Money or Strategic Interests?

[Skull and Bones]

India's $2T GDP is for a population of 1.4b while Russia's $1.3T GDP is for a population of 144m. Go figure.

By that logic Papua New Guinea has a much robust economy than Pakistan

 

[Salahuddin Ayubi]

Education time:

Per capita GDP is a measure of the total output of a country that takes gross domestic product (GDP) and divides it by the number of people in the country. The per capita GDP is especially useful when comparing one country to another, because it shows the relative performance of the countries.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Education time:

Per capita GDP is a measure of the total output of a country that takes gross domestic product (GDP) and divides it by the number of people in the country. The per capita GDP is especially useful when comparing one country to another, because it shows the relative performance of the countries.

Does that mean Liechtenstein is more relevant than Russia?

 

[Salahuddin Ayubi]

@Sinopakfriend was right about Indians derailing this thread.

Refer the link shared above which compares Russia with India. It's an eye opener for bhindian day dreamers.

Reverting back to topic.

Indeed, it is the long term strategic objectives of Russia and China which define its relationship and strength thereof with Pakistan and Iran; and not short term monetary benefits.

 

[Neutron]

Lately, a lot of discussions about Pak-China, Pak-Russia and Pak-Turkey relationship have been derailed by Indian members of PDF, for example, in case of Pak-Russia relationship, by citing that Pakistan hasn't got the money to persuade Russia to sell it high-end military goodies like the Su-35.

I am wondering, is it money that has made Russia approach Pakistan (and Pakistan reciprocating) and offer to re-write and strengthen the relationship, OR, is it related to Russia's medium and long-terms plans in the region and beyond. If earlier, then Russia really doesn't need Pakistan at all and there was no point in Russia opening up those tightly-shut windows and doors towards Pakistan, as it did recently. If the later, then it has nothing to do with financial gains out of military sales, but has much much more to do with forming a strong group/block in the region, starting from Russia right upto Europe's entry gate, Turkey.

I am of the view that all this is a part of a much larger and grander plan and Pakistan, with it's military prowess, nuclear capability and strategic geographical location, offers to be a quintessential ally for both Russia's and China's future strategic plans in the region. Iran also is an indispensable variable in this equation and as important as Pakistan for Russia and China. Short-term monetary gains arising from military sales transactions is not the goal of either China or Russia, but forming a solid eastern block in the region which is capable of countering any US-led NATO offensive in the region, is. Once the later is achieved, the monetary gains to reap in the medium to long term will be exponentially higher than short term gains.

long term strategic goals

 

[SrNair]

Lately, a lot of discussions about Pak-China, Pak-Russia and Pak-Turkey relationship have been derailed by Indian members of PDF, for example, in case of Pak-Russia relationship, by citing that Pakistan hasn't got the money to persuade Russia to sell it high-end military goodies like the Su-35.

I am wondering, is it money that has made Russia approach Pakistan (and Pakistan reciprocating) and offer to re-write and strengthen the relationship, OR, is it related to Russia's medium and long-terms plans in the region and beyond. If earlier, then Russia really doesn't need Pakistan at all and there was no point in Russia opening up those tightly-shut windows and doors towards Pakistan, as it did recently. If the later, then it has nothing to do with financial gains out of military sales, but has much much more to do with forming a strong group/block in the region, starting from Russia right upto Europe's entry gate, Turkey.

I am of the view that all this is a part of a much larger and grander plan and Pakistan, with it's military prowess, nuclear capability and strategic geographical location, offers to be a quintessential ally for both Russia's and China's future strategic plans in the region. Iran also is an indispensable variable in this equation and as important as Pakistan for Russia and China. Short-term monetary gains arising from military sales transactions is not the goal of either China or Russia, but forming a solid eastern block in the region which is capable of countering any US-led NATO offensive in the region, is. Once the later is achieved, the monetary gains to reap in the medium to long term will be exponentially higher than short term gains.

Money or economy defines the depth and reach of strategic interests.
USSR strategic depth was far higher than current Russia.During earlier decades India's strategic interests was just in SA region.Now it expanded to other region.
Again money defines the strategic interests

 

[New World]

Lately, a lot of discussions about Pak-China, Pak-Russia and Pak-Turkey relationship have been derailed by Indian members of PDF, for example, in case of Pak-Russia relationship, by citing that Pakistan hasn't got the money to persuade Russia to sell it high-end military goodies like the Su-35.

I am wondering, is it money that has made Russia approach Pakistan (and Pakistan reciprocating) and offer to re-write and strengthen the relationship, OR, is it related to Russia's medium and long-terms plans in the region and beyond. If earlier, then Russia really doesn't need Pakistan at all and there was no point in Russia opening up those tightly-shut windows and doors towards Pakistan, as it did recently. If the later, then it has nothing to do with financial gains out of military sales, but has much much more to do with forming a strong group/block in the region, starting from Russia right upto Europe's entry gate, Turkey.

I am of the view that all this is a part of a much larger and grander plan and Pakistan, with it's military prowess, nuclear capability and strategic geographical location, offers to be a quintessential ally for both Russia's and China's future strategic plans in the region. Iran also is an indispensable variable in this equation and as important as Pakistan for Russia and China. Short-term monetary gains arising from military sales transactions is not the goal of either China or Russia, but forming a solid eastern block in the region which is capable of countering any US-led NATO offensive in the region, is. Once the later is achieved, the monetary gains to reap in the medium to long term will be exponentially higher than short term gains.

there are few things which are driving factor for the new Russian policy.

1. Given the new found love affair between West/US and India, and india's readiness to become the partner with west in every thing(SCS is the example of that).
2. as @Taimoor Khan has already said in post#11 about West/US containment of Russia.
3. the way West/US has destroyed the M.E and are now trying to abandon M.E to suffer.
4. lowest oil prices with sanctions of West/US on Russia.
5. recent coup attempt in Turkey;

The new Russian policy will be like this.

1. Russia will try to make friendship with Turkey.
Given the recent relation between EU/US and Turkey, Russia will try to make friendship with Turkey to end the Syrian crises and to secure her route into Mediterranean sea. Russia will use Turkey to make in-way into the Arab world(GCC).

2. Russia will launch Chinese military into the world politics.
Russia will convince china to launch her military forces into the foreign land(Syria, Iraq, Libya etc) divert and ease the pressure upon herself.

3. Russia will make economic and strategic relation with Pakistan.
Russia consider Central Asia as her backyard. and given the recent relation of Pak-US, Russia will try to make friendship with Pakistan to secure her backyard that's why Pakistan was made member of SCO. America has already tried to interfere in the Central Asian countries but was nullified by the Chinese.

4.Russia will enter in the Arab world(GCC).
Russia will use Pakistan, Turkey and China to enter in the Arab World to chake mate the West/US in the M.E. as Arabs are already suspicious of the West/US policies.

5. Oil Prices will rise again.
Russia's relation with Arab world will rise the oil prices again to gain momentum economically to compete with West/US effectively.

By this way West/US will be completely vanished from M.E and only SCS will be the region where tension will be high as Japan will be standing tall against China there.

 

[war&peace]

The world is going through major realignments and Pakistan-China-Russia-Turkey is a natural alliance as Pak-US relations have been thawing and being an avid observer of US policies and actions, I always knew Pak-US relations are fickle and shallow and those are based on short term goals for the latter wanted to use Pakistan with a carrot and stick policy and thanks to the short-sightedness of Pak's planners and strategists, the country let it itself to be used and get mired into deep troubles though slowly and steadily it has recovered but still there is a long way to go, perseverance and dedication is required at every level especially from the highest military and civilian leadership. I went a bit on tangent but it was necessary. Now there is a general awakening, though at eleventh hour, that the trains changed the track and Pak has been left alone by USA and I hope people do not get fooled by a few feel-happy statements from US state department about how important Pakistan is for them.

Russia has re-evaluated its priorities after the Putin took over as a president and it has set the direction in which it needs go and is totally aware of the strategic shift going on in the region and around the globe and it has already taken the necessary steps. One thing that superpowers excel above the others is their ability to see the future since they have better knowledge available...for example Russian intelligence played a crucial role in the failure of the coup attempt by Gullenists in Turkey simply because Russia has been observing situation in Turkey and despite the shooting down of its A/C by Turkey it kept its cool composure and helped root out the elements who wanted to pitch Turkey against Russia based on the history of hatred and fear between the two.

The people who over-estimate the importance of a few billion bucks for a superpower are nothing but idiots or deceivers. If that was so then Russia would have never stepped in middle-east and helped Syria against the zionist-ISIS and earn the displeasure of the NATO, USA and the West and spent billions of dollar in the largest deployment of Russia outside Russia in post-USSR era. And the same goes for Crimea crisis where Russia demonstrated its power and did not bend despite its economic woes since a superpower knows that it is not just the money that makes it a superpower but the right decisions at the key moments in the history. Also to debunk the claims of Indian trolls, China has outdone India in Russia by investing 270 billion USD in Russia so India's 50 billion USD promised, don't hold a candle to the Chinese investment and the prospects of the trade via CPEC. Thus we already see China and Russia together on SCS issue while India is in their enemy's camp.

The only problem between Pakistan and Russia has been Pakistan's pro-west elite but due to the clear signal from US, now even they have started to realise that USA has made the strategic shift. Pakistan needs to warm up relations with Russia. Keep China in the loop and press ahead with signing the deals instead of speculations and mere interests...Russia is waiting and open for you Pakistan..and pk pdfians don't take Indian trolls and their claims more seriously than a rat's a$$.

 

[VCheng]

Russia never did closed it's doors and windows to Pakistan, The Ilyushin transporters and the Mi-17 tells a different story.

It is just another day in international geopolitics, with constant realignment of policies in pursuit of national interests. If money were the only concern, then USA is a more favorable trading partner for Pakistan than either China or Russia. So it must be that long term strategy is playing a role in Pakistan's realignment with an authoritarian-dreaming-of-past-glories-post-communism Russia and a capitalistic-economy-with-communist-control China. Interesting indeed, but then again international geopolitics have created stranger bedfellows before, therefore not surprising at all.

 

[Arsalan]

It is just another day in international geopolitics, with constant realignment of policies in pursuit of national interests. If money were the only concern, then USA is a more favorable trading partner for Pakistan than either China or Russia. So it must be that long term strategy is playing a role in Pakistan's realignment with an authoritarian-dreaming-of-past-glories-post-communism Russia and a capitalistic-economy-with-communist-control China. Interesting indeed, but then again international geopolitics have created stranger bedfellows before, therefore not surprising at all.

perhaps the authoritarian-dreaming-of-past-glories-post-communism Russia and a capitalistic-economy-with-communist-control China are both prefered choices over a back stabbing-unreliable-non trustworthy ally with a rich history of changing alliances and chosing to look other way in time of crisis. Only time will tell what was the better choice.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@Spy Master @PaklovesTurkiye @TMA @war&peace @Irfan Baloch @Kaptaan @ISI. @Tameem @araz @Pakistan First @PAKISTANFOREVER @Pakistan Zindabad @MastanKhan @HAKIKAT @Mugwop @Windjammer

Pak Friends-Brothers,

These are great times to be in as a central asian and ME power that your beautiful country is.

Turkey is becoming free and find her calling as a great regional power in her own right. The global empire will do everything to prevent Turkey to regain her strength back...but as things stand today Turkey is the most powerful militarily in europe sans WMDs. You can read Friedman's views on this.

Turkey sees more in Pak than Pak herself can percieve. Your Turk brothers are turning to you strategically, please realise this. Turkish grand revival is within Sino-Pak-Rus axis...SCO+OBOR+CPEC+EEU.

Russia has no choice for now but to turn eastwards...China is russia's bank. So, there is commonality of interests..it is intertwined so much that the Sino-Rus strategic partnership will last for a couple decades.

China by all intents and purposes is the driver of global economic recovery and will continue to see her influence grow for decades to come. China is the new global economic power. FACT.

BRICS is actually CR = China + Rus. Turkey might replace 'I' and Pak might join the club in foreseeable future...China and Russia will support Pak's entery.

GCC is being left to fend for itself as the hounds of hell return home..

911 bill will become law. And arab capital will be not that safe even in havens outside of US. Where can they go now?

Pak has a historic opportunity to break the self imposed mental limitations and come out of strategic inertia.

Money is never a problem. Creative and long term thinking is for Pak. Please, Forgive my saying so but Pak is Master of Self Sabotage.

SCO is where most powerful armies and states are concentrated with most WNDs and biggest industrial base. Pak is in SCO.


It is the time for Pak to take responsibility as regionnal nuclear power. The vacuum in the ME can/will be fulfilled by Pak-Turk join enterprise with full backing of two global powers i.e SCO.

All your economic or military equipment wows can be solved with one grand strategic move...

But the key is to act as the power Pak is and stop being seeking 'help' from GCC arabs...no insult or demeaning is intended to GCC but historically they spent money on western weapons as buy-off for security and dimplomatic coverage... none in the West ever raised concerns for human rights or democracy in ME. But now this changes.

Hopefully, Pak gov can form a 25 yrs plan of socio-economic development and execute it with obssession of a maniac.

Can Pak planners truly leverage CPEC? Both socio-economically and strategically?

This will only happen when Pak gov/establishment accepts the Truth that its a central asian and ME regional power. And acts resolutely in this area of responsibility in the best interests of this area and Asia in general.

Sino-Pak-Rus axis will only work if it is Sino-Pak-Rus axis.

Primakov's dream of Sino-Rus-Ind triangle was killed by the indian empire even when the congress was ruling over it.

No other equation will be so constructive as Sino-Pak-Rus axis. Other bilateral equations are already forming. But these equations are tactical not strategic.

the illegal and oppressive indian empire has shot itself in foot by opposing CPEC at every turn and by sponsoring terror against Pak people.
By moving offensive weapons to South Tibet and by joining the China Containment party. So the lines are clearly drawn. The Grandest of the Great Game begins...and your great country is on the side of Asian renainssance!

Never listen to the agents of this RSS empire here at PDF..they are here to undermine your spirits and keep you down. Even when they use friendly words...

Once again the question to you good people is:

Can Pak accept the Truth of being a regional nuclear power and act resolutely in her area of responsibility?

 

[Centurion2016]

Russia no longer a major power.

There ecoomy Is half size of India.s

india defense budget I's now larger than Russia.

And without Indian billions many of Russian future military projects are closing Down.

Do not underesimste the effect of Losing the biggest arms market on the planet to USA Israel and France.

Pakistan offers a tiny fraction of what India have given and can give Russia in trade military sales and political influence

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Pakistanis have just barely started to learn that to flaunt your funds has a negative effect. With funds in hand---they can't seem to get the right aircraft---.

Bottomline is that even though when you know that money is of basic & primary interest---effort must be made to propagate it as a mutual interest---a friendly dealing---.

The SELLER has to be paid one way or the other---then why not make the transaction pleasant and comfortable for future dealings---.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

@Spy Master @PaklovesTurkiye @TMA @war&peace @Irfan Baloch @Kaptaan @ISI. @Tameem @araz @Pakistan First @PAKISTANFOREVER @Pakistan Zindabad @MastanKhan @HAKIKAT @Mugwop @Windjammer

Pak Friends-Brothers,

These are great times to be in as a central asian and ME power that your beautiful country is.

Turkey is becoming free and find her calling as a great regional power in her own right. The global empire will do everything to prevent Turkey to regain her strength back...but as things stand today Turkey is the most powerful militarily in europe sans WMDs. You can read Friedman's views on this.

Turkey sees more in Pak than Pak herself can percieve. Your Turk brothers are turning to you strategically, please realise this. Turkish grand revival is within Sino-Pak-Rus axis...SCO+OBOR+CPEC+EEU.

Russia has no choice for now but to turn eastwards...China is russia's bank. So, there is commonality of interests..it is intertwined so much that the Sino-Rus strategic partnership will last for a couple decades.

China by all intents and purposes is the driver of global economic recovery and will continue to see her influence grow for decades to come. China is the new global economic power. FACT.

BRICS is actually CR = China + Rus. Turkey might replace 'I' and Pak might join the club in foreseeable future...China and Russia will support Pak's entery.

GCC is being left to fend for itself as the hounds of hell return home..

911 bill will become law. And arab capital will be not that safe even in havens outside of US. Where can they go now?

Pak has a historic opportunity to break the self imposed mental limitations and come out of strategic inertia.

Money is never a problem. Creative and long term thinking is for Pak. Please, Forgive my saying so but Pak is Master of Self Sabotage.

SCO is where most powerful armies and states are concentrated with most WNDs and biggest industrial base. Pak is in SCO.


It is the time for Pak to take responsibility as regionnal nuclear power. The vacuum in the ME can/will be fulfilled by Pak-Turk join enterprise with full backing of two global powers i.e SCO.

All your economic or military equipment wows can be solved with one grand strategic move...

But the key is to act as the power Pak is and stop being seeking 'help' from GCC arabs...no insult or demeaning is intended to GCC but historically they spent money on western weapons as buy-off for security and dimplomatic coverage... none in the West ever raised concerns for human rights or democracy in ME. But now this changes.

Hopefully, Pak gov can form a 25 yrs plan of socio-economic development and execute it with obssession of a maniac.

Can Pak planners truly leverage CPEC? Both socio-economically and strategically?

This will only happen when Pak gov/establishment accepts the Truth that its a central asian and ME regional power. And acts resolutely in this area of responsibility in the best interests of this area and Asia in general.

Sino-Pak-Rus axis will only work if it is Sino-Pak-Rus axis.

Primakov's dream of Sino-Rus-Ind triangle was killed by the indian empire even when the congress was ruling over it.

No other equation will be so constructive as Sino-Pak-Rus axis. Other bilateral equations are already forming. But these equations are tactical not strategic.

the illegal and oppressive indian empire has shot itself in foot by opposing CPEC at every turn and by sponsoring terror against Pak people.
By moving offensive weapons to South Tibet and by joining the China Containment party. So the lines are clearly drawn. The Grandest of the Great Game begins...and your great country is on the side of Asian renainssance!

Never listen to the agents of this RSS empire here at PDF..they are here to undermine your spirits and keep you down. Even when they use friendly words...

Once again the question to you good people is:

Can Pak accept the Truth of being a regional nuclear power and act resolutely in her area of responsibility?

For first part of question...My answer is, Yes. While about the latter one ; I think we will surely act resolutely in our area of responsibility in ME only after we become internally strong....

Pakistan has very close ties with Arabs historically. We are the only Muslim Nuclear state among more than 50 countries. Arabs do know this. Being of same religion, Pakistan can definitely act more confidently than others in ME...

But I think we will have to make our country strong in all fronts for that...Diplomatically, economically and militarily...I think we are on our way with the help of you guys ...And In Sha Allah, we will regain our lost glory...

Some bastards, local and foreign elite trapped us in war on terrorism, hordes of refugees came in...We bear it, we bear it alone. Heavy damage we suffered in economy, tourism, infrastructure and casualties of our people....

Then came in China with CPEC, which literally excited Pakistanis from top to bottom, our moral got shoot up and we take an oath to make CPEC successful at all costs.....China has just put an injection into Pakistanis. We are not gonna stop now. When we decide to make something, we make it one way or the other, for example Nukes. No one wanted nukes in Pakistan hands but we have it and enemy can't do jack squat about it...

This is all I wanted to say...Say my thanks to all Chinese people out there in Netherlands and in back home China on behalf of me....We will never forget you guys who stood with us in all hardships. A sign of true friend. We can blindly trust China and Turkey, our two most trusted allies on whom we can count on and get support....

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Russia I'd no longer a major power.

There ecoomy I'd the size of India.s

I dis defense budget I'd now larger than Russia.

And without Indian billions many of Russian future military projects are closing Down.

Do not underesimste the effect of Losing the biggest arms market on the planet to USA Israel and France.

Pakistan offers a tiny fraction of what India have Russia in trade military sales and political influence

The Russian economy maybe the same size as that of india's but their population is approx. 10x less than that of india. Also, they can indigenously produce high tech weaponry of the same standard as those of the americans. Something which indians cannot do. Therefore Russia will always be far superior to India.