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It takes years to equip a Corps sized formation with a certain type of transport vehicle and decades to equip an army of 700,000 troops. There are almost 4 x Corps sized formations which need MRAPs:

1. XI Corps
2. XII Corps
3. FC Baluchistan
4. FC KPK

On top of that, there are Police, Frontier Constabulary, Levies and Khasadars operating in KPK and Baluchistan regions. Its not a matter of days, or months. It will take years to equip all these formations with MRAP's.
 
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can we buy a chewing gum or a soap or even baby toy without tax in this country ?
Haha Sir, Yes everyone who buys something pays sales tax but if they think by doing that they have done a favour to country they are wrong...
The real make or break is salary tax, wealth tax, super tax etc. Do you think everyone pays that to???
Let me knowo_O
 
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Haha Sir, Yes everyone who buys something pays sales tax but if they think by doing that they have done a favour to country they are wrong...
The real make or break is salary tax, wealth tax, super tax etc. Do you think everyone pays that to???
Let me knowo_O
sir ji saying no one pay tax is also a joke sales ho ya males ho tax de de ker apni to G phat chuli hai . i have given too much in land sales taxes . 15 hazar wala intaqal ab 90 hazar main ho raha hai last one i pay 150000 for land transfer .
 
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Sales tax is different than income tax.
We pay 25-50% tax depending on income and then 14% sales tax on everything in Canada. That's not including property tax and other taxes
what are you saying sir almost every Pakistani is paying taxes even beggars and street kids homeless too .


can we buy a chewing gum or a soap or even baby toy without tax in this country ?
 
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sir ji saying no one pay tax is also a joke sales ho ya males ho tax de de ker apni to G phat chuli hai . i have given too much in land sales taxes . 15 hazar wala intaqal ab 90 hazar main ho raha hai last one i pay 150000 for land transfer .
Yes exactly they are extracting far more than chewing gum tax from us....
 
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I agree that the sense of hostility is clouded by frustration that the government targets who they can ie nokri peshas. Where it gets unjust is when the industrialists and bussiness men find loop holes to evade tax and the government to fix the problem taxes the nokri peshas even more!
Moral of the story bring the untouchables into the tax net slowly but surely!

The real culprits are the "traders" who essentially evade ALL tax. Most industrialists are too big to evade all taxes, and many of their activities (buying of raw materials, salaries to hundreds/thousands, export payments from abroad through a bank, etc.) are eventually taxed to some degree. The nokri peshas and the industrialists are more similar than they think.

Together, they need to battle the real enemy: traders and other 'cash' type businesses which are earning billions in the grey economy and not paying a bloody penny!
 
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The real culprits are the "traders" who essentially evade ALL tax. Most industrialists are too big to evade all taxes, and many of their activities (buying of raw materials, salaries to hundreds/thousands, export payments from abroad through a bank, etc.) are eventually taxed to some degree. The nokri peshas and the industrialists are more similar than they think.

Together, they need to battle the real enemy: traders and other 'cash' type businesses which are earning billions in the grey economy and not paying a bloody penny!
Agreed but the sad part is we are not even good enough to extract money from these grey economies.....
Whats the solution bring in an ivy league or Asad Umar....
 
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Agreed but the sad part is we are not even good enough to extract money from these grey economies.....
Whats the solution bring in an ivy league or Asad Umar....

This was Asad Umar's fatal flaw. He was well-intentioned and had some great ideas. But he failed to understand that first you have to bring the money in the grey economy into the measurable and taxable economy --- only then can you go for shock therapy. If you do shock therapy too soon, people will just hide/stash their money in crates of cash under their beds if they have to (like most corrupt officials do!)
 
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Agreed --- but a large exporter (even if evading tax) is contributing considerably more than a random employee in some company. Everybody is evading tax wherever they can but at least the export-oriented industrialists bring in forex and 1000s of jobs.
The Suzuki and Honda like so called foreign companies having JVsin Pakistan are the biggest earners and paying least. Their profit percentage in vehicles is in some cases up to 100%. Meanwhile they are having monopoly in vehicles market till now with the full support of Pak Govt. Same is case with Macdonalds and Pizza Hut they directly transfer tax on customers instead of paying from their profits. Even present Govt is taking no steps in order to get proper tax from these companies.

On other hand being a banker can say with full responsibility that more than 90% of exporters have their offshore companies and they have their money deposited in Channel Islands and other tax heavens. They are the biggest sources of tax leakage. Moreover their factories are running on blood money of workers. They treat pretty harshly to their labor force. They have tactics to get EU/Quality assurance certifications, in most cases the inspectors of the organisations are bribed heavily.

The bankers are in first line to become target of tax authorities they openly make threats and strictly monitor banker's incomes. It is a fact that with discouraging previous policies banks faced shrinking profits and shift burden on shoulders of employees. Bankers now earning much lesser than Govt teachers even though they have to maintain much better dressing and vehicles as per bank requirement by own sources as bank on accommodates executives. They cab kicked out any time by their management. In our bank the general banker is facing decrease in combined earnings up to 120,000+ annually.

On one hand one should demand honesty from general public meanwhile on other side Govt should also improve tax policies as well as facilitate people paying taxes.
 
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It takes years to equip a Corps sized formation with a certain type of transport vehicle and decades to equip an army of 700,000 troops. There are almost 4 x Corps sized formations which need MRAPs:

1. XI Corps
2. XII Corps
3. FC Baluchistan
4. FC KPK

On top of that, there are Police, Frontier Constabulary, Levies and Khasadars operating in KPK and Baluchistan regions. Its not a matter of days, or months. It will take years to equip all these formations with MRAP's.

hi i totally agree with you on that it takes years or even decades to equip army with mraps but when did we started to fight insurgency lets just say around 2004 or even late 2005 and your in 2019 .the top brass had so many ways to equip the forces with mraps but they didn't for them the low ranked soldiers or officers life doesn't hold much importance if it did they would have taken actual steps instead of forgetting the basic insurgency fighting equipment's and running around for glory hunting procurement's ...for example all the nato supply to Afghanistan have been going through and coming back into Pakistan when you were begging them for dollars should have had some balls to ask for as many mraps as you could have we had leverage over them but non of the top army brass asked for it because there was no commission to be made by them ....if the americans refused coud have asked British Canadians any one would have supplied them some ....even if that was not good then go to china your getting everything from them any way why not mraps too whats stopping you oo back to square one no commission no procurement ....look at the idiots how they have handled the Bell AH-1Z Viper SAGA somone was getting kick backs under the table so they went for it again like a blind dog ....when the nation is full of traitors that what happens and that is what is expected from them no matter whose sitting on the throne
 
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Don't give me this BS of a logic

Giving few Maxxpro to troops operating in trouble areas like Waziristan or more troubled districts of Baluchistan won't cost billions

Just admit that those on the top don't value human lives. They don''t care about jawans dying.

4 Type054a lainai k liye paisai hain 20 maxxpro lainai k liye paisai nahi hain
You're assuming that those aren't already being used. Pakistan has a lack of armored personnel carriers.

@Army research is 100% correct here. You want defense equipment, pay your taxes. Bullet proof armor and APCs don't grow on trees.
 
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98% percent do not pay tax realistically speaking , statistics back that even you don't nor do your first family pay taxes ,
GST is at 17 percent. Will be increased to 19 percent at the recommendation of IMF.
And that is indiscriminate tax which everyone pays regardless he's rich or poor. From the blade used for undershave to 100 ka mobile load, everything is taxed.

Salaried class pays the taxes as taxes are deducted automatically from their salary. And they are the ones who barely make both ends meet. Sir you should be asking the rich to pay taxes not the majority of Pakistanis who are middle class and don't earn much to begin with.

The people shouldn't be blamed for the incompetence of the governments. It wasn't the people who asked them to ruin the economy by going to the IMF over and over again despite the warnings of people like John Perkins, Mahathir, and Egyptians and the living examples of economies ruined by IMF. Momin aik sorakh se bar bar nahi dasa jata.

Sales tax is different than income tax.
We pay 25-50% tax depending on income and then 14% sales tax on everything in Canada. That's not including property tax and other taxes
Compare the life standards of both countries as well.
A taxi driver in Canada earns more than a qualified engineer in Pakistan.

Most people in Pakistan are barely making both ends meet. The rich trader who earns bucket loads of money and makes sales of lakhs per day sitting in a busy bazar evades tax but the majority of Pakistanis who don't earn much to begin with are blamed for not paying taxes.

Taxes are much more for other items which the govt classifies as "luxury items" (Soap and shampoo are also luxury items)
 
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hi i totally agree with you on that it takes years or even decades to equip army with mraps but when did we started to fight insurgency lets just say around 2004 or even late 2005 and your in 2019 .the top brass had so many ways to equip the forces with mraps but they didn't for them the low ranked soldiers or officers life doesn't hold much importance if it did they would have taken actual steps instead of forgetting the basic insurgency fighting equipment's and running around for glory hunting procurement's ...for example all the nato supply to Afghanistan have been going through and coming back into Pakistan when you were begging them for dollars should have had some balls to ask for as many mraps as you could have we had leverage over them but non of the top army brass asked for it because there was no commission to be made by them ....if the americans refused coud have asked British Canadians any one would have supplied them some ....even if that was not good then go to china your getting everything from them any way why not mraps too whats stopping you oo back to square one no commission no procurement ....look at the idiots how they have handled the Bell AH-1Z Viper SAGA somone was getting kick backs under the table so they went for it again like a blind dog ....when the nation is full of traitors that what happens and that is what is expected from them no matter whose sitting on the throne
In any sort of warfare, only one type of conventional/COIN weapon cannot win a war, every weapon plays its part. As for MRAP's, some 300+ examples were acquired and more are being sorted. While acquiring MRAP's, Army has used other Armored vehicles like M-113 in critical and dangerous areas. A Convoy escort strategy was formed on top of that by using armored vehicles as escorts along with Trucks and Gunships in the air. This proved to be useful especially in transporting personnel and equipment in critical areas. Even with 1500+ examples of M-113 APC's in service, PA did put a few MIB's in FATA Operations. The terrain was found more favorable for helicopter Ops, which resulted in getting more choppers and inducting LCB.

Since you have resorted to importance of soldier's lives, basic insurgency fighting equipment, procurement etc, lets have a look at the following.

When the Military started fighting this war in 2002, PA had to convert from a conventional fighting force into a COIN oriented force. PA was equipped as a conventional military, which also included tactics and strategies. Apart for training for COIN warfare, there was issue of equipment/weapons for COIN oriented troops. The Paramilitary (FC/Levies/Khasadar etc) were hardly mobile and their weaponry needed to be upgraded. Training, equipping, upgrading almost 4 x Corps and all of FC (upwards of 200,000 troops), took not only time but aid and money spent. This happened side by side as billions was lost in continuous attacks on Pakistan cities.

PA had to acquire newer weapons/body gear/comm equipment/NVG etc for FC apart from thousands of vehicles to make it a highly mobile force. In the mean time, FC's strength doubled over the past decade, in both provinces, which meant now double the amount had to be spent on training and equipping them. Meanwhile, the Regular Army had to be upgraded too for COIN Ops, which again meant weapons/body gear/comm equipment/NVG etc had to be acquired for these forces. Aviation and artillery were expanded in the past decade (dozens of newer helicopters and 100+ towed artillery Guns were inducted). Newer infrastructure and defensive positions were built up in the cleared areas on the western sector.

PA formations fighting conventional warfare in the meantime had Al-Zarrar and Al-Khalid MBT's rolling out of HIT, along with new versions of M-113 clones, Talha, Sakb, Mouz, Maaz. POF was busy sending 105mm, 122 mm, 130mm and 155mm ammunition to both the LOC and FATA. PA AD was getting new SAM systems (e.g LY-80) and SP Artillery inducted dozens of M-109's (100+). A-100 MLRS was acquired in previous years. UCAV/UAV were inducted in the last decade. Cantonments, Regimental centres, Formation HQ's and infrastructure (security measures like walls/posts/hardened structures) for units (some 100+ brigade HQ's, 1000+ battalions) were upgraded.

PA started raising newer formations, while continuously upgrading existing ones. LCB were raised and equipped with different weaponry and transports, due to their conversion from foot infantry to tactical units. 34 LID was raised. PMA 4th Battalion was raised to induct more cadets turning into more officers. Another newer form of induction has started and another CPEC division has to be raised.

All of the above shows that a steady system is in place and procurement, on various aspects of warfare challenges that Pakistan Army faces, is in progress. Majority of the above mentioned has not come for free and more has yet to come.
 
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In any sort of warfare, only one type of conventional/COIN weapon cannot win a war, every weapon plays its part. As for MRAP's, some 300+ examples were acquired and more are being sorted. While acquiring MRAP's, Army has used other Armored vehicles like M-113 in critical and dangerous areas. A Convoy escort strategy was formed on top of that by using armored vehicles as escorts along with Trucks and Gunships in the air. This proved to be useful especially in transporting personnel and equipment in critical areas. Even with 1500+ examples of M-113 APC's in service, PA did put a few MIB's in FATA Operations. The terrain was found more favorable for helicopter Ops, which resulted in getting more choppers and inducting LCB.

Since you have resorted to importance of soldier's lives, basic insurgency fighting equipment, procurement etc, lets have a look at the following.

When the Military started fighting this war in 2002, PA had to convert from a conventional fighting force into a COIN oriented force. PA was equipped as a conventional military, which also included tactics and strategies. Apart for training for COIN warfare, there was issue of equipment/weapons for COIN oriented troops. The Paramilitary (FC/Levies/Khasadar etc) were hardly mobile and their weaponry needed to be upgraded. Training, equipping, upgrading almost 4 x Corps and all of FC (upwards of 200,000 troops), took not only time but aid and money spent. This happened side by side as billions was lost in continuous attacks on Pakistan cities.

PA had to acquire newer weapons/body gear/comm equipment/NVG etc for FC apart from thousands of vehicles to make it a highly mobile force. In the mean time, FC's strength doubled over the past decade, in both provinces, which meant now double the amount had to be spent on training and equipping them. Meanwhile, the Regular Army had to be upgraded too for COIN Ops, which again meant weapons/body gear/comm equipment/NVG etc had to be acquired for these forces. Aviation and artillery were expanded in the past decade (dozens of newer helicopters and 100+ towed artillery Guns were inducted). Newer infrastructure and defensive positions were built up in the cleared areas on the western sector.

PA formations fighting conventional warfare in the meantime had Al-Zarrar and Al-Khalid MBT's rolling out of HIT, along with new versions of M-113 clones, Talha, Sakb, Mouz, Maaz. POF was busy sending 105mm, 122 mm, 130mm and 155mm ammunition to both the LOC and FATA. PA AD was getting new SAM systems (e.g LY-80) and SP Artillery inducted dozens of M-109's (100+). A-100 MLRS was acquired in previous years. UCAV/UAV were inducted in the last decade. Cantonments, Regimental centres, Formation HQ's and infrastructure (security measures like walls/posts/hardened structures) for units (some 100+ brigade HQ's, 1000+ battalions) were upgraded.

PA started raising newer formations, while continuously upgrading existing ones. LCB were raised and equipped with different weaponry and transports, due to their conversion from foot infantry to tactical units. 34 LID was raised. PMA 4th Battalion was raised to induct more cadets turning into more officers. Another newer form of induction has started and another CPEC division has to be raised.

All of the above shows that a steady system is in place and procurement, on various aspects of warfare challenges that Pakistan Army faces, is in progress. Majority of the above mentioned has not come for free and more has yet to come.
Let me add in the new comm system which back in 2001 was still early 70s backpack comm for platoon leader , to now 80% plus individual to 100% for deployed troops, deployed troops ( 12 division, that's the one for Kashmir right ? Chinar ) getting G3M , protective gear , induction of a very very large number of locally made ATGM from 2000 onwards , for coin and conv, now hopefully the viper IFV also gets made, as well as a dedicated long range f and f missiles carrying ( akin to javelin) platform for shoot and scoot since we are almost done with coin ,
What I wish to see is a small sized drone ( 2-4 missiles ) detachment of 2-4 drones at brigade level , fixed wing or rotary since Pakistan can't afford heli CAS at that level , these would be good at striking enemy brig logistics
 
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