More than 300 PAF Mirages & F-7s will be retired in future. A huge market indeed.

[zheng2]

Yes, but when it comes to China and Pakistan relations they can work around it when required. Check history.



We cannot afford it because it will be very easy target for IAF which enjoy

quali

and quality edge currently over PAF.

J-11D is the right option for that role as it can defend it self against posed threats.

AWE....you are right.

 

[Akasa]

PAKISTAN can build your own fighters like JF-17,why you put some aircrafts from other country.PAK is not India,pakistan can build jets.India buy jets.


it will,you see the chengdu aircraft is replacing the engines,that J-10C picture ,watch her ***.If you have the money,chengdu will sell you the jets.But now only PAF can have them

What does exporting Flankers have anything to do with the J-10C?

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Many on PDF don't believe that RAAD can hit targets at sea specially Indian members while its officially said by ISPR.

Raad is a truly versatile design. It has an indigenously designed and produced Anti-Ship seeker, the first of its kind in Pakistan. The same seeker can allow land attack with TERCOM/DSMAC and many other features for accurate navigation. Raad's conventional package has both Anti Ship warheads, and Kinetic energy penetrators for undertaking interdiction of fortified bunkers, etc. Anyone who would not believe, can't keep believe whatever they wish.

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

Raad is a truly versatile design. It has an indigenously designed and produced Anti-Ship seeker, the first of its kind in Pakistan. The same seeker can allow land attack with TERCOM/DSMAC and many other features for accurate navigation. Raad's conventional package has both Anti Ship warheads, and Kinetic energy penetrators for undertaking interdiction of fortified bunkers, etc. Anyone who would not believe, can't keep believe whatever they wish.

So my point is proved right with several comments in this thread that we can target a carrier with a stealth terrain hugging cruise missile. If a Mirage flying few feet above from sea level cannot be detected US Carrier then a stealth Ra'ad is surely a carrier killer in this scenario. Moreover, the nuclear warhead & standoff range are two important features.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

So my point is proved right with several comments in this thread that we can target a carrier with a stealth terrain hugging cruise missile. If a Mirage flying few feet above from sea level cannot be detected US Carrier then a stealth Ra'ad is surely a carrier killer in this scenario. Moreover, the nuclear warhead & standoff range are two important features.

One missile is never enough for a CVGN class vessel. You can get lucky and hit the magazine, but its not WWII. These missiles are used to disable ships, not sink them. To sink ships you need Torpedoes. Missiles do cause fires, which increased the mission abort probability of vessels, hence achieve area denial.

 

[Signalian]

Replacing aircraft on the basis of squadrons is not a good idea because it doesnt cover up attrition losses to provide depth and readily available aircraft in war instead of waiting for additional aircraft from china or other allies and secondly in war more ad-hoc squadrons can be formed with extra aircrafts to fulfil a multitude of roles as well as confuse enemy on PAF ORBAT whereas operating extra/ad-hoc squadrons in peacetime maybe costly and unnecessary. In the previous wars its observed that PAF prefers to conserve a/c for AD role and after that supports Army and Navy with its strike assets.
PAF may retire the Mirages III/V but may not sell them, instead put them in reserve but they will perform secondary roles when active in any war.
There has to be a long range dedicated strike fighter acquisition. There is no news of F-18, EF2K,Rafale etc so probably some other twin engined a/c may fulfil the role.

All PAF current aircraft not only lack range, be it JF-17 or F-16 but also loiter time. If these factors are catered for then the weapon payload becomes less. For a CAP in own airspace, IL-78 can keep the aircraft in air but for a strike role the limitations again kick in.

5th gen or Stealth aircraft like J-31 or J-20 again lack in weapon payload capacity unless the external pylons are used compromising stealth.

 

[A2Z]

So my point is proved right with several comments in this thread that we can target a carrier with a stealth terrain hugging cruise missile. If a Mirage flying few feet above from sea level cannot be detected US Carrier then a stealth Ra'ad is surely a carrier killer in this scenario. Moreover, the nuclear warhead & standoff range are two important features.

You are not wrong infact the senario you are describing happened in Falkland War when Argentinian Super Etendards fired exocet missiles in a similar manner and successfully achieved their target. However when we talk about exercises we have to keep in mind no one shows their complete strength so there are very high chances that the Mirages would have been detected and shot down if PAF tried such thing in war or even during peace time. In addition to this recently during another exercise a chinese Yuan class submarine came extremely close to US aircraft carrier, it was well within firing range but decide to come out of the water and reveal its presence. So does this mean US can't detect chinese submarines? No it shows that you don't reveal your true strength in such things.

However we cannot completely say that such a thing can't happen but before our Mirages attack AC the protection needs to be neutralized first.

 

[Quwa]

Raad is a truly versatile design. It has an indigenously designed and produced Anti-Ship seeker, the first of its kind in Pakistan. The same seeker can allow land attack with TERCOM/DSMAC and many other features for accurate navigation. Raad's conventional package has both Anti Ship warheads, and Kinetic energy penetrators for undertaking interdiction of fortified bunkers, etc. Anyone who would not believe, can't keep believe whatever they wish.

When one thinks about it, there really is no reason why the Ra'ad couldn't serve in the AShW role. The essentials between it and a standard AShM are the same except for the seeker (in that it needs to be radar guided for moving targets). It doesn't surprise me that Pakistan acquired that technology, even through indigenous means.

 

[Leviza]

You are not wrong infact the senario you are describing happened in Falkland War when Argentinian Super Etendards fired exocet missiles in a similar manner and successfully achieved their target. However when we talk about exercises we have to keep in mind no one shows their complete strength so there are very high chances that the Mirages would have been detected and shot down if PAF tried such thing in war or even during peace time. In addition to this recently during another exercise a chinese Yuan class submarine came extremely close to US aircraft carrier, it was well within firing range but decide to come out of the water and reveal its presence. So does this mean US can't detect chinese submarines? No it shows that you don't reveal your true strength in such things.

However we cannot completely say that such a thing can't happen but before our Mirages attack AC the protection needs to be neutralized first.

I agree with you to some extent that no one shows complete strengths in exercises which goes for both sides .. isn't it ?

 

[MastanKhan]

You are not wrong infact the senario you are describing happened in Falkland War when Argentinian Super Etendards fired exocet missiles in a similar manner and successfully achieved their target. However when we talk about exercises we have to keep in mind no one shows their complete strength so there are very high chances that the Mirages would have been detected and shot down if PAF tried such thing in war or even during peace time. In addition to this recently during another exercise a chinese Yuan class submarine came extremely close to US aircraft carrier, it was well within firing range but decide to come out of the water and reveal its presence. So does this mean US can't detect chinese submarines? No it shows that you don't reveal your true strength in such things.

However we cannot completely say that such a thing can't happen but before our Mirages attack AC the protection needs to be neutralized first.

Hi,

I would disagree----. Actually the excercizes are done on actual wartime scenarios---and come real close to combat. So---the mirages had the target lit up and that would happen in the war as well under those circumstances----.

Similar thing happened with the Pakistani submarine during a similar wargame----in the 70's.

It waited for the U S carrier----after awhile---the carrier captain got restless as he could not find the sub----and took off at flank speed----the Pakistani sub was waiting below----it could get a firing solution-----but looking the reaction f the carrier captain it just sat there---out of fear that if the captain got real mad and dropped some bad stuff in the water---they would be done-----.

Bottomline---if pakistan did not challenge the U S enough---the U S won't do any excercizes with Pakistan of that level.

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

We changed the direction of debate to "aircraft carrier hunting". I think everyone should stay on topic about procurement of future technology for PAF. JF-17 Block III if equipped with modern sub-systems like AESA & IRST with extended payload & hardpoints can serve PAF as a 4.5th Generation jet. It can fill the technological & numerical gap if inducted in 80-100 along with 100 Block-II Thunders & 100 F-16s of different blocks. FC-31 or any other stealth platform is not arriving atleast in next 10 years if i am not wrong. So, its not a bad idea to invest some money into JF-17 Block-III and make it worthy with modern sub-systems. 3-4 billion $ will be minimum cost to raise up squadrons of new 4.5th generation jets for PAF. They can use same money or even less money to prepare a modern Thunder. PAF officials already said that, 'JF-17 Thunder is our destiny'.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Without air cover the carrier is a sitting duck.

Let's just ignore the carrier will a) not be alone, instead it will be escorted by a large amount of very advanced surface vessels all with advanced SAMs and some of the best radars in service anywhere in the world (BARAK-8/RAN-40L/MFSTAR combo is absolutely cutting edge) and b) even the carriers have their own AD systems (BARAK-8 and CIWS).

1 SQN of PAF jets (no matter what they are) are a) not going to fare well against the CBG's BARCAP (supported by the carrier's own AEW assets) b) any ordinance that slips through will be dealt with by the CBG's own AD network.

I fail to see how the PAF could ever get anywhere near an IN CBG, it's not like the IN is going to park it 300km of the Pak coast, it will be a mobile target operating 500km+ away from your shores and there would be little you could do to touch it.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Sir a scenario -- A max of two CBG's that IN can field in Arabian Sea. Ever hear of swarm tactics? Overwhelm the defenses by launching, say, fifteen Mirages or more at time against each CBG and overwhelm the defense. or a coordinated Air and undersea attack? After that the BG can survive but the C would be taken out.

It will be still be a cheaper trade off from Pakistani perspective.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You are not wrong infact the senario you are describing happened in Falkland War when Argentinian Super Etendards fired exocet missiles in a similar manner and successfully achieved their target. However when we talk about exercises we have to keep in mind no one shows their complete strength so there are very high chances that the Mirages would have been detected and shot down if PAF tried such thing in war or even during peace time. In addition to this recently during another exercise a chinese Yuan class submarine came extremely close to US aircraft carrier, it was well within firing range but decide to come out of the water and reveal its presence. So does this mean US can't detect chinese submarines? No it shows that you don't reveal your true strength in such things.

However we cannot completely say that such a thing can't happen but before our Mirages attack AC the protection needs to be neutralized first.

I remember watching a documentary on this.
The reason for the success in sinking at least one of the Frigates, was that the battle control
computer onboard the Frigate detected the missile, and then decided which anti-missile defense
should be used, and sent the neccessary commands to shoot down the missile.
Unfortunately that particular system was not installed on that Frigate.

 

[untitled]

The reason for the success in sinking at least one of the Frigates, was that the battle control computer onboard the Frigate

It was the destroyer HMS Sheffield

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sheffield_(D80)