Moment Of Truth :---

[Irfan Baloch]

And the superior pilot training of PAF counter that effectively.

these superior pilots need planes to fight

 

[TsAr]

absolutely. the same happened in the ROSE program; having gone to Cheetah you would have completely been on your own trajectory; it pains me to say it corruption and complete lack of foresight and vision.

It's painful but it's the reality.

 

[Corona]

I don't think there is a single nation on this planet who has 'enough' planes.

 

[TsAr]

these superior pilots need planes to fight

Superior pilots hawai ghoron par bhi sawari Kar saktay Han.
What we need to understand is that we cannot always rely on training and jazba. The need for modern equipment cannot be denied.

 

[SecularNationalist]

these superior pilots need planes to fight

If you remember how PAF performed in 1965 and what was the kill ratio ,then you should realize with less fighter jets that numbers difference can be closed.Its the quality not the quantity and man behind the machine matters.
By your logic all the arab nations could have won the war against Israel in 1967.

 

[denel]

If you remember how PAF performed in 1965 and what was the kill ratio ,then you should realize with less fighter jets that numbers difference can be closed.Its the quality not the quantity and man behind the machine matters.

young man, the other side did not have good aircraft and had poor training to begin with.

 

[doorstar]

chalo ji, baba gee phir shru hogaye..adaat se majboor

if you read the whole thread you'll find that he is being encouraged by senior chief of the PDF and few others. as long as he has an audience he'll keep on doing it

 

[V. Makarov]

Hi,

The indian take over of kashmir has finally let the cat out of the bag---.

And the cat says that the Paf has been caught with its pants down and may end up letting the nation and people of kashmir down---.

The Paf is woefully short of frontline fighter aircraft by a number of 100-150 aircraft---. The reason being that the Paf did not believe that there would be a war with india---.

Paf intentionally kept the numbers down over the last 3 1/2 decades for the reason that with a full inventory---pak army would have waged a war and the Paf---self serving organization that it is---does not want to fight a war---.

Every opportunity that the Paf had of getting the aircraft was short listed and an excuse found not to get the aircraft in a timely manner---. Every opportunity was availed to stretch the purchase option till the line stretched so thin that it broke---.

Never ever was there any URGENCY shown on the behalf of the Paf to get the aircraft on urgent basis---.

Dear Mastan Sahab, You always have an interesting way of looking at things. Anyway I think that Pakistan's economic problems are real and have been serious for the past 30 years. If you say that the decision makers did not invest in buying state of the art fighter jets, then where did they spend it? : Pakistan's navy is sub par, artillery systems are old, air defense systems are also lacking the technological advancements very much needed.
The problem is that Pakistan just could not generate enough capital to even think of any defense procurement in the past three decades. Our pilots are quite well conversant with the modern technology of fighter jets and i'm sure they would quite appreciate a good addition of aircraft to paf.

However, after reading your post, I now really think that if PAF did have another ~120 4th generation aircraft, the threshold for a full on conventional war could be much lower.

 

[loanranger]

What is your source?

Alan Keisler

 

[TsAr]

If you remember how PAF performed in 1965 and what was the kill ratio ,then you should realize with less fighter jets that numbers difference can be closed.Its the quality not the quantity and man behind the machine matters.
By your logic all the arab nations could have won the war against Israel in 1967.

In 65 PAF got IAF by surprise, they were never anticipating an attack from PAF due to a verbal agreement between the chiefs of both the airforces of not getting involved in the war. Most of the casualties suffered by IAF was on ground which really broke their spine.

 

[SecularNationalist]

young man, the other side did not have good aircraft and had poor training to begin with.

Well their jets are good today but the pilot training and plane maintenance is still poor.

In 65 PAF got IAF by surprise, they were never anticipating an attack from PAF due to a verbal agreement between the chiefs of both the airforces of not getting involved in the war. Most of the casualties suffered by IAF was on ground which really broke their spine.

Well that's a news to me.Something I never heard before.Are you Indian??

 

[Irfan Baloch]

man behind the machine matters.

yes , indeed. IF there is a machine in front of that man

By your logic all the arab nations could have won the war against Israel in 1967.

why you decided paint me such blasphemy ?

my "logic" was nothing more nothing less than .. having the tool of war for the superior pilot of ours to get the chance to do what PAF does best.

 

[denel]

Dear Mastan Sahab, You always have an interesting way of looking at things. Anyway I think that Pakistan's economic problems are real and have been serious for the past 30 years. If you say that the decision makers did not invest in buying state of the art fighter jets, then where did they spend it? : Pakistan's navy is sub par, artillery systems are old, air defense systems are also lacking the technological advancements very much needed.
The problem is that Pakistan just could not generate enough capital to even think of any defense procurement in the past three decades. Our pilots are quite well conversant with the modern technology of fighter jets and i'm sure they would quite appreciate a good addition of aircraft to paf.

However, after reading your post, I now really think that if PAF did have another ~120 4th generation aircraft, the threshold for a full on conventional war could be much lower.

Dear Friend

I will sound like a broken record. It goes back to the basics of building the right insititutes to let them do their jobs; engineering excellent pods or centers; after 70 years of independence, is it not a shame that you cannot produce local aluminium or various forms of high tensile steel alloys. There needs to be a foundation laid for everything else to built on top. I give Nehru credit for having had that foresight in the 50's to lay that down both in terms of education as well and industries. Where is that vision here? Squandered long ago and transplanted by quasi mullah based doctrine and laissez a faire attitude.
Truth hurts but it must be reflected upon. Iqbal in his infinite great wisdom says - poets dream of countries and politicians destroy them. Same can be taken one step forward great leaders lay the foundation of future vision.

 

[TsAr]

Well that's a news to me.Something I never heard before.Are you Indian??

Do dig around please.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Again I would point where were the leadership of the Navy or any Audit oversight? @MastanKhan is right. There is complicity from the very top in all areas. As I kept on saying PAF had a lot of syngeries with SAAF where Atlas could step in and provide complete turnkey solutions and turn the M3/5s into complete new aircraft; instead they chose to go with the French pimps.

if you read the whole thread you'll find that he is being encouraged by senior chief of the PDF and few others. so long he has an audience he'll keep on doing it

is it that wrong what he says. Some cannot take it but are good at giving. I do not agree with everything he says but most of the things he says are worth reading.