MiG-31 "The AWACS Scarecrow" - The Fighter India refused to buy

[Abingdonboy]

Just- NO!! India (especially IAF)has a bitter buyer-seller relationship with Russia and one of the main reasons the MiG-25 was phased out was the lack of spares and the like. Now to some of the points made- the orbit of spy satillites CAN be adjusted so you CAN make them unpredictable. India does have the offer of the Global Hawk in the table if it so wished to take it, in fact the IN is more than likely going to get the maritime version- the MQ-4C. And just because the US has U2s why does that mean India or anyother nation needs them? That is not an argument in itself.

 

[Jon Snow]

I dont think the radar range of the su 30 mentioned is correct.
Its supposed to detect a f-16 sized target at 140km (RCS of f-16 is 1-3m2) so for a 5m2 target the range should be 180-200km. Anyways I dont think the IAF could afford a fighter like the mig 31 in the 80s.

 

[angeldemon_007]

I would say i am with IAF. You cannot predict the path of the satellite you don't know exist. Alot of Indian satellites can do the job of partial spying, enough to gather information that are important for armed forces, its just they fall into civilian sphere and nobody wants to use them for military purpose. US spy satellites have done incredible jobs.

Radar and SAM technology are changing soon, our enemies are not some week countries but they have very big and powerful armies and who spend alot on defence. Sooner or later they will get these techs and aircrafts like Mig31 will become obsolete and this is why US is going for UAV. A Mig31 on a spying mission can't go around bombing especially during peacetime. Economically also, using a satellite in the long run will get cheaper.

As far as Global Hawk is concerned IN is looking for it and it doesn't look that US is refusing. The response more than better. There is a requirement for HALE UAVs in all the sevices and even if S disapprove India's request in the next few years we are gonna see 2-3 HALE UAVs from European countries.

I think we should be patient and not make hasty decisions. Instead of going backward we should go for technologically advanced solution. Its not like Mig 31 is not gonna cost us.

 

[MiG-21]

Good luck trying to get the global hawk. The U.S will never offer that aircraft unless India signs CISMOA. Here that agreement is paramount since India will have to use their standard datalinks to operate that UAV. This isn't an P8 or C-130 where the communication equipment was stripped before it was sent to the IN & the IAF respectively. Probably the main reason why that news died out and never came back again.

@mig-21, very nice article, can u pls provide details of both mig-25 & mig-31. I read that mig-31 was first introduced in 1982, is it worth an aircraft in today's time??

Yup, they are. Or else the Russian airforce won't be spending money in upgrading it as we speak.

Just- NO!! India (especially IAF)has a bitter buyer-seller relationship with Russia and one of the main reasons the MiG-25 was phased out was the lack of spares and the like. Now to some of the points made- the orbit of spy satillites CAN be adjusted so you CAN make them unpredictable. India does have the offer of the Global Hawk in the table if it so wished to take it, in fact the IN is more than likely going to get the maritime version- the MQ-4C. And just because the US has U2s why does that mean India or anyother nation needs them? That is not an argument in itself.

Where do you get your facts from? The MiG-25s were creaking when the time they retired. They were flogged 10 years more than they were designed to fly. They were supposed to be retired by 1996, but IAF pressed them into service till 2006.

The U.S is also populated by normal humans. Do Indians posses some psychic power to allow them to see into enemy territory to make that argument not suitable for India? India has both Pakistan and China to keep an eye on, lets not forget that fact.

The orbit change is only performed in extreme emergency cases. The fuel onboard a satellite is very limited and you can't change orbits like changing your ingress and egress path of an aircraft. If Spy sats were that reliable, the U.S and the Russians wouldn't be using U2s and MiG-31s anyways.

I dont think the radar range of the su 30 mentioned is correct.
Its supposed to detect a f-16 sized target at 140km (RCS of f-16 is 1-3m2) so for a 5m2 target the range should be 180-200km. Anyways I dont think the IAF could afford a fighter like the mig 31 in the 80s.

That is the correct range from official brochures. If someone knows more than the manufacturers themselves then they are obviously delusional or lying.
MiG-31s were offered in 2005.

 

[Hobo1]

Using Brahmos as BVR missile.

 

[janon]

Using Brahmos as BVR missile.

Brahmos is a ground attack missile, not air to air.

 

[Skull and Bones]

One squadron...just one.....

Won't be effective mate, back then Pakistan didn't had any SAM to engage targets flying at mach 2.5 and at an altitude of 15,000 meters, and there was no BVR capable fighter in south Asia. And the necessity of such recon fighters ceased to exists with advancement in satellite imaging, that's why we don't see any SR-71 flying now.

Now as scenario has changed drastically, so be it one squadron or 100, doesn't really make a difference.

 

[tvsram1992]

Why Mig31?
To all UAV and spy sat fans , This is how Mig25s insulted Pakistan . Every one feels now they are scrap but we can make them operational during war . Just like Mig25s were secret , we could have got Mig31s secret .

The MiG-25 was kept a guarded secret in India, and was nicknamed Garuda, after the large mythical bird-like creature from Hindu and Buddhist mythology. It was used extensively in the Kargil War and Operation Parakram, conducting aerial reconnaissance sorties of Pakistan.
In May 1997, an Indian Air Force Mikoyan MiG-25RB reconnaissance aircraft created a furor when the pilot flew faster than Mach 2 over Pakistani territory following a reconnaissance mission into Pakistan airspace. The MiG-25 broke the sound barrier while flying at an altitude of around 65,000 feet, otherwise the mission would have remained covert, at least to the general public. The Pakistan Government considered the breaking of the sound barrier was deliberate to make the point that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had no aircraft in its inventory which can come close to the MiG-25's cruising altitude (up to 74,000 feet). India denied the incident but Pakistan's Foreign Minister, Gohar Ayub Khan, believed that the Foxbat photographed strategic installations near the capital, Islamabad.

UAVs and Spy sats will be supplement to Mig31/25 , not a replacement . Please see it can accommodate double payload than our mkis . Can carry most air to air missiles and its heaviest interceptor .

 

[GR!FF!N]

one of its kind..

but i'm with IAF..future is drone and spy sat,not manned recon aircraft,which can be shot down(though Mig-25's speed gave it advantage it that sector).plus spare is an issue.IAF did right thing by retiring Mig-25.

same goes for Mig-31.Fast Interceptor is a concept that is dying.Air Superiority is replacing this concept.Mig-31 is only Interceptor in the world of its class.SAM is more cost effective system than an Interceptor.plus (Though it's status not clear but we are getting Novator,Right??) R-37 is not needed as we'll have Novator.what we need is more advance multi role fighters just like Rafale and 5th gen strike jets.

 

[MiG-21]

Most of the spying is done only within 100kms from the border. So by the time their slow F-16s would scramble get to height and reach maximum speed, MiGs will already be in Indian Airspace. But the proliferation of BVR missile does pose a threat no doubt, but it something which can be defeated when correct ingress/egress surveillance routes are employed. Also lets not forget AWACS keeping an eye on Pakistani airspace and alerting the MiGs of Scrambles if any. At Mach 2.8, a MiG-31 can dash though 100km in less than 2 minutes. WHat's the time it'll take for the PAF pilots to get dressed, run to their aircraft and get seated? Less than 2 minutes? I don't think so.

The reason why the SR-71 was phased out was because it reached its end of service life and the costly production line was not restarted since the cold war was over. No need for expensive mach 3.2 recon planes when they can get all info on Russian weapons and new developments now on the internet.

During the kargil war it was the MiG-25 which detected the depth and the massive scale of the incursion, not fancy spy sats. Even during the war, after the Strikes from MiG-27s, Jaguars and Mirages, MiG-25s were flown to picture if the damage had any effect on troop deployments. It's use as an Tactical Battlefield Surveillance plane is unmatched by spy sats.

 

[Skull and Bones]

One shyte looking aircraft, but gets the job done.

As a recon platform it might be obsolete, but this platform can be used as an AWACs killer.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

Most of the spying is done only within 100kms from the border. So by the time their slow F-16s would scramble get to height and reach maximum speed, MiGs will already be in Indian Airspace. But the proliferation of BVR missile does pose a threat no doubt, but it something which can be defeated when correct ingress/egress surveillance routes are employed. Also lets not forget AWACS keeping an eye on Pakistani airspace and alerting the MiGs of Scrambles if any. At Mach 2.8, a MiG-31 can dash though 100km in less than 2 minutes. WHat's the time it'll take for the PAF pilots to get dressed, run to their aircraft and get seated? Less than 2 minutes? I don't think so.

The reason why the SR-71 was phased out was because it reached its end of service life and the costly production line was not restarted since the cold war was over. No need expensive mach 3.2 recon planes when they can get all info on Russian weapons and new developments now on the internet.

During the kargil war it was the MiG-25 which detected the depth and the massive scale of the incursion, not fancy spy sats.

BVR is a problem, but pakistanis were more afraid of MiG 25 than any other fighter, i think.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Did i mention there's a version of Mig-31 which can even launch anti-satellite missile?

 

[MiG-21]

BVR is a problem, but pakistanis were more afraid of MiG 25 than any other fighter, i think.

Yea, because it hurts their pride.

I wish the IAF releases the details of the spy ops these MiG-25s carried out since they are now retired. I bet half of the ops were carried out not in pakistan but deep in RED Territory. It would be more interesting to read that than watching a James bond movie.

Did i mention there's a version of Mig-31 which can even launch anti-satellite missile?

Oh! Never knew that. Thanks!

 

[Black Widow]

Did i mention there's a version of Mig-31 which can even launch anti-satellite missile?

There are some good video on MiG25 and 31 on youtube. These machines fly very high,almost near to space. They provide trip as well, if one can spend some money he can get a chance to visit near space experience...

One MiG25 recorded Mach 3+ speed in Sinai desert Egypt. No fighter plane has achived this speed. F15 and MiG31 are Mach 2.5, Su 27 series and F22 is Mach 2.2 max.