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misfortune of Pakistan - Why are we beggers ?

Few things Indian should know. Pakistan is new nation, but India is not. Why ?, Before and after 1947, all best institutions from banking to education came under Indian rule. What Pakistan got? nothing, not even part of wealth to run the country. Where famous Indian politicians (don't remember name)said, Pakistan will be back in India,its matter of Time. Few feudal lords and striving hard commoners. Its time for feudal to go.

Its not about what India got and what Pakistan got, its about how we both shaped each other. India’s current democratic structure owes hugely to visionaries like Abedkar and Nehru who saw early that allowing business entities into politics will ruin the democratic structure. Nehru was very stubborn on keeping India more communistic initially to not allow land lords and powerful business to take over the country. He and the congress ensured that the Government gets the final say in all matters and that tradition has continued till now. However weak the government is, it can never be over powered by a single entity or any non-governmental organization. That is the main reason why there has never been an Army coup in India. Pakistan has lacked in this aspect mainly because it tried to go the way of a capitalistic structure too early on in its history and that resulted in the landlords totally taking over the government and all official structures. I find it very difficult for Pakistan today to break out of that bonds, but I hope for the best.
 
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Well, beside blaming. We have army of corrupt people. I know for sure, it this govt fail to feed 20 million homeless people and unable to save 35 lack sick children, It will be bloody revolution.
Because they have enough funds, but no planning. Every days people are dying because of water born disease. Food shortage is expected.
But they are busy planning to steal the aid. That's why I always support US govt independent team need to be set up. Its extreme corruption. US govt provide millions of dollars of soft loan/aid, which expected to pay back, but it goes in foreign accounts of our ministers and Presidential clan.
 
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we (as a nation ) are poor because our politicians are rich (at our expense) make them poor and we(as a nation) will be rich.
 
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Its not about what India got and what Pakistan got, its about how we both shaped each other. India’s current democratic structure owes hugely to visionaries like Abedkar and Nehru who saw early that allowing business entities into politics will ruin the democratic structure. Nehru was very stubborn on keeping India more communistic initially to not allow land lords and powerful business to take over the country. He and the congress ensured that the Government gets the final say in all matters and that tradition has continued till now. However weak the government is, it can never be over powered by a single entity or any non-governmental organization. That is the main reason why there has never been an Army coup in India. Pakistan has lacked in this aspect mainly because it tried to go the way of a capitalistic structure too early on in its history and that resulted in the landlords totally taking over the government and all official structures. I find it very difficult for Pakistan today to break out of that bonds, but I hope for the best.


Small correction mate - and people tend to make that mistake quite often - so don't mind me correcting you. Nehru was not stubborn to keep India communist but to keep India socialist. Communism is a form of govt.; Socialism is a form of economy - people generally make this mistake because the Soviet Union was both.
 
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Small correction mate - and people tend to make that mistake quite often - so don't mind me correcting you. Nehru was not stubborn to keep India communist but to keep India socialist. Communism is a form of govt.; Socialism is a form of economy - people generally make this mistake because the Soviet Union was both.

both can actually refer to economics as both offer a slightly altered view of a society. Socialism as your said is more economically motivated but communism in essence also has a major economic aspect to it. I deliberately mentioned communism as that is what was being aimed at. What our founding fathers aimed at was to draw from the best of communism and socialism and then merge them into a democratic system. What India has till around the late 1980's to early 1990's is sometimes referred to as a communistic socialistic society where the government controls the majority of decisions.One point that is frequently raised to distinguish socialism from communism is that socialism generally refers to an economic system, while communism generally refers to both an economic and a political system. As an economic system, socialism seeks to manage the economy through deliberate and collective social control. Communism, however, seeks to manage both the economy and the society by ensuring that property is owned collectively, and that control over the distribution of property is centralized in order to achieve both classlessness and statelessness. Both socialism and communism are similar in that they seek to prevent the ill effects that are sometimes produced by capitalism.

Both socialism and communism are based on the principle that the goods and services produced in an economy should be owned publicly, and controlled and planned by a centralized organization. Socialism asserts that the distribution should take place according to the amount of individuals' production efforts, however, while communism asserts that that goods and services should be distributed among the populace according to individuals' needs.

Another difference between socialism and communism is that communists assert that both capitalism and private ownership of the means of production must be done away with as soon as possible in order to make sure a classless society, the communist ideal, is formed. Socialists, however, see capitalism as a possible part of the ideal state and believe that socialism can exist in a capitalist society. In fact, one of the ideas of socialism is that everyone within the society will benefit from capitalism as much as possible as long as the capitalism is controlled somehow by a centralized planning system.

Another difference between socialism and communism is centered on who controls the structure of economy. Where socialism generally aims to have as many people as possible influence how the economy works, communism seeks to limit that number to a smaller group.

So I really did mean communism when I said communism :P
 
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Well you live in Pakistan.....so any problem is going to have a impact on you not me, as I live in England. Its up to you to do something....and so far Pakistani's like you have failed in this regard.

This is wat my point is stop talking about pakistan n just keep your focus on england we know very well wat are our needs n requirements

i m only 23 years old n my time for my country n on the rode of failure and success just started u playing guessing with yourself again by saying we have failed pakistan n it's people can never fail keep this in your mind

All this mess in pakistan is the dirty work by our last dictator who joined his hand with uncle sam in the war against terrorism or muslims but today we have one of the most exceptional n talented army chief who understand his role know all the issues on ground you see the best of pakistan in the times of crisis n this is wat worries the world ..
 
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PS: iioal malik ..considering your shallow comments its best to ignore you!
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You know wat mate i am very happy to be ignore n wish i would never get into any discussion with some1 like u :yahoo:god bless
 
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This is wat my point is stop talking about pakistan n just keep your focus on england we know very well wat are our needs n requirements

I can talk what I like....as this is a public forum....if you have a problem with that...talk to the moderator. Quite frankly you are very naive to suggest that you know Pakistan's requirements....because if that is the case...then why is Pakistan in this pathetic state. And I don't need to focus on England because over here we don't have a thieving government.

i m only 23 years old n my time for my country n on the rode of failure and success just started u playing guessing with yourself again by saying we have failed pakistan n it's people can never fail keep this in your mind

So what I am 19...your type of thinking has made Pakistan what it is today. And I am not guessing...I am telling facts...Landlords are prominent in Pakistan.....you have Mafia type organisations.....political structure is flawed.....Army seem's to like dishing out Marshall Law....so what have the Pakistani's done in this regard....nothing....so it is the failure of the people....because they have not responded.....however times are changing I believe...as the current scenrio will force people to rebel.
 
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All this mess in pakistan is the dirty work by our last dictator who joined his hand with uncle sam in the war against terrorism

Oh yes that same Dictator that brought economic growth to Pakistan.....that same Dictator that took Pakistan out of the IMF loan.....that same dictator that gave political respect to Pakistan abroad. Your point has no substance...Mushy has done some mistakes however generally he was a great President who put Pakistan in a very strong Position....yet fate was against him.
 
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GREENSTAR and iioal malik

we were discussing
WHY the country is the state that it is right now ?
HOW have some people looted and abused the country ?
How can we fix the issues ?

iioal malik and GREENSTAT considering your young age, it is understandable you are naive and all worked up;
just know that not every one here is as young as you are.

We are not asserting that the people or the state of Pakistan is at fault.

All we are trying to do is to highlight how ruthlessly these few feudal and bureaucrats have abused the common citizen of Pakistan.

So lets keep highlighting the abuse so every one can see and then try to suggest solutions on fixing it.
 
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Didnt like the title of the thread..

actually its quite appropiate - running to the IFIs like IMF/World Bank etc is the 'easy way out' for our politicians & bureaucrats because they are not used to doing the 'hard work', never have because the politicians and their scions have been raised by the proverbial 'golden spoon' and the 'babus' are corrupt to the core - it is beyond their comprehension to sit together and cobble up solutions for our woes, so whats the best and easiest way-out - u have the answer.

ps>>>what do u expect from a politician holding a 'fake degree'!!!
 
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actually its quite appropiate - running to the IFIs like IMF/World Bank etc is the 'easy way out' for our politicians & bureaucrats because they are not used to doing the 'hard work', never have because the politicians and their scions have been raised by the proverbial 'golden spoon' and the 'babus' are corrupt to the core - it is beyond their comprehension to sit together and cobble up solutions for our woes, so whats the best and easiest way-out - u have the answer.

ps>>>what do u expect from a politician holding a 'fake degree'!!!

Sir Glad to see you here ; and I hope you stick around in this thread.
I feel there is plenty you will be contributing to this cause
 
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Maybe the United States could help Pakistan form a tax collecting system that actually works and knock some sense into politicians who oppose it instead of sending money which is such a temporary fix.

I'm going to tell Musharraf personally about this :P.

dont ask how :P

You will be very surprised that this initiative was undertaken during Mushrraf's time.

I was personally involved in short listing the solution at that time

and guess what, that project vanished like it never existed and all the millions of USD also vanished in tea and patties.

Today FBR (CBR) is capable of collecting all the tax we need, even more than we need

However they are politically protected and made sure that they never do it.

I can tell you, that Nadra's data + CBR + "another data centre near blue area)"

and you can nab each and every tax evader in the country. The only reason it is not being done is because of political cover up from the FEUDAL class.
 
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