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Middle East in the Olympics

IMHO, Saudi is so pathetic that no one really needs to make anything up to ridicule her. Just look at international news networks in Brazil and you will find tons of news about masterpieces of Saudis.
I think you have burnt that "Majoosi-Rafidhis" Iranians are achieving gold medals while P-GCC with billions of dollars of bribery money and investment cannot get a dick in olympics.
Instead of having the mentality of a loser who hates winners, try to pull up your pants and do something in your country.

Saudi Arabia and most Arab and Muslim countries are indeed performing really badly but that is purely down to lack of investments, restrictions and no tradition for marginal sports. It has nothing to do with any height, strength etc. as Arabs are on average bigger and taller than Iranians.

KSA is not even close to being the worst performing country compared to population size, restrictions (nowhere as harsh as in KSA) and investments (nowhere as restricted due to moronic laws). Not even close. I can mention the achievements of 1.3 billion big India, 200 million big Pakistan, 150 million big Bangladesh to prove my point and COUNTLESS of other examples across the world.

Iran is hardly any world beater when it comes to Olympics. They are not even in the top 50 worldwide.

1.3 billion big China, not long ago, were performing horribly too compared to their population size but in recent decades they have changed that for the better. When they were performing badly nobody, aside from ignorant fools, were talking about genetics as the reason for their bad performances.

Do you think that I am envious of two completely unknown (worldwide) Iranian athletes (who are likely on drugs like most other weightlifters etc.) having won 2 gold medals in total so far in a marginal sport?

An Kuwaiti athlete won the first gold medal of any Muslim/ME country and a few Arab countries have already won several medals.

Also unlike a few Iranians, despite ground realities making such an attitude hilarious, you do not see any Arab here, Israeli, Turk or anyone else pretending to be world beaters.

P-GGC? What is that. Should we call Iran an Gulf of Oman country? Or what about an Arabian Sea country?

The inflated false ego is hilarious to witness. Keep it going.

I don't have time to read all this garbage. pay some money to a pschyiatrist and he will assist you ;)

The ground realities apparently hurt your ego. I don't need to seek any help but it appears that you are in need of that given your posts in this thread so far.;)

Anyway continue the chest thumping and congratulations for failing in almost all others sports that you have competed in other than your two primary marginal sports that happen to be your most popular olympic disciplines. I guess the "superior" Iranian genetics were not enough in all other Olympic disciplines so far.:lol:

BTW I heard somewhere (my own head I think) that most of the Iranian delegation was hired or of non-Persian origin.

BTW are you an Turk, Azeri, Qajar, Sayyid, Iranian, Azerbaijani, Persian or Nigerian this time around?
 
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Most of those things sound like excuses.

I think if the government invested in it more we would win a lot of medals.


Things rmi5 said are actually true. It really depends in which sports a country has more traditions, invests more and in some cases has a better lobby. You can't except Turkey to have 3 golds in swimming, 2 medals in gymnastics, medals in fencing, rowing and etc. when these sports are not popular and are basically practiced by a number of people who can hardly fill an inter- city bus. Add the fact that resources we put into developing these sports are small + the fact we lack traditions and good trainers in them + that we doesn't have a lobby in world sports federations in general and that no one is doing anything to introduce those sports to the public. If you want even add the fact that steroids our athletes use are not as good as those western athletes use as in western countries where even farmaceutical giants are involved in the developing of sports... a fact no one admits- every professional athlete uses stuff helping him to get better results but only some get busted.

Right now money in Turkey are being invested in football, basketball, volleyball as the three most popular sports that attract more kids from the country and I can say we are doing on a pretty good level in them on European and in some cases on world stage. Youth and senior teams in those sports- especially in basketball and volleyball are winning medal after medal every year on both club and national team level.Our football teams play in the Champions league and Europa league every year, new stadiums, bases and arenas are being built all the time. The passion in out people for those sports is getting bigger.
Those sports and sports in general are still growing though and are far from the full potential we can achieve in them but the future looks good. But of course we can achieve much more and we should but there should be a government policy to promote sports in schools and among the public. We should learn from the western knowledge in developing sports, we should try to develop those sports where a lot of medals are being won- swimming, athletics, tennis- sports where the biggest stars are. We should continue to try to get better in wrestling, boxing, martial arts, weightlifting- sports where traditionally we have won lot's of medals but somehow in the last years we are stepping back.
 
@Sargon of Akkad
Iranian men are taller than saudi men according to the last research

elife-13410-fig1-v1.jpg


http://www.ncdrisc.org/country-profile.html
 
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@Sargon of Akkad
Iranian men are taller than saudi men according to the last research

elife-13410-fig1-v1.jpg

I saw that research paper and you should have in mind that many others have been published and are published each year. There are also varies surveys out there. Some papers and surveys are more reliable than others.

http://www.averageheight.co/average-male-height-by-country

http://www.averageheight.co/average-female-height-by-country

(Data from July and August 2016)

Notice that I wrote the average here which means the combined average height of men and women. You can do the math.

Also have in mind that KSA is home to almost 10 million expats many of whom originate in countries of a significant lower height such as South Asia, Philippines etc. They are counted in those statistics.

For instance people of Eastern Arabia (UAE) are arguably the highest people in the ME/Muslim world.

However I do not deny that the height of the average Iranian has increased a lot in recent decades. This is not strange as living standards have improved a lot in Iran and you also have had a big increase in population in just 1 generation of time.

However height has really not much to do with abilities in wrestling or weightlifting. In fact it is often a problem to have long arms if you are weightlifter from what i have observed.

Anyway everything that I wrote in my previous posts in this regard should be clear for everyone.

I am actually more interested in knowing when and how you developed your currently strong tradition in weightlifting (of course not all weight categories) and wresting because when I take a look at the history of Iran at the Olympics this was not always the case. It is a more recent phenomenon.

Am I correct when I say that some of that tradition was established during the Pahlavi era? I am well aware of those sports being popular before that era too (sports such as wrestling, horse riding, weightlifting were also traditional and popular Arab sports once - not anymore expect for a very, very small following) in Iran but you are always in need of the right infrastructure, trainers, tradition etc. to excel in. Interest/following and money too. Without that it does not matter if you have the right size, strength or talent.

Let me give you an example here. In KSA around 10% of the population are Afro-Arabs. Meaning that we have around 2-3 million people of African origin/mixed Arab. Jamaica which has a population of around this size, including many smaller Caribbean countries, have a very big tradition of running etc. If KSA had a similar tradition and invested similarly I do not really see why we could not have success on this field too. After all both those populations are of an African stock mainly.

If African-Americans can win hundreds of gold medals for the US and if people of African stock can do the same in many Western countries what stops KSA, other Arab countries and Latin American countries from doing the same? Brazil has a bigger African population than the US and look where they are during athletic competitions? They are nowhere to be seen. Part of the problem, I believe, is due to football being such a dominant sport. This is the same case in the Arab world. Nobody cares about other sports, hardly and there is no traditions and those that were once there (horse riding, fencing, wrestling etc.) have died out long ago.

So instead of exporting militias to the Arab world you should be exporting trainers from sports such as wrestling and weightlifting, lol.

Speaking about that KSA has the fastest 100 m runner among teenagers in the world. His personal record is 10.04. I believe that he might have a chance to qualify for the final tomorrow.
 
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That map is correct I'm 175 :)

So is it true, does the height of the nations increase?

In 500 years will we be like 300cm ? :)

As I remember, I saw @Shapur Zol Aktaf's graphs in a BBC article. As I remember, for some nations like Iran, Turkey, Europeans, Japanese the height has increased and for some middle eastern and african countries it has decreased.
lol, then we'll become giraffes in 500 years!!!
 
@Sargon of Akkad
If you look at the medals which Iran won in 1952 and 1956 you'll see weightlifting and wrestling. That was when Iran just started taking part in olympic games. How it comes that Iran is good in these sports, why these sports are valued in Iran and and since when Iran reached a high level in these sports are interesting questions which I would like to know also.

Maybe because of this ancient tradition/sport of Iranians:

Pahlevani and zoorkhaneh rituals is the name inscribed by UNESCO for varzesh-e pahlavani (Persian: آیین پهلوانی و زورخانه‌ای‎‎, "heroic sport")[1] or varzesh-e bastany (ورزش باستانی; varzeš-e bāstānī, "ancient sport"), a traditional system of athletics originally used to train warriors in Iran and adjacent lands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pahlevani_and_zoorkhaneh_rituals

Today, varzesh-e pahlevani is touted as the reason why Iranians are regular winners at international wrestling and weight-lifting events.
 
@Sargon of Akkad
If you look at the medals which Iran won in 1952 and 1956 you'll see weightlifting and wrestling. That was when Iran just started taking part in olympic games. How it comes that Iran is good in these sports, why these sports are valued in Iran and and since when Iran reached a high level in these sports are interesting questions which I would like to know also.

Maybe because of this ancient tradition/sport of Iranians:

Pahlevani and zoorkhaneh rituals is the name inscribed by UNESCO for varzesh-e pahlavani (Persian: آیین پهلوانی و زورخانه‌ای‎‎, "heroic sport")[1] or varzesh-e bastany (ورزش باستانی; varzeš-e bāstānī, "ancient sport"), a traditional system of athletics originally used to train warriors in Iran and adjacent lands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pahlevani_and_zoorkhaneh_rituals

Today, varzesh-e pahlevani is touted as the reason why Iranians are regular winners at international wrestling and weight-lifting events.

I know that this is a completely irrelevant thing to mention but I have an Iranian friend (who apparently descends from the Qatar dynasty - his surname is Dowlatshahi) who I have trained with and he has used wooden meels that look like this below and introduced me to them. Is that what you are referring to?




As I wrote and as it appears to be the case, wrestling and weightlifting were always popular sports and you kept that tradition/interest alive unlike other nations in the region or world who have lost their previous traditional sports in the sense that they are no longer as popular or have as many participants. For instance I can imagine that horse riding was popular in Iran too historically speaking but nowadays it is probably an marginal sport with little interest or investment. For instance, for what it is worth, KSA won a few bronze or silver medals in equestrian sports but that is partially due to this sport actually having somewhat of a following mostly among the House of Saud family and other wealthy families who own horse farms or have access to them. Because it is very expensive to keep horses and to be a professional equestrian. If you are from a poor family it is almost impossible to succeed unless you have founding from the state. Such a thing is almost unheard of in KSA unless you are really good/talented or from established families.

But if you take a look at the history of Olympics, I mentioned China, Caribbean nations etc. many have started from nothing fairly recently and now they are dominating those disciplines.

Also due to the nature of Iran's regime, which in many ways remind me of Soviet style rule (minus religion) I have noticed that former USSR countries tend to have a tradition of discipline and hard training in many sports. For instance the enormous success of East Germany during the Olympics is a result of such a culture. I guess this is also what sets Iran apart from for instance 100 million big Egypt who should be performing much better in sports in general like pretty much every single Arab country. It is, as I wrote initially, indeed a pathetic situation. Tiny Bahrain for instance has almost 3 times as many competitors as KSA. So until people begin to have an interest in sports other than football, until real investments are made, until the biggest restrictions on the planet due to moronic laws are not removed and until women are not part of this process (again the harshest resections probably or one of the harshest) not much will change I am afraid.

Anyway do you know if Iranian weightlifting or wrestling coaches have trained athletes from the region? Maybe you should try with Lebanon and Iraq and see if your coaches can help establish an presence of those sports that are even remotely as well-versed as in Iran. Just to see if such an experiment could succeed. My guess that it probably very well good if the investments followed suit and if an tradition was developed. Of course you cannot start such "projects" and expect to have success overnight. It would take some time. A decade or two. What do I know.

Anyway congratulations for the wins to the sane/friendly Iranian users here, lol.
 
@Sargon of Akkad,
That picture is indeed zurkhaneh sport/tradition. Zurkhaneh means house of strenght/power.
I wanted to add that taekwondo is not our tradition, but today Iran is one of the best in Taekwondo. So the best way is using the national traditions/experience in some sports and investing in and developing the sports which are less popular.
I saw once Iraqi national wrestling team being trained by an Iranian coach. So like any sport you can give contract to coaches who have experience in some sport.
It's indeed strange that KSA has less competitors than Bahrain. You would think that bigger economy and bigger population would bring more competitors to olympic games and win more medals.
 
@Sargon of Akkad,
That picture is indeed zurkhaneh sport/tradition. Zurkhaneh means house of strenght/power.
I wanted to add that taekwondo is not our tradition, but today Iran is one of the best in Taekwondo. So the best way is using the national traditions/experience in some sports and investing in and developing the sports which are less popular.
I saw once Iraqi national wrestling team being trained by an Iranian coach. So like any sport you can give contract to coaches who have experience in some sport.
It's indeed strange that KSA has less competitors than Bahrain. You would think that bigger economy and bigger population would bring more competitors to olympic games and win more medals.

I saw a documentary once where they showed this sport and tradition in action in Isfahan. It was an documentary in Arabic about Iran where they mostly covered the West and South of the country. For instance they visited the Iranian Arab community and areas of Iran where they are present. It was an quite interesting documentary.

Ok, I did not know about that. Well that would make sense as Taekwondo is a somewhat related sport, at least when it comes to wrestling. I guess the next goal could be boxing.

Anyway most Olympic medals can be won in the disciplines of swimming and athletics but the competition there is very strong so it is much harder.

Well if/when relations between GCC (wider Arab world too) and Iran improve (eventually they probably will, lol) such a policy would be a good thing. If not Iranian coaches then coaches from say former USSR republics. Theoretically it could have been done DECADES ago if people (rulers, decision makers) in the GCC really wanted but the interest/tradition is simply not there. However that can always be established as argued for earlier. So it is mostly about will, politics and planning.

Anyway KSA has many restrictions due to a few moronic clerics who consider all sport a waste of time. They have for example made life horrible for women and many people who like sports. It is a scandal but there is nothing to do other than waiting for them to die of old age/change. People have wanted such changes since forever. You hear some encouraging news from time to time but often it ends in nothing.

An example. Next year the situation will likely be the same.


AGENCIES | Published — Tuesday 2 August 2016


abebbb8breema.jpg

Princess Reema — Honored to serve Kingdom of Saudi Arabia​

RIYADH: Saudi Arabia’s Cabinet appointed a prominent princess to head a new department for women under the Kingdom’s General Authority for Sports in a move that could signal greater female access to sports.
The announcement, made after the weekly Cabinet session Monday evening, offered no details about Princess Reema bin Bandar’s role.
“I am honored to serve my nation,” SPA quoted Princess Reema as saying.
The Kingdom is sending four female athletes to the Olympic Games in Rio De Janeiro, marking the second time that Saudi women will participate in the Olympics.
These sportswomen include marathon runner Sarah Al-Attar, judoka Wujud Fahmi, fencer Lubna Al-Omair and 100m runner Cariman Abu Al-Jadail.
Both Attar and Fahmi were returning to the Games after they became the country’s first female Olympians in London four years ago.
In a first in 2014, a Saudi state school introduced sports for girls, after a call for lifting a ban on women in sports.
The General Authority for Sports’ website lists no details about its activities or mission. A separate government portal shows the agency is responsible for issuing licenses to establish new sports centers and handles youth registration in sports.
In a decree in May, King Salman ordered the General Presidency for Youth Welfare to be renamed the General Authority for Sports. The former body had sponsored cultural and sports activities for youth.
In April last year, the king sacked the most senior woman in government, Nora Al-Fayez, from her post as deputy education minister for girls. She was strongly pushing to try to get physical education on the curriculum for girls in public schools.
Princess Reema, whose father Prince Bandar bin Sultan served as Saudi ambassador to Washington for more than two decades until 2005, is a graduate of George Washington University with a degree specializing in museum studies, Islamic art and architecture. In the Kingdom, she is widely known for having served as chief executive officer of the upscale Harvey Nichols department store in the capital, Riyadh, which was among the first retailers to hire women as sales clerks.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/963601/sports

Wujud Fahmi (that big Judoka) is of Indonesian origin. Around 500.000 Saudi Arabians are of Indonesian/Malaysian origin, lol. This is the second olympics were women from KSA even participate. 4 women have participated in total only.:lol:

I think that, although there are restrictions in Iran, they are not as bad on this front at least.

The problem with KSA is that many people are too conservative (they often compete who is more conservative) and stick to moronic recent laws that have nothing to do with culture or traditions. It is thanks to a few powerful and radical/extremist clerics who I believe are mentally challenged. Then they brainwash people who give similar views to their children.

KSA only has 14 athletes and I believe that Bahrain has almost 40 but 20% of them (if not more) are not really native Bahrainis but people who have lived in Bahrain for some years or who have become neutralized. Earlier today I saw an Black 100 meter runner who competed for Turkey and he was apparently from Jamaica and he had become neutralized. Anyway this policy is only followed by 3 Arab states. Bahrain, Qatar and UAE. This is probably due to the huge amount of money they have (not Bahrain), much lesser restrictions than in KSA and the interests of people in sports and professional leagues in those countries that attract foreigners who later become neutralized if they are good enough. Most importantly, probably, there small native populations. No other Arab countries have such a policy but actually quite a few countries worldwide have such policies. I am not really a fan of it but I have nothing to say about it.
 
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@Sargon of Akkad
It's good that saudi women are taking part in olympics and sports. Yes I think Iran has less restrictions for sportswomen compared to Saudi Arabia, but still we don't make use of our potential in women sports and you know the reason...I think same reason as in KSA.

Has saudi olympic competitors for Equestrian?
They would make a chance...
Lately Iran has also developed well in volleyball, ranking 10th in the world. I don't agree with "buying" sportmen and women, it's false competition. If they immigrated to those countries for other reason, that's an other story. But now they buy them and give them nationality only to pick some medals at the olympics.
 
@Sargon of Akkad
Has saudi olympic competitors for Equestrian?
They would make a chance...
Lately Iran has also developed well in volleyball, ranking 10th in the world. I don't agree with "buying" sportmen and women, it's false competition. If they immigrated to those countries for other reason, that's an other story. But now they buy them and give them nationality only to pick some medals at the olympics.

A good question. It is one of the more popular marginal sports in the country and there have been a few Saudi Arabian equestrians who have won Olympic medals and other regional and international competitions. But as I told before it is mostly wealthy people who have this sport as a side hobby. Nothing extremely competitive from what I have seen/heard about.

Those 4 (Ramzy Al Duhami, Abdullah Al Saud, Kamal Bahamdan, Abdullah Sharbatly) won bronze in some equestrian discipline in London 2012.





In 2012, a young female Saudi Arabian equestrian named Dalma Rushdi Malhas competed but this year she did not due to an injury if I recall.



Female physical education was only introduced in 2014, after a ban since the Grand Mosque Seizure in 1979, and it is very limited from what I know and only very few public schools have it on the program. So the situation is not exactly perfect in this regard, LOL. So when people ask, what about KSA, they should do a bit of research first and don't expect miracles to occur. At least we are doing marginally better or as bad as nations that have zero restrictions and much, much larger populations so there is definitely hope.

May I ask if there are special sports schools like in the West in Iran? Such a thing does not exist in KSA.

Yes, I agree. I do not like it either unless the neutralized person marries with a citizen, lives in the country for some time before acquiring nationality and has a relation, for instance competition in that country on a weekly basis.

Anyway it is very common for many athletes in different sports from athletics, swimming, handball etc. to "shop around" from one country to another. Thankfully this is not allowed in the world of football. I mean once you have competed for a national team in a official game you cannot change again.

Thanks for the exchange and take care. I have to go.
 
A good question. It is one of the more popular marginal sports in the country and there have been a few Saudi Arabian equestrians who have won Olympic medals and other regional and international competitions. But as I told before it is mostly wealthy people who have this sport as a side hobby. Nothing extremely competitive from what I have seen/heard about.

Those 4 (Ramzy Al Duhami, Abdullah Al Saud, Kamal Bahamdan, Abdullah Sharbatly) won bronze in some equestrian discipline in London 2012.





In 2012, a young female Saudi Arabian equestrian named Dalma Rushdi Malhas competed but this year she did not due to an injury if I recall.



Female physical education was only introduced in 2014, after a ban since the Grand Mosque Seizure in 1979, and it is very limited from what I know and only very few public schools have it on the program. So the situation is not exactly perfect in this regard, LOL. So when people ask, what about KSA, they should do a bit of research first and don't expect miracles to occur. At least we are doing marginally better or as bad as nations that have zero restrictions and much, much larger populations so there is definitely hope.

May I ask if there are special sports schools like in the West in Iran? Such a thing does not exist in KSA.

Yes, I agree. I do not like it either unless the neutralized person marries with a citizen, lives in the country for some time before acquiring nationality and has a relation, for instance competition in that country on a weekly basis.

Anyway it is very common for many athletes in different sports from athletics, swimming, handball etc. to "shop around" from one country to another. Thankfully this is not allowed in the world of football. I mean once you have competed for a national team in a official game you cannot change again.

Thanks for the exchange and take care. I have to go.

She doesn't look arabic at all is she half?

DalmaRushdiMalhas.jpg


rdv-dalma-tmagArticle-1.jpg


Nice, me likey :nana:
 
@Sargon of Akkad,
That picture is indeed zurkhaneh sport/tradition. Zurkhaneh means house of strenght/power.
I wanted to add that taekwondo is not our tradition, but today Iran is one of the best in Taekwondo. So the best way is using the national traditions/experience in some sports and investing in and developing the sports which are less popular.
I saw once Iraqi national wrestling team being trained by an Iranian coach. So like any sport you can give contract to coaches who have experience in some sport.
It's indeed strange that KSA has less competitors than Bahrain. You would think that bigger economy and bigger population would bring more competitors to olympic games and win more medals.

Sometimes I think the whole thing is a circle effect. For example, if we get an award in something, people get interested in it, more join, better exposure, and better budget for it, which means, more awards, and so on.

I think an example is volleyball. Who cared about volleyball before? Now everyone cares about the matches because we always do well in world championships.
 

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