or 2
* Length: 15.96 m (52 ft 5 in)
* Wingspan: 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
* Empty weight: 11,000 kg[48] (24,250 lb)
* Loaded weight: 15,550 kg (34,280 lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 23,000 kg[48] (51,809 lb)
* Powerplant: 2× Eurojet EJ200 afterburning turbofans, 60 kN dry; 90 kN with afterburner (13,500 lbf; 20,250 lbf) each

Performance

* Maximum speed:
o At altitude: Mach 2[49][50]
o At sea level: Mach 1.2 (1,470 km/h, 915 mph)[citation needed]
o Supercruise: Mach 1.2[48]
* Range: 1390 km (864 mi)
* Ferry range: 3790 km (2,300 mi)
* Service ceiling: 19,812 m (65,000 ft[51])
* Thrust/weight: 1.18

Armament

* Gun: 1x 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon
* Air-to-Air missiles: AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-132 ASRAAM, AIM-120 AMRAAM, IRIS-T and in the future MBDA Meteor
* Air-to-Ground missiles: AGM-84 Harpoon, AGM-88 HARM, ALARMs, Storm Shadow (AKA "Scalp EG"), Brimstone, Taurus, Penguin and in the future AGM Armiger
* Bombs: Paveway 2, Paveway 3, Enhanced Paveway, JDAM, HOPE/HOSBO
* Laser designator, e.g. LITENING pod

Good Points:
-For a PESA radar, CAPTOR is pretty impressive
-It is, in fact, pretty light. Which fits squarely into the requirements of which competition?
-It has supercruise. I don't think that any of the other toys in this competition have that.
-It's in full, reliable production. Order and they'll start shipping pretty soon.

Bad points:
-It has some RCS reductions, but still isn't stealth.
-The accompanying Meteor missile that's supposed to compliment it isn't quite out yet.
-How well would it mesh with the Su-30 MKI's systems?

Final Word
It's definitely a contender. It's been sold and is in full production for other countries, another order would definitely work for the Indians. It's a good performer and fits nicely into the niche. If the Indians can attach the weapons they've got and make it mesh properly, it could definitely work.

Tomorrow, The JAS39 Gripen and maybe the F-16 Block 70. It's really difficult to find stats on the new Fighting Falcon.
 
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but i think an alternate condition which is india's israel connection....

indiansmust definitely try to equip some israeli tech onto these m/c to make it differfent in a kind of its own...like what they did with Sukhoi's

now which aircraft gives this option to indians......(never forget the 50% offset condition and reliable partner.....)


:)


i assume indians will go for Mikoyan35.....

but only thing which i am unable to pick is the "China Factor"

If china factor comes into play than i see a US aircraft with israeli/indian aveonics.........so that indians can get a superior technology which chinese can never have acccess too.....than it can be super hornet or F16's modified with indian/israeli aveonics.....:)
 
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:hitwall:
Man great, u mean a few Star fighter changed everything, wake up, or u think those first gen AAM changed everything?Why the hell we have to explain to every Indian that IAF was doomed in 65, accept it, F-104 had induced some kinda terror in heart of IAF

it was not 75 it was 71 :hitwall:

Do u remember an F-86 shooting down a MiG-21, u think F-104 was the only asset in 71 with PAF.... have some sense

Mam F-86 shot how many mig21 out of how many? And are you sure F-86 shot mig21 instead of mig21 shot himself? Hehe. Anyway mam i wanted to ask to all how many people vote for F-16IN and wants india to buy it? i bet 99.99percent our neighbours wants india should pick american jet fighters mam. Once india pick american jet fighters then there would be huge party and yep not in india but in enemys camp hehe.
 
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what u want to shoot now girl...(no offence :) meant ).......... a typhoon or mikoyan...:)..................really if u want too............. wait for sometime....:)....else u come to paris. it is a cool place love on the air everwhere no fighting.........:)


Salut, le francais, je suis content de mon pays :D :pakistan:
 
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gUYS why are u debating upon 71 war!!

Results are well known.....

Talk about present deal
 
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if you guys dont understand english:
bien, nous avons accès à Google Translator ainsi de tout homme sera à la hauteur, mais tenons-nous mieux à l'anglais qui est la langue sur ce forum ...
c'est juste un conseil amical pour Emo-Girl et Notting Hill, je l'espère ou comprendre!

observe!

all i want to say is:
well we have acces to google translator so every one can match up but let us better stick to English which is the language on this forum...
it is just a friendly advice for Emo-Girl and Notting Hill, i hope ou understand!

regards!
 
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pfffft -- thats a lame way to impress a emo girl - dude !!!!

come back - hill-y bill-y , lets talk in global language - of english.

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btw - 17-Dec-71
MiG-21

29
Flt Lt Tejwant Singh C 716 Pasrur SD F-86 (F/L Maqsood Amir) POW

it says that.

and i doubt they will -lie about it.
 
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if you guys dont understand english:


all i want to say is:
well we have acces to google translator so every one can match up but let us better stick to English which is the language on this forum...
it is just a friendly advice for Emo-Girl and Notting Hill, i hope ou understand!

regards!

lol.. advice taken my friend.. :cheers:
 
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pfffft -- thats a lame way to impress a emo girl - dude !!!!

come back - hill-y bill-y , lets talk in global language - of english.

----------------------------------------

btw - 17-Dec-71
MiG-21

29
Flt Lt Tejwant Singh C 716 Pasrur SD F-86 (F/L Maqsood Amir) POW

it says that.

and i doubt they will -lie about it.




hey duhastmish , the irony is i had no clue i said that in french to impress her :what:.. lol.. man 'o' man .. this is funny.. if i thought it would be perceived that way i would hav said sumthing in italian or even spanish.. that would have been much more romantic .. but jokes apart .. hill-y bill-y is on the ground.. just waitin for his julia roberts.. well a younger julia would do just fine.. now i think we should all return to the guntalk aka MRCA competition... and yeaa btw .. french too is a global lang albeit not spoken in many countries as english but that doesn't mean it is not.. :cheers:
 
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lol.. advice taken my friend.. :cheers:

i appreciate it and am reall happy about it!! :tup:

and well for duhastmish, friend i gues it was a bit too harsh. it was nothing about impressing anyone, specially with the google translation tool, the inspiring touch of such littel things have far gone now,,,moreover i guess it was emo who reply in french to a general post by nothing hill.
you offene to you Emo_girl, i hope you will take it the light way!!
anyway let us get back to topic,

regards!
 
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