Most French people think Islam is incompatible with nation's values: PM

[T-Rex]

I agree once again with you if the burqa is ban in the law of France then it should not wear by any Muslim woman, she should use alternate such as chadar doopata etc.
The real talk is that if the Syrian man is involved in rough activities in Paris why they target the Muslims of the hole world, it is injustices.
Other side if France is involved in the war in Libya the Libyan people will react against France.Then France will blame to the all Muslim communities in France or Europe. It is wrong and injustice.

Why is it that in their land their law but in our lands their laws? How are these western hypocrites going to react if we force the western people to wear hijab in our lands?

 

[barbarosa]

Why is it that in their land their law but in our lands their laws? How are these western hypocrites going to react if we force the western people to wear hijab in our lands?

It is the reality of today that our secular people are more extremist than the western, our own Muslim secular brother are calling name to Islam in our own home country for the cost of some dollars.

 

[T-Rex]

It is the reality of today that our secular people are more extremist than the western, our own Muslim secular brother are calling name to Islam in our own home country for the cost of some dollars.

Whose failure is it? Why can't we hammer the table and say our land our law? Hasn't the time come yet?

 

[Taygibay]

Bottom line no mUslim should chose to move or live in France.

Unless there are different Muslims in Ummah and that some value the multicultural & secular values of a public environment for some reason.
I know you were not expressing your own point of view there but just answer those you "quoted" that, maybe ...
it is exactly their controlling attitude that is driving good if different Muslims away to those secular lands?
In general, just remind them how illogical it is to disrespect something you haven't tried, esp. freedom!

I see this as the thorn in Islam's side that so many have "rule all" ideas they want to impose.
In that they differ little from ISIS and its renewed caliphate. They're just control freaks of god!

Here we go another Anti Muslim hate thread created by an European. @WebMaster please keep a check on these threads. These threads add nothing to discussion except hatred. These Europeans want every one to believe that despite their violent wars against Muslims states they are not violent rather they are the victims then you have these iconic Hindu cheerleaders from across the border and of course Muslim people defending their stance on all issues. These threads yield NOTHING.

No, Djinn! I'm sorry but no! Mostly because this is not an anti-Muslim thread by any stretch of the imagination!
If anything, it is an anti-French thread. It is disheartening to hear Manuel Valls trying a mix of his populist, in
control style to defend our Islamic compatriots from a perceived public opinion.

I say perceived because it is not what I as a citizen noticed to be factual.
There is a problem with a forgotten class of Muslim immigrants that needs
to be addressed as regard secularism. But that hides the millions* of well
adjusted Muslims, some of whom work for the government at all levels. It
expresses a polarized view useful to further Mr. Valls political agenda.

It's so simple : In France, in public, you do your thing and let others do theirs.
In private, you can say, pray and act as you want within the limits of the law.

That's all folks!
Muslims that cannot juggle it thus would feel constrained or unhappy, true!
Just as a wine drinking, gauloiseries spewing, often irreverent & always free-
thinking French person would under strict Sharia law environment.

In both cases, they just live in the wrong country!
Majority rule will do them in ... eventually!

Great day to all, Tay.

* Yes, millions since 1963! Think of all those girls that married French guys
and whose kids and grandkids are now seen as French and not Maghrébins.
Integration always succeeds in part.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Let us take this moment and cover our heads and sit in church to ban Muslim head coverings
It is against our values

You know I like sleek hair style etc so a little flexibility is ok no big deal

However I think alot of Muslims French are quite patriotic

Lovely ladies and all still quite Muslim - 100% french

• Deny someone University Education , if they wear head gear (Wrong)
• Deny someone Job if they wear head gear (Wrong)
• Guys in 50s sitting and planning to make laws to punish women (Wrong)

It is an old debate in France but when you dig deep the core is empty

Every one wants to do same thing Muslim in french or other members

a) Speak french little bit of English
b) Get jobs and have home
c) Have family
d) Buy french designer clothes

Universal desire

I personally am big fan of French national team due to different talent from Africa/French lands
and hopefully things normalize in France

 

[barbarosa]

Whose failure is it? Why can't we hammer the table and say our land our law? Hasn't the time come yet?

If we look at our political set up we will found not the Prime minister Presidents of our countries, they are totally the agents of the west,remember the event of remond davis in Pakistan.

 

[Spectre]

I wonder why the quantum of adjustment difficulties are much greater (or is it not?) for Muslim immigrants vis a vis immigrants of other faith from developing/under-developed countries to the Europe? AFAIK Hindus/Jews/Sikhs etc can be as staunch a believer and conservative as Muslims with their own idiosyncrasies.

If would be nice to have statistical study pointing out major reasons for divergence from avg immigrant. It can't all be negative perception.

@Taygibay @Vauban @Kaptaan

 

[Taygibay]

I wonder why the quantum of adjustment difficulties are much greater (or is it not?) for Muslim immigrants vis a vis immigrants of other faith from developing/under-developed countries to the Europe?

I'm not sure they are, my friend! We have to consider the sources of immigrations.
Jews were forced immigrants for centuries. The problematic is very particular but
they has to adapt to survive. Sikhs face different problems due to culture and fit in
some Western societies ( Canada for ex. ) better than others. But both them and
Hindus are from natural immigration, i.e. they went there because they wanted to!

I'll bet that most Muslims in the West, by numbers alone, were forced to im/e-migrate.
That alone is an attenuating difference.

Then, there is one answer to your question : structure of Islam as relates to power.
The Fiqh / Ulama / state relationship is singular to every nation, locally embodied.
And severance of the link is a cause of problems ( Arab Spring for ex. ). The absence
of a preeminent constituted body is paramount. By comparision, the Christian Church,
and its various sects and adaptations, mostly runs as a very structured organization
making it identical to a democratic government's own and thus better able to relate to it.
At that level, that considered, I'd venture it to be a management problem mostly.

Within the Ummah, it is a religious one with cultural overtones.

That's a rather important dichotomy, wouldn't you say?

All the best, Tay.

 

[Spectre]

I'm not sure they are, my friend! We have to consider the sources of immigrations.
Jews were forced immigrants for centuries. The problematic is very particular but
they has to adapt to survive. Sikhs face different problems due to culture and fit in
some Western societies ( Canada for ex. ) better than others. But both them and
Hindus are from natural immigration, i.e. they went there because they wanted to!

I'll bet that most Muslims in the West, by numbers alone, were forced to im/e-migrate.
That alone is an attenuating difference.

Then, there is one answer to your question : structure of Islam as relates to power.
The Fiqh / Ulama / state relationship is singular to every nation, locally embodied.
And severance of the link is a cause of problems ( Arab Spring for ex. ). The absence
of a preeminent constituted body is paramount. By comparision, the Christian Church,
and its various sects and adaptations, mostly runs as a very structured organization
making it identical to a democratic government and thus better able to relate to it.
At that level, that considered, I'd venture it to be a management problem mostly.

Within the Ummah, it is a religious one with cultural overtones.

That's a rather important dichotomy, wouldn't you say?

All the best, Tay.

I don't think the need/want theory holds much water infact it suggests exactly the opposite but the second point regarding the severance of linkages from the state which in most cases is indistinguishable from theocracy unlike secular nations certainly is a thought to ponder. However the conclusions I draw from it is not very pleasant as it suggests solution lies in alternative legal/govt structure something like special dispensation for Muslims in Indian legal system as opposed to unified code most western countries adopt.

 

[Gibbs]

Let us take this moment and cover our heads and sit in church to ban Muslim head coverings
It is against our values

First that's pics of clergy not millions of lay people, So that pic is null and void to this discussion

Second nobody is asking to ban head coverings, Not Europeans or any other non Muslim majority nations, But the archaic tribal face veils..

That are dehumanizing and a security thread.. Those kind of traditions does not belong to neither should be accepted in modern nations.. Even more erudite Muslim scholars accept the Burka has nothing to do with the real teachings of Islam but archaic tribal traditions that's been propagated by extremists especially wahhabi's emanating from Saudi Arabia

If people want to keep practicing such dark age oppressive practices stay in countries that allow such things, Don't try to impose it on others

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

First that's pics of clergy not millions of lay people, So that pic is null and void to this discussion

Second nobody is asking to ban head coverings, Not Europeans or any other non Muslim majority nations, But the archaic tribal face veils..

That are dehumanizing and a security thread.. Those kind of traditions does not belong to neither should be accepted in modern nations.. Even more erudite Muslim scholars accept the Burka has nothing to do with the real teachings of Islam but archaic tribal traditions that's been propagated by extremists especially wahhabi's emanating from Saudi Arabia

If people want to keep practicing such dark age oppressive practices stay in countries that allow such things, Don't try to impose it on others

Well I was trying to counter "the argument" our values France are different then Muslim values. Trying to show how catholic values of covering hair is same as what the Muslim ladies do. France has a heavy Catholic church base

The example is 100% valid. Both values are quite similar.

Muslims are never a security threat, you sort of are generalizing

Well I think since it is not your faith may be you should focus on your faith ? Mind your own business perhaps

When, people bring real arguments folks start to say oh it is only for "Burka" folks in France do not wear Burka. French ban is not on Burka it is on head gear (hijab)

Look , french ladies are wearing reasonable hijab part of their faith just like ladies in French church cover their heads

French ladies are wearing it themselves , Gibbs they are not asking you to wear it
But you are welcomed to try it out

Some girls in Pakistan wear hijab and some don't I don't see a problem

There are bigger issues in world


French painting of Mary, mother of Jesus - wearing the head cover (Hijab)
Completely out of her own will I might say

There are bigger issues in world

E.g Sierra Leon

Daily Job search for metal in contaminated water

They Export Diamonds

Why do you think stuff like Ebola is brewing in some places ?

Becasue people don't focus on real issues

 

[Gibbs]

Muslims are never a security threat, you sort of are generalizing

Not really i wasn't talking about Muslims been a security threat, But the face veil or for that matter any thing that prohibits identification of individuals, So dont try to argue out of context

Well I think since it is not your faith may be you should focus on your faith ? Mind your own business perhaps

This is a open forum, And as such any subject is open as long as it's withing forum rules, In any case there was no discussion of faith here

When, people bring real arguments folks start to say oh it is only for "Burka" folks in France do not wear Burka

In France they dont wear the Burka because the French made it illegal, Although i think this particular politician is looking to score brownie points going further but then again thats what politicians do.. But under that rhetoric there are certainly valid reasons too be insecure

There are bigger issues in world

Well that's something i would agree on

 

[UKBengali]

Irrelevant France has just won a submarine contract worth 2 years of Bangladesh's entire state budget revenues.

OK - so what is the big deal about this? France will not get all the money and it will be spread out over many years in any case. BD government revenue has tripled in the last decade and should do the same over the next decade - time will sort out BD's poverty whereas France already has had it's day and is going backwards now.

So many people are butt-hurt at my comment over this little country called France that is in the last generation over any relevance on this planet. They can be as bigoted as they can in their irrelevance.

 

[T-72M1]

France already has had it's day and is going backwards now.

wow, that'd be rich coming from anyone in the subcontinent but from Bangladesh... LOL

but I do agree that if they continue to be PC about their disastrous immigration/refugee policies and failed 'multiculturalism' experiment, they will go backward, backward all the way to the 7th century.

 

[Vergennes]

OK - so what is the big deal about this? France will not get all the money and it will be spread out over many years in any case. BD government revenue has tripled in the last decade and should do the same over the next decade - time will sort out BD's poverty whereas France already has had it's day and is going backwards now.

So many people are butt-hurt at my comment over this little country called France that is in the last generation over any relevance on this planet. They can be as bigoted as they can in their irrelevance.

Our defence budget (representing 1,5% of our GDP ) is already 2x Bangladesh's government spendings.
Central government spending is higher than Bangladesh's GDP.
Bangladesh has first,a budget that is half of our defence budget,and has a budget deficit of nearly 5%. LOL.

Should we believe that a backward country like Bangladesh will become more relevant and important than a €2,2Tn country ?
And it's good if your government can reduce the number of people earning less than 1$ per day....
Because we won't continue to grow (higher GDP,higher wages...) improve our public services,infrastructures etc ?


@flamer84

Such delusional members,are so funny. But the worst is that they live in the backward,irrelevant West.... enjoying high quality life....