Most Pakistanis hate Afghani namak harams

[TMA]

The way to bring prosperity to Afghan is by way of CPEC. We can share the bounties of CPEC with everyone.

The way to gain control over Afghan territory is a piecewise fashion. Here is a simple rule: if fire comes on us from any direction, or we find insurgents trying to cross over from any area, we simply take over the area under the pretext of maintaining security. The Afghan government should be apprised beforehand of this intention.

Once an area is under Pakistani control, the immediate steps must be gaining confidence of the local population. Impress upon them that they are now safe from terrorists and American bombings. Provide them means of livelihood and open access to rest of Pakistan. If the area is under populated, bring in the Afghan refugees and honourably settle them in this area. Raise LEAs amongst the local population. Install a system of governance that respects their wishes.

We need to bring along China, Saudi Arabia, and Russia into this. We can't do this alone, but under the CPEC umbrella, we can share the bounties with our neighbours.

If you are concerned about finances, here are the options: an actual two front, physical war with Afghanistan and India at the same time, or a preemptive strike on Afghanistan. We don't have the finances to deal with either. But in one case, we can plan and execute at our will, while in the other, the war will be imposed by the enemy at the most inopportune time.

Look, here is how you solve real world problems. When looking for the solution, find the best possible solution, disregarding any constraints. Now you can see what the best unconstrained solution looks like, start adding constraints and see how the solution gets modified. At this point, you have the ability to prioritize the constraints. You might add one, and see how that affects finances (for example). Compare that with some other constraint. This gives a natural priority between constraints.

Tell me, do you agree that IF Pakistan had the resources, the preemptive solution would be the best solution?

If Pakistan had the economic power then in theory yes. BUT and it is a big BUT. It all depends on the Afghan people in those territories under Pakistani control. That is like the wind. Even if Pakistan had the financial and political means all of this could be wasted if the "wind" changes.

In practice Pakistan may have the military means to acquire border regions but to maintain and defend them...no.
NATO and Kabul will wreak havoc in those regions but supporting insurgents. They will bleed Pakistan with a thousand cuts and Pakistan will have no moral support from any of her neighbours unless Pakistan gains the go ahead with China and Russia. I do not think they will support Pakistan that much.

Pakistan has trouble defending Pakistani regions from US drone strikes. Pakistan has trouble gaining the confidence of Pakistanis.

Of course Pakistan needs China, Iran and Russia on board and with CPEC but always remember money does not buy love.

For your plan to even have a whiff of success...NATO must leave. For your plan to have a whiff of success Pakistan must herself be economically independent and stable. And even then it depends upon the Afghan people. Are they dependable?

So realistically containment is the better option. Repatriate Afghans refugees. Have a closed border. Make it hard for NATO in Afghanistan. Gain the support of Russia and China for this.
Pakistan will not face a conventional two front war. The ANA do not have this capability and the US knows this. They are working on hybrid warfare via the Western Border and Bharat is doing what she always does.

 

[Kabira]

if it doesnt it should....i think it does..i have seen indians get nationality on marrying a pakistani women

Wrong, they don’t. Law is very clear about it. This is why you don’t see many Pakistani women marrying afghanis unless they may have gotten forged CNIC anyway.

 

[CriticalThought]

If Pakistan had the economic power then in theory yes. BUT and it is a big BUT. It all depends on the Afghan people in those territories under Pakistani control. That is like the wind. Even if Pakistan had the financial and political means all of this could be wasted if the "wind" changes.

In practice Pakistan may have the military means to acquire border regions but to maintain and defend them...no.
NATO and Kabul will wreak havoc in those regions but supporting insurgents. They will bleed Pakistan with a thousand cuts and Pakistan will have no moral support from any of her neighbours unless Pakistan gains the go ahead with China and Russia. I do not think they will support Pakistan that much.

Pakistan has trouble defending Pakistani regions from US drone strikes. Pakistan has trouble gaining the confidence of Pakistanis.

Of course Pakistan needs China, Iran and Russia on board and with CPEC but always remember money does not buy love.

For your plan to even have a whiff of success...NATO must leave. For your plan to have a whiff of success Pakistan must herself be economically independent and stable. And even then it depends upon the Afghan people. Are they dependable?

So realistically containment is the better option. Repatriate Afghans refugees. Have a closed border. Make it hard for NATO in Afghanistan. Gain the support of Russia and China for this.
Pakistan will not face a conventional two front war. The ANA do not have this capability and the US knows this. They are working on hybrid warfare via the Western Border and Bharat is doing what she always does.

The ANA can be propped up with Indian soldiers and equipment with complete support and blessings of USA. What happens then? They can have ISIS to increase their numbers. What happens then? There is no denying that this will happen. It is a question of when, not if.

 

[PakSword]

I’m was only responding to hatred of others against punjab when I said that, which is common theme in Pakistan. Anyway not interested in giving certificates of patriotism. Every Pakistani is patriotic unless proven otherwise in court.

Every ethnic denomination living in Pakistan has some miscreants.. and they spread hate about others. Urdu speakers have some.. who always talk about Punjabis.. Baluchistan has people who are against Punjabis and Pashtuns. Pashtuns has PTM which is anti Punjab.. Sindhis have some fools who are against Punjabis and Urdu speakers.. Some Saraikis are against Punjabis..

It doesn't mean that they represent their community..

All communities have Anti Pakistan members in them as well.. But they don't represent the whole communities..

This is what I have been telling you..

To tell you the truth, what I see between Punjabis and Urdu speakers in Karachi is desperation to progress over the other.. and this is called professional jealousy in some offices.. Because these are the only two communities which are holding high positions in Karachi in different industries etc..

But in Karachi, people don't hate each other in most of the neighborhoods and offices. And this is what Karachi represents.. specially after PTI has won from this city..

 

[TMA]

The ANA can be propped up with Indian soldiers and equipment with complete support and blessings of USA. What happens then? They can have ISIS to increase their numbers. What happens then? There is no denying that this will happen. It is a question of when, not if.

Bharat is not going prop up ANA with her soldiers.
What Bharat will do is what they already did.
Prop up insurgents. Stoke up ethnic strife.
A closed border will protect against this.
The resentment for Pakistan will not go away unless Pakistan "returns" back Afghan land. Having an open border in the past did not reduce resentment.

Afghanistan is the same to Pakistan as Bharat is. Just weaker. Why does not Pakistan have an open border between Bharat? Families and communities were ripped apart when Punjab was divided.

Let us say Pakistan take over a border region Do you think Kabul and NATO and Bharat will say OK, fair enough.?
They will use this as another way to generate antiPakistan sentiment in the world. Do you think that Russia and China will support Pakistan. Maybe if China also takes over border regions as well then Pakistan could also take over border regions.
And Also your plan may work for the birder region but no way will it work for the rest of Afghanistan.

 

[CriticalThought]

Bharat is not going prop up ANA with her soldiers.
What Bharat will do is what they already did.
Prop up insurgents. Stoke up ethnic strife.
A closed border will protect against this.
The resentment for Pakistan will not go away unless Pakistan "returns" back Afghan land. Having an open border in the past did not reduce resentment.

Afghanistan is the same to Pakistan as Bharat is. Just weaker. Why does not Pakistan have an open border between Bharat? Families and communities were ripped apart when Punjab was divided.

Let us say Pakistan take over a border region Do you think Kabul and NATO and Bharat will say OK, fair enough.?
They will use this as another way to generate antiPakistan sentiment in the world. Do you think that Russia and China will support Pakistan. Maybe if China also takes over border regions as well then Pakistan could also take over border regions.
And Also your plan may work for the birder region but no way will it work for the rest of Afghanistan.

I never said take over just a border region. Once a part of territory is assimilated into Pakistan, the same rules apply to the next patch of land. It's a process of continual accession. I would support the same with India if it was possible.

 

[TMA]

if it doesnt it should....i think it does..i have seen indians get nationality on marrying a pakistani women

This is not in the interests of Pakistan.
Afghan men marrying into Pakistan does not prove their loyalty to Pakistan.
Kabira is correct.
Afghanistan both Pukhtoon and non Pukhtoon reject the border. They claim Pakistan is occupying Afghan territory.
Indeed the Afghan Pukhtoons feels this the most. This anti-Pakistan feeling is from 1947 not 1979 or 1992.
Pakistanis need to remember that Afghanistan is just another Bharat for Pakistan, but smaller and weaker.

I never said take over just a border region. Once a part of territory is assimilated into Pakistan, the same rules apply to the next patch of land. It's a process of continual accession. I would support the same with India if it was possible.

To assimilate the people is the issue. Pakistan has not fully assimilated Pakistanis and you are talking about anti-Pakistan Afghans. In practice it will be a blunder.

 

[CriticalThought]

This is not in the interests of Pakistan.
Afghan men marrying into Pakistan does not prove their loyalty to Pakistan.
Kabira is correct.
Afghanistan both Pukhtoon and non Pukhtoon reject the border. They claim Pakistan is occupying Afghan territory.
Indeed the Afghan Pukhtoons feels this the most. This anti-Pakistan feeling is from 1947 not 1979 or 1992.
Pakistanis need to remember that Afghanistan is just another Bharat for Pakistan, but smaller and weaker.


To assimilated the people is the issue. Pakistan has not fully assimilated Pakistanis and you are talking about anti-Pakistan Afghans. In practice it will be a blunder.

Our job is to make the effort. Turning it into results is up to Allah the Almighty. We should not fear the enormity of the task. Rather, we need to plan properly.

Sometimes all it takes to win hearts is a sincere smile.

 

[TMA]

Our job is to make the effort. Turning it into results is up to Allah the Almighty. We should not fear the enormity of the task. Rather, we need to plan properly.

Sometimes all it takes to win hearts is a sincere smile.

Pakistan has given many sincere smiles. What country let millions of Afghans come and stay as refugees?

Allah does not expect us to be fools. A Muslim is not bitten from the same hole twice....

 

[CriticalThought]

Pakistan has given many sincere smiles. What country let millions of Afghans come and stay as refugees?

Allah does not expect us to be fools. A Muslim is not bitten from the same hole twice....

I won't argue with you about who hates whom. I am here to present the argument that with proper planning, execution and Allah's help, every thing is within the realms of possibility.

It is a reflection on our limited minds, when faced with huge problems, we hang on to the easiest solution even if it leads to disaster, and dream up specioius arguments to support it. There is an underlying lack of confidence, a fear of the unknown, and deep seated insecurities which result in such a position.