MRCA Competition-threat to PAF?

[zeeshuisb]

russia and chaina is in the same block (SCO) against america and NATO and they are convincing other countries like pakistan and india to join the SCO

 

[zeeshuisb]

it is not the matter of who is far and who is behind

 

[Moscow]

btw some russian sourse say that chinese 5th generation programe is ahead of russian.


sir to be honest only the us have a 5 th gen plane, the russians have the 5th gen components but no plane, the chinese do not have 5 th gen components and no plane at all .
thanx

 

[zeeshuisb]

moscow

did u read the article airborne laser i need ur comments on it

http://www.defence.pk/forums/weapons-club/19333-airborne-laser.html

 

[Super Falcon]

what about our comments so you dont feel and rate us as sir moscow

 

[Shiny Capstar]

i am saying again and again that india will not go for typhon or rafale or gripen or any american jet

okay check this out

DERA study

Britain’s Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (now split into QinetiQ and DSTL) did an evaluation in 1994 (simulation based on the available data) comparing the Typhoon with some other modern fighters in how well they performed against an expected adversary aircraft, the Sukhoi Su-35. Due to the lack of information gathered on the 5th generation combat aircraft, the inability to take into account advances in avionics and weapons now fitted to the fighters tested, and lack of knowledge on the capabilities of the Su-35 during the time of this study it is not meant to be considered official and its results should be taken with a pinch of salt.

The study used real pilots flying the JOUST system of networked simulators. Various western aircraft supposed data were put in simulated combat against the Su-35. The results were:

Aircraft Odds vs. Su-35
Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor 10.1 : 1
Eurofighter Typhoon 4.5 : 1
Dassault Rafale C 1 : 1
McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle 0.8 : 1
Boeing F/A-18+ 0.4 : 1
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18C 0.3 : 1
General Dynamics F-16C 0.3 : 1

These results mean, for example, that in simulated combat, 4.5 Su-35s were shot down for every Typhoon lost. Missiles such as the KS-172 may be intended for large targets and not fighters, but their impact on a long range BVR engagement needs to be factored in.

The "F/A-18+" in the study was apparently not the current F/A-18E/F, but an improved version. All the western aircraft in the simulation were using an older version of the AMRAAM missile, except the Rafale which was using the MICA missile. This does not reflect the likely long-term air-to-air armament of Eurofighters (as well as Rafales), which will ultimately be equipped with the longer-range MBDA Meteor (while carrying the AMRAAM as an interim measure).

That evaluation was using a worst case (from the Western view) Su-35, incorporating levels of tech that have not been incorporated into the actual aircraft.

 

[zeeshuisb]

guys i just need the advantages and dis of airborne laser / technical side and cost analysis

 

[zeeshuisb]

thats what they are saying Shiny Capstar

DERA study

Britain’s Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (now split into QinetiQ and DSTL) did an evaluation in 1994 (simulation based on the available data) comparing the Typhoon with some other modern fighters in how well they performed against an expected adversary aircraft, the Sukhoi Su-35. Due to the lack of information gathered on the 5th generation combat aircraft, the inability to take into account advances in avionics and weapons now fitted to the fighters tested, and lack of knowledge on the capabilities of the Su-35 during the time of this study it is not meant to be considered official and its results should be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[zeeshuisb]

what about our comments so you dont feel and rate us as sir moscow

why not super falcon. YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME

 

[Shiny Capstar]

thats what they are saying Shiny Capstar

DERA study

Britain’s Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (now split into QinetiQ and DSTL) did an evaluation in 1994 (simulation based on the available data) comparing the Typhoon with some other modern fighters in how well they performed against an expected adversary aircraft, the Sukhoi Su-35. Due to the lack of information gathered on the 5th generation combat aircraft, the inability to take into account advances in avionics and weapons now fitted to the fighters tested, and lack of knowledge on the capabilities of the Su-35 during the time of this study it is not meant to be considered official and its results should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Yes but that is often taken to mean that they were using a less capable flanker model than the 35 for the evaluation. Which they were not.

 

[Shiny Capstar]

India is not getting full TOT for any of the radar avionics. LM and Boeing have spent more money developing the radar and the technology than the whole cost of the Indian MMRCA tender. You get the radars, you install them. That is the extent of the ToT. Boeing and LM are not in the situation that Dassault is (where they cannot find enough customers to recover the cost of their investments thus they offer everything on the table). I would even say that even with Rafale, India is not getting ToT on key technologies such as their future AESA radar and the SPECTRA ECM suit. There are industry secrets to be maintained.

The French said they would give full ToT on what the Indians would get, including the AESA radar. The SPECTRA suite isn't on the table even for just supply and not ToT as it is forbidden to be exported by the French Government.

 

[zeeshuisb]

they were using the flight simulators to campare the SU-35 with expected weapons system and avionics

 

[Shiny Capstar]

they were using the flight simulators to campare the SU-35 with expected weapons system and avionics

But they were using worst case scenario (from the Western PoV) weapon systems and avionics, the systems on the Su-35 aren't as capable as those modelled. Some of the new systems for the Western fighters weren't incorporated into the evaluation either, older versions of the AMRAAM for example.

 

[zeeshuisb]

your right Shiny Capstar

 

[zeeshuisb]

su 35 is far more capable