Mosque attacked with petrol bomb in UK

[temujin]

It's not about criminals at all, but scapegoats.
If the "colored" immigrants are not there to look down upon, just who do you think the locals will find to hate?



Once again, the situation with Muslims is not unique. This has been the pattern with many immigrant and minority groups throughout history. Since you live in the UK, I don't need to remind you about the prejudice against the Irish, Romanians, gypsies, etc.

Do you not find it interesting that the stereotypes against these minority groups exactly mirror the stereotypes held by the elites towards the lower classes?

- they breed too much.
- they are lazy.
- they are uneducated and uncultured.
- they have strong criminal tendencies.
- they take more from the system than they give.
- they create crime-infested ghetto areas and no-go zones.
- etc. etc.

Every negative stereotype that the elites hold about the lower classes is in turn projected by them towards even lower scapegoats.

Despite accurately identifying stereotypes commonly associated with lower classes in most societies, you nevertheless fail to explain why many Muslims, having voluntarily migrated to the West invariably find themselves in the lowest strata within their host societies, thereby creating the perception of fitting the very stereotypes you've listed?

 

[flamer84]

Like most things, it is not black or white.

1) There are aspects of the current Western antipathy towards Muslims that may be coming due to racism against all non Westerners or colored people.

2) There are aspects which are due to the retaliation against the specific actions by radical Muslims and the perceived or real Islamic hostility towards the West.

3) Some may even subscribe to the clash of civilization mindset.

It is a matter of conjecture or individual perception as to which part is how much significant. Some people may want to assume that it is all (or mainly) due to the first, some may believe that it is mainly due to the second.

Given the facts that we can all see, I would lean towards the second option.

Exactly,that's why I think I am objective about this,me not beeing a "full westerner" I can relate to people when it comes to racism,having even experienced racism.
Some europeans might be racist but it's not like the 70's anymore.It's simple,you can't just go to a country ,blow things up,live on welfare,riot in the streets and not expect a backlash.This is true for muslims as it is true for east europeans that's why i've said that all leaches and wrong doers must be kicked out.
If a romanian steals this will shed a negative opinion on the romanian community.
If a muslim commits an act of terror this will have a backlash against the muslim community.It's simple and I for one can't blame the hosts.

 

[livingdead]

I have friends in England(working romanians),do read english papers online on a daily basis....most know the difference,and the difference is there to see,you must be blind.

if you can read English, you should understand I am talking about general perception, not saying it is true in any sense. I did not say I believe romanians are such people. I dont have any data to say that.
But yes, in my observation, almost all beggars in UK are either romanians or considered romanians.

 

[flamer84]

YOU say "Europe", but the next guy would say "Western Europe", or "Britain", meaning Eastern Europeans should be excluded.



I guess I didn't convey my point.

The issue isn't the specific acts you mentioned; ANY group can be demonized and stigmatized by focusing on their misdeeds.

Do you really think it would be hard for the media to make front page news every time some Romanian gang was implicated in prostitution, drugs, etc? Every time some Romanians tried to sneak into the country, the media would put big headlines about the threat from "Romanian invasion"?

Hysteria can be manufactured.

Then why don't you agree with me that muslims immigrants living on welfare,those who spread hate should be kicked out? It will be beneficial for the muslim community in the long run.
I want all romanians that don't work or commit crimes in the West kicked back to Romania.

if you can read English, you should understand I am talking about general perception, not saying it is true in any sense. I did not say I believe romanians are such people. I dont have any data to say that.
But yes, in my observation, almost all beggars in UK are either romanians or considered romanians.

Beggars are all ethnic gypsies,it's not even a exageration,they have a monoply on that trade.Yes,they have romanian citizenship,but even they don't consider themselves romanians for them it's just a historical accident.They see migration as an important part of gypsie life.

 

[Vinod2070]

Exactly,that's why I think I am objective about this,me not beeing a "full westerner" I can relate to people when it comes to racism,having even experienced racism.
Some europeans might be racist but it's not like the 70's anymore.It's simple,you can't just go to a country ,blow things up,live on welfare,riot in the streets and not expect a backlash.This is true for muslims as it is true for east europeans that's why i've said that all leaches and wrong doers must be kicked out.
If a romanian steals this will shed a negative opinion on the romanian community.
If a muslim commits an act of terror this will have a backlash against the muslim community.It's simple and I for one can't blame the hosts.

I agree.

I think many people just find the sense of victim-hood comforting. It helps avoid all responsibility.

As it is, they are mostly helpless to do much even if they wanted to. It is almost an intractable problem in their own societies as well.

And then, some are actually (wittingly or unwittingly, mostly the former) accomplishes of the radical ones. They are the "denialists" and "Islamophobe" shouting brigade.

 

[Developereo]

Despite accurately identifying stereotypes commonly associated with lower classes in most societies, you nevertheless fail to explain why many Muslims, having voluntarily migrated to the West invariably find themselves in the lowest strata within their host societies, thereby creating the perception of fitting the very stereotypes you've listed?

I have never denied that some Muslim subcultures are in desperate need of a leadership upgrade into modernity. There is also the issue of local racism, which can not be denied. It is a combination of factors and there is no denying that Muslim leaders in these specific sub-communities share the blame.

The reason I differentiate the sub-communities is that there is absolutely nothing in common between the various communities, other than the label "Muslim". They are as distinct as the Anglicans from the Catholics or Easter Orthodox Christians.

 

[flamer84]

I have never denied that some Muslim subcultures are in desperate need of a leadership upgrade into modernity. There is also the issue of local racism, which can not be denied. It is a combination of factors and there is no denying that Muslim leaders in these specific sub-communities share the blame.

The reason I differentiate the sub-communities is that there is absolutely nothing in common between the various communities, other than the label "Muslim". They are as distinct as the Anglicans from the Catholics or Easter Orthodox Christians.

Well,many on this forum will disagree with you,they see themselves as one big "muslim Umah".
That guy killed the soldier because of western crimes in "muslim/our lands".If some muslims see things this way you can't really blame europeans for feeling the same.

 

[Vinod2070]

Well,many on this forum will disagree with you,they see themselves as one big "muslim Umah".
That guy killed the soldier because of western crimes in "muslim/our lands".If some muslims see things this way you can't really blame europeans for feeling the same.

That is the key.

You can't be a global Islamist by day and a "Westerner" by night.

You have to choose. Especially when the time to choose is upon us. When the two sides are so clearly on opposite sides.

 

[Developereo]

Then why don't you agree with me that muslims immigrants living on welfare,those who spread hate should be kicked out? It will be beneficial for the muslim community in the long run.
I want all romanians that don't work or commit crimes in the West kicked back to Romania.

ANYONE who abuses the welfare system should be punished. As a taxpayer, I really don't care if the person abusing is white, brown or black. The locals have no more right to leech than anyone else.

Same thing for spreading hatred. All hate speech -- especially one that promotes communal discord -- should be dealt with harshly. More so when it incites or condones violence.

 

[temujin]

I have never denied that some Muslim subcultures are in desperate need of a leadership upgrade into modernity. There is also the issue of local racism, which can not be denied. It is a combination of factors and there is no denying that Muslim leaders in these specific sub-communities share the blame.

The reason I differentiate the sub-communities is that there is absolutely nothing in common between the various communities, other than the label "Muslim". They are as distinct as the Anglicans from the Catholics or Easter Orthodox Christians.

Thank you...

 

[uzair ramay]

sad news,,,,i hope uk police will capture the person who did this ///

 

[Vinod2070]

The locals (or natives) do have more right to their country than immigrants. They are living in their own country!

Anyone claiming otherwise is living in his own imaginary world.

 

[flamer84]

YOU say "Europe", but the next guy would say "Western Europe", or "Britain", meaning Eastern Europeans should be excluded.

British,romanian,unfortunately we're all fair game.

Sheikh Omar Bakri: Romania may be the target of terrorist attacks

 

[Developereo]

Well,many on this forum will disagree with you,they see themselves as one big "muslim Umah".
That guy killed the soldier because of western crimes in "muslim/our lands".If some muslims see things this way you can't really blame europeans for feeling the same.

People need to differentiate between the causes and the remedies.

Addressing pet causes through political activism is fine; doing so with violence is not.

This applies to everybody.

 

[flamer84]

ANYONE who abuses the welfare system should be punished. As a taxpayer, I really don't care if the person abusing is white, brown or black. The locals have no more right to leech than anyone else.

Same thing for spreading hatred. All hate speech -- especially one that promotes communal discord -- should be dealt with harshly. More so when it incites or condones violence.

Wrong,if a state has welfare for its citizens,then they should enjoy it,it's their right,if you're an immigrant you must go there to work not to expect hand outs,like it or not immigrants are outsiders in the end.