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Money or Strategic Interests?

Are you suggesting the people too went extinct? That our ancestors suddenly popped out of holes in the ground once the people above disappeared? Lol.

So today's Turkish people are not related to ancient Anatolians because their civilization went extinct? Correct?

Are you stupid?

look at the historical records ...
No one knows what happened to the people who lived in Mohenjadaro and Harrappa. You will note the historians use the word extinct for a good reason. The only thing you have is the ruins.

I would disagree. Pakistan, like all sovereign nations, has pursued its national interests as best as it can given its particular set of very difficult circumstances. With the recent changes in the region, it is in the process of changing its policies as well, which will take a few years to implement, given the magnitude of the change needed to adapt. How well it manages this crucial transition remains to be seen, but it is wrong to think that Pakistani thinking has not kept up with the times.

how much is the thought process in tune with reality ?
 
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how much is the thought process in tune with reality ?

The thought process is absolutely in tune with national interests. That is what is important. How well it works in reality remains to be seen, but it is early days yet in this realignment.
 
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And @PaklovesTurkiye please do not take offence. I just used this as symptom and not criticism of you personally :-)
I m all for learning...I won't take any offence from you and and other senior members...:tup:

Yes, we should not see this through religious prism and brag about Muslim bomb in every corner of street as we do now, I agree with that....:cheers:
 
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The Russian economy maybe the same size as that of india's but their population is approx. 10x less than that of india. Also, they can indigenously produce high tech weaponry of the same standard as those of the americans. Something which indians cannot do. Therefore Russia will always be far superior to India.

there is economy and then there is a quality of economy, one can have 2 trillion economy by selling raw material to China while other can have the same size of economy by selling hi-tech defense equipment to China. We both know which country is which
 
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there is economy and then there is a quality of economy, one can have 2 trillion economy by selling raw material to China while other can have the same size of economy by selling hi-tech defense equipment to China. We both know which country is which


Then again you can have a large, highly impoverished nation of at least 1.3 billion people with a big economy because if shear size. We know which is which.
 
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look at the historical records ...
No one knows what happened to the people who lived in Mohenjadaro and Harrappa. You will note the historians use the word extinct for a good reason. The only thing you have is the ruins.

What a messed up logic. Dumb, I should add.

No one knows what happened to ancient Europeans - all you see are Roman and Greek ruins. Safe to assume ancient Europeans went extinct? And today's Europeans come from Martians?

No one knows what happened to ancient Mayans - all you see are Mayan ruins. Safe to assume ancient Latin Americans went extinct? And today's Latin Americans are all bonafide colonial Euros?

Such a cheap line of reasoning to deny us our history. :coffee:

I'm sure you didn't think about the ancestry link when you said "nothing in common".
 
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What a messed up logic. Dumb, I should add.

No one knows what happened to ancient Europeans - all you see are Roman and Greek ruins. Safe to assume ancient Europeans went extinct? And today's Europeans come from Martians?

No one knows what happened to ancient Mayans - all you see are Mayan ruins. Safe to assume ancient Latin Americans went extinct? And today's Latin Americans are all bonafide colonial Euros?

Such a cheap line of reasoning to deny us our history. :coffee:

I'm sure you didn't think about the ancestry link when you said "nothing in common".

There is plenty of historical record about the Romans, Mayans and Greeks. Check your library.
Roman Empire was destroyed. Romans survived. The Mayan empire was destroyed. The Mayans survived the conquistadors. Ditto with the Greeks.

We have no historical records about Indus Valley civilization. We do not understand their writings. All you have is the ruins at Harappa and Mohenjadaro. We can speculate what happened to the people.
 
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Another Perspective: A somewhat old article but very relevant and thought-provoking:

Pakistan: poor economy, rich country

It was January 2008, a relatively cold morning in Dubai. I was walking on Shaikh Zayed Road after parking my car about 300 meters from the meeting point with my client. I stopped suddenly before Crown Plaza upon hearing a Pakistani labourer arguing with a guy, claiming that UAE was not a rich country.


I went up to the gentleman and said “Khan Sahab are you crazy? You are standing on Shaikh Zayed Road, the heart of Dubai and you are saying that this country is not rich?”

He smiled and responded with a statement that I can never forget. He asked me to ignore all the big buildings, the infrastructure and the trade and then see what the country really had to offer.

These days I have been reading articles on the forthcoming budget and Pakistan’s economy. Being an analyst I am also involved in debates on VAT, capital gain tax and other technical issues. But I am still intrigued by Khan Sahab’s statement, and for the sake of analysis there is no harm in taking a look at where Pakistan stands.

The country has the second largest salt mine in the world, fifth largest gold mine, seventh largest copper mine, fifth largest coal reserves, seventh largest wheat and rice production capacity (can be enhanced to be the largest), is eighth in the rankings of fresh water availability with 2,053 cubic meters of water per person in 1995.

I must stop the count here for I already feel ashamed.

Khan Sahab you were right. Dubai is not a rich country. Dubai is actually a rich economy. Pakistan on the other hand is among the richest countries in the world, but also suffers from a poor economy.

It is quite amazing that the country that is chasing the realization of coalition support funds of 349 million dollars from the USA also happens to possess 185 billion tonnes of Thar coal which is worth an estimated 25 trillion dollars.

The country that faces a severe energy crisis has the potential to generate power supply for the next 100 years by utilizing the same coal reserves.

This coal utilization can save four billion dollars by reducing oil import costs. Dr Murtuza Mughal of Economic Watch stated that coal power generation can cost Pakistan Rs 5.67 per unit for power generation while IPPs cost Rs9.27 for the same. Other than coal, Pakistan is also rich in wind and bio resources of energy.

The point is simply to understand that the way our finance ministers portray the situation does not represent our true economic potential. It is really a shame that we declare it our success and best planning to successfully acquire aid packages from IMF, World Bank or the USA on time.

It is really worrying to think that the financial success of the government in our country is on the basis of financial arrangements rather than economic management.

Our governments feel happy to appoint IMF, World Bank or investment banking professionals as economic chiefs of the country. They either simply ignore the important economists for these positions, or they are just interested in short term fiscal management.

It is high time that our focus on economic planning and budgets to shifted towards clear cut economic goals for developing an industrial base in the country.

We need to come up with policies that ensure a culture of entrepreneurship in the country. Income support programmes cannot serve the objective of economic freedom. It is actually the facilitation of doing business and converting ideas into returns that can change the economic outlook of Pakistan.

We sit over a resource bank of trillions of dollars while we chase millions to survive. This myth of the poor economy of the richest country has to end.

Our prime issues are not VAT, capital gain tax etcetera. The biggest issue is the under utilization of the massive resources available in this land, where our federal budgets has been silent for years. This issue is directly related to poverty reduction as well as developing confidence in the people of Pakistan and about their future.

We need to see beyond fiscal management and look towards true economic management of our country.

Saqib Omer Saeed is a Financial/Business Researcher Analyst and adjunct faculty for Investments and Finance in CBM, SZABIST, BIZTEK & University of Karachi and blogs at www.bizomer.com
 
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Another Perspective: A somewhat old article but very relevant and thought-provoking:

Pakistan: poor economy, rich country

It was January 2008, a relatively cold morning in Dubai. I was walking on Shaikh Zayed Road after parking my car about 300 meters from the meeting point with my client. I stopped suddenly before Crown Plaza upon hearing a Pakistani labourer arguing with a guy, claiming that UAE was not a rich country.


I went up to the gentleman and said “Khan Sahab are you crazy? You are standing on Shaikh Zayed Road, the heart of Dubai and you are saying that this country is not rich?”

He smiled and responded with a statement that I can never forget. He asked me to ignore all the big buildings, the infrastructure and the trade and then see what the country really had to offer.

These days I have been reading articles on the forthcoming budget and Pakistan’s economy. Being an analyst I am also involved in debates on VAT, capital gain tax and other technical issues. But I am still intrigued by Khan Sahab’s statement, and for the sake of analysis there is no harm in taking a look at where Pakistan stands.

The country has the second largest salt mine in the world, fifth largest gold mine, seventh largest copper mine, fifth largest coal reserves, seventh largest wheat and rice production capacity (can be enhanced to be the largest), is eighth in the rankings of fresh water availability with 2,053 cubic meters of water per person in 1995.

I must stop the count here for I already feel ashamed.

Khan Sahab you were right. Dubai is not a rich country. Dubai is actually a rich economy. Pakistan on the other hand is among the richest countries in the world, but also suffers from a poor economy.

It is quite amazing that the country that is chasing the realization of coalition support funds of 349 million dollars from the USA also happens to possess 185 billion tonnes of Thar coal which is worth an estimated 25 trillion dollars.

The country that faces a severe energy crisis has the potential to generate power supply for the next 100 years by utilizing the same coal reserves.

This coal utilization can save four billion dollars by reducing oil import costs. Dr Murtuza Mughal of Economic Watch stated that coal power generation can cost Pakistan Rs 5.67 per unit for power generation while IPPs cost Rs9.27 for the same. Other than coal, Pakistan is also rich in wind and bio resources of energy.

The point is simply to understand that the way our finance ministers portray the situation does not represent our true economic potential. It is really a shame that we declare it our success and best planning to successfully acquire aid packages from IMF, World Bank or the USA on time.

It is really worrying to think that the financial success of the government in our country is on the basis of financial arrangements rather than economic management.

Our governments feel happy to appoint IMF, World Bank or investment banking professionals as economic chiefs of the country. They either simply ignore the important economists for these positions, or they are just interested in short term fiscal management.

It is high time that our focus on economic planning and budgets to shifted towards clear cut economic goals for developing an industrial base in the country.

We need to come up with policies that ensure a culture of entrepreneurship in the country. Income support programmes cannot serve the objective of economic freedom. It is actually the facilitation of doing business and converting ideas into returns that can change the economic outlook of Pakistan.

We sit over a resource bank of trillions of dollars while we chase millions to survive. This myth of the poor economy of the richest country has to end.

Our prime issues are not VAT, capital gain tax etcetera. The biggest issue is the under utilization of the massive resources available in this land, where our federal budgets has been silent for years. This issue is directly related to poverty reduction as well as developing confidence in the people of Pakistan and about their future.

We need to see beyond fiscal management and look towards true economic management of our country.

Saqib Omer Saeed is a Financial/Business Researcher Analyst and adjunct faculty for Investments and Finance in CBM, SZABIST, BIZTEK & University of Karachi and blogs at www.bizomer.com
If achievements of Pakistani citizens is a criteria pakistan is poor
 
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i am responding to the thoughts of the pakistani laborer
And these were the thoughts mentioned in the article:

The country has the second largest salt mine in the world, fifth largest gold mine, seventh largest copper mine, fifth largest coal reserves, seventh largest wheat and rice production capacity (can be enhanced to be the largest), is eighth in the rankings of fresh water availability with 2,053 cubic meters of water per person in 1995.

It is quite amazing that the country that is chasing the realization of coalition support funds of 349 million dollars from the USA also happens to possess 185 billion tonnes of Thar coal which is worth an estimated 25 trillion dollars.

The country that faces a severe energy crisis has the potential to generate power supply for the next 100 years by utilizing the same coal reserves.

This coal utilization can save four billion dollars by reducing oil import costs. Dr Murtuza Mughal of Economic Watch stated that coal power generation can cost Pakistan Rs 5.67 per unit for power generation while IPPs cost Rs9.27 for the same. Other than coal, Pakistan is also rich in wind and bio resources of energy.

We sit over a resource bank of trillions of dollars while we chase millions to survive. This myth of the poor economy of the richest country has to end.

= = =

and the purpose was to provoke a thought that it's not actually a shortage of wealth (zameen kay khazaanay). We need sincere, honest and competent people in the right places in our governance structure.
 
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And these were the thoughts mentioned in the article:

The country has the second largest salt mine in the world, fifth largest gold mine, seventh largest copper mine, fifth largest coal reserves, seventh largest wheat and rice production capacity (can be enhanced to be the largest), is eighth in the rankings of fresh water availability with 2,053 cubic meters of water per person in 1995.

It is quite amazing that the country that is chasing the realization of coalition support funds of 349 million dollars from the USA also happens to possess 185 billion tonnes of Thar coal which is worth an estimated 25 trillion dollars.

The country that faces a severe energy crisis has the potential to generate power supply for the next 100 years by utilizing the same coal reserves.

This coal utilization can save four billion dollars by reducing oil import costs. Dr Murtuza Mughal of Economic Watch stated that coal power generation can cost Pakistan Rs 5.67 per unit for power generation while IPPs cost Rs9.27 for the same. Other than coal, Pakistan is also rich in wind and bio resources of energy.

We sit over a resource bank of trillions of dollars while we chase millions to survive. This myth of the poor economy of the richest country has to end.

= = =

and the purpose was to provoke a thought that it's not actually a shortage of wealth (zameen kay khazaanay). We need sincere, honest and competent people in the right places in our governance structure.

Pakistan is not a rich country by natural resources. It is a blessing.

I would question your numbers

For coal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_by_country

on your copper and gold mine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saindak_Copper_Gold_Project

"Under the terms of the deal, MCC paid an annual rent of $500,000 for the mine to the Government of Pakistan."
That will make the people of Pakistan rich.

per captia water amount is low ...
the reliability of the water flow is good

the biggest asset is people. there is a long way to go
 
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