Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

[iLION12345_1]

Just wondering if you both mean the same 'AK'.

The Klashankov is a timeless and versatile weapon

(I am aware of the correct spelling, just wanted to add that Pakistani flair)

 

[Raja Porus]

There are no MIBs in AK regiment, only nine HAT battalions.

Sir jee, I think he meant Alkhalid tanks.
Btw I doubt that all Azad Kashmir regts are HATs because I know some which have been heavily involved in WOT(however their original AORs may mean that they are HATs).
I think it's like" All HATs are AKs but not all AKs are HATs"?

 

[Reichmarshal]

Expected, seeing them after quite a while. They’re not stock either.
Doesn’t matter much though, even excluding them PA has plenty of tanks. These would still be useful In infantry support and against non-tank targets.
The sooner they get replaced the better though, they have really poor protection. Even an RPG would make short work of them in many cases… VT-4, AK-1 and AK-2 are replacing them thankfully.

AK 2 only exists on paper right now, its not replacing any thing in the forseeable future.
Rpg penetrated Abrams in Iraq and Turkish/russian n syrian tanks in syria, all with advanced or fairly advanced armor.
Under the right conditions rpg would make short work of most tanks.

 

[truthseeker2010]

Just to quote one of my posts from another thread....

Problems of supplying Indian Strike Forces in Desert

Can 13 divisions (1 and 21 Strike Corps, along with supporting attacks by 10 and 12 Corps, plus reserves standing by) be supported in the desert sector? This does not appear likely. Lets see a possible scenario.


· The northern end is anchored by X Corps with two large divisions, an (I) armored brigade and an (I) brigade a total of ten brigades.

· The middle is I and II Strike Corps with may be three armored, one mechanized, one RAMFOR, two RAPID and two infantry divisions plus one or two ( I ) brigades.

· The southern end is XII Corps with two divisions plus at least one (I) brigade.

· The naval component is an amphibious brigade to the west.


The amphibious brigade will be supported by the Navy by sea, so the army does not have to support it .


There should be no difficulty in supplying and supporting X Corps, as it will advance only a short distance from its bases, which are all located on rail heads.

The initial supply of XII Corps is not as simple, because there is only the rail head at Bhuj and the road network is minimal. Still, cross- country movement through the Kutch in winter should be possible along carefully reconnoitered routes, as the marshes would have dried up to a considerable extent.

It is the nine divisions with I and II Corps that are worrying. The supplies required for the war would have been laboriously assembled over the past four months through the rail heads at Barmer, Jaisalmer, and Jodhpur. But this is a huge force, and that too over the worst terrain in any of the plains sectors. Moving the supplies forward and into Pakistan to support the advancing troops will prove almost impossible only some fraction of the troops can be supported, and this reduces the odds that Pakistan faces.

While the armored spearhead has full trans desert mobility, all the wheeled supply vehicles used for support and for the infantry divisions are limited in this respect. It is unclear if the supplies required for an entire corps can be moved along one or two temporary desert roads since normally, a railhead is required to support a corps.

We can estimate that each division will require for each day’s combat consumption a thousand tons a day for an armored/mechanized division and about half that for an infantry division. The usage of the divisions themselves may well be less, but when all the supporting troops are added, and as the distance from the forward dumps to the front increases with the advance, the logistical requirements increase.


It can be argued that a rapid advance reduces the supply requirement because fixed battles, so greedily demanding of artillery ammunition, are avoided. Against this, the lack of proper roads of any sort multiplies wastages in transport. For example, we know from the World War 2 North Africa experience that three times as much fuel is required as might be thought.

In the desert, limited off road mobility creates another problem. Any blockade of the road leads to blocking of all movement behind the block because possibilities of going around the obstruction are limited. On a road where supplies are competing with the infantry moving up behind the armored spearhead, the possibilities for confusion and a breakdown of all movement are only too obvious. And it is not as if the movement is one way: empty vehicles, evacuated equipment and units, and redeploying units will all be fighting for space.

And as yet no account has been taken of enemy resistance and interdiction which will compound the difficulties by a factor of ten.

It may safely be concluded that the possibilities for supporting nine divisions, including four fully armored and mechanized, and two partially so, are dim. It will not just be the lower priority infantry that will be limited by supply constraints, it will be the spearhead itself. This will reduce Indian margin of superiority against Pakistan.

The operational problem in the Great Indian Desert is, simply, the sand that lies upto 7 meters deep. In the Mideast and North African Deserts the sand cover is shallow. Bulldozers can quickly sweep paths for advancing troops. Wide ranging maneuver is possible, to the extent that the desert actions of World War 2 have been compared to naval battles finding a flank was always troublesome, because both sides would keep going south of each other.

Tracked vehicles have a low footprint - the weight of a 40-ton T-72 tank is distributed along several square meters of tracks, thus reducing pressure on sand to less than that of a two-ton jeep. The jeep will sink into the sand, the tank will float.

Tracked vehicles can move freely in the desert, but not so their wheeled support and the un-mechanized infantry. Some mobility is provided by low-pressure tired vehicle and by aluminum track-ways. The latter is laid at a pace of about 2-3 kilometers an hour by specially equipped vehicles.

There is a difference, however, in laying a few kilometers of matting to help a division across sandy stretches, and laying matting to allow two corps to advance, and two more to operate on their flanks, to distances of hundreds of kilometers.

If the matting stayed laid, there might still be some reasonable prospects of supporting a quarter of a million troops in the desert, provided a very large engineer contingent is available. But because the sand is so deep, it shifts easily under the movement of heavy vehicles, wind and its own internal dynamics. This means the roadways have to be constantly maintained and re-laid.

Once Bikaner-Suratgarh railway line was being re-laid, an Indian newspaper article mentioned a 15-day sandstorm that halted all work. One hates to think what that would do to 40,000 vehicles in the desert.

During the early days of the 1971 War, Mr. K. Subhramanyam suggested that the success in the desert should be reinforced. As advances in other sectors were non-existent or slow, a third division should be committed to the desert. He was told that this was impossible, because our desert terrain required specialized equipment and training: forces from other sectors would not be able to function in this environment at such short notice.

So, in full scale war pak army would require 25,000 tons of supplies per day to sustain its operations, given 1000 ton per armd/mech div and 500 per ID.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Sir jee, I think he meant Alkhalid tanks.
Btw I doubt that all Azad Kashmir regts are HATs because I know some which have been heavily involved in WOT(however their original AORs may mean that they are HATs).
I think it's like" All HATs are AKs but not all AKs are HATs"?

Then there are no tank battalions in our army, we have regiments.

You misunderstood me, I meant to say that out of the 45 odd AK units, only some are mechanized and all these are HAT units. There are no MIB or LAT units in AK regiment.

 

[Najaf A. Changezi]

There are no MIBs in AK regiment, only nine HAT battalions.

I was talking about HAT battalions as they're MIBs equipped with M113A2 and BGM-71 TOW of AK and they're having good record currently with ongoing exercises and operational efficiency

 

[Najaf A. Changezi]

Sir jee, I think he meant Alkhalid tanks.
Btw I doubt that all Azad Kashmir regts are HATs because I know some which have been heavily involved in WOT(however their original AORs may mean that they are HATs).
I think it's like" All HATs are AKs but not all AKs are HATs"?

I was talking about Azad Kashmir (battalions) not Al Khalid since this thread is about mechanized infantry unless someone has already posted something about armoured corps here..

Btw most of the stuff I learned was from you guys as I've been on this forum as guest for past 2 years.

 

[Najaf A. Changezi]

Then there are no tank battalions in our army, we have regiments.

You misunderstood me, I meant to say that out of the 45 odd AK units, only 9 are mechanized and all these are HAT units, numbering from 37 till 45. There are no MIB or LAT units in AK regiment.

HAT are considered MIBs in the army

 

[iLION12345_1]

AK 2 only exists on paper right now, its not replacing any thing in the forseeable future.
Rpg penetrated Abrams in Iraq and Turkish/russian n syrian tanks in syria, all with advanced or fairly advanced armor.
Under the right conditions rpg would make short work of most tanks.

HIT chairman mentioned AK-2 production starting soon, it means after AK-1 production ends in a couple of years, it’s gonna be similar to VT-4 in some regards, will use its tech.

I am aware RPGs can penetrate tanks, not frontally, but if the side has no added armor (as is the case with all Pakistani and Chinese tanks) then it will go through, it will obviously go through the rear as well.

 

[PanzerKiel]

HAT are considered MIBs in the army

Nopes dear, they are a separate category, not MIB....

Nopes dear, they are a separate category, not MIB....

... Apart from MIB, LAT, APC BORNE and an ITV company.

 

[Najaf A. Changezi]

Nopes dear, they are a separate category, not MIB....

... Apart from MIB, LAT, APC BORNE and an ITV company.

HAT is their specialized role after converting into MIBs..one of my friend belongs in such units.

 

[PanzerKiel]

HAT is their specialized role after converting into MIBs

Nopes dear, MIB is a separate type of unit, having its own tables of organization and equipment, different mission, different role and different posting stations.... Everything different from HAT .

 

[iLION12345_1]

HAT is their specialized role after converting into MIBs..one of my friend belongs in such units.

Panzerkiel is from the PA as well, he knows what he’s saying, not that you and your friend are wrong, just making sure you know

 

[Najaf A. Changezi]

Nopes dear, MIB is a separate type of unit, having its own tables of organization and equipment, different mission, different role and different posting stations.... Everything different from HAT .

Can you explain the differences in detail or is it classified to explain them openly? Interested to know..

 

[PanzerKiel]

Can you explain the differences in detail or is it classified to explain them openly? Interested to know..

Everything is different, as highlighted in my last post.... Starting from equipment to Manpower and weapons.