Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

[DESERT FIGHTER]

But you did buy 282 t55's

No, else Ministry of Defence would have mentioned it in the annual yearbook, aswell as our media would have picked up.

But you did buy 282 t55's

As I said we hundreds of better variants tanks we are phasing out or upgrading into AZ status. Such a sale would literally make zero sense at all.

But you did buy 282 t55's

The report originated from a Serbian outlet, “Blic”, that claimed Serbia & Pak will sign a contract for modernised T-55s. Which never was....

What they seemed to forget was that Pakistan itself produces and upgrades its old Type series into Al Zarrar status. With over 550 in service while older are being phased out slowly by AKI & expected AKII. Some making their eay to Paramilitary forces like Frontier Corps who operate them along the Afghan border.

Zarrar MBT:

 

[JPMM]

The terrain (creeks + marshes) doesn't allow large-scale armour movement towards/from Gujarat.

Mechanized Div's were raised with holding corps (5 and 31) purely as defensive formations to fend off IA's numerically superior armoured/mechanized forces. During wartime,

• Malir-based 25 Mech Div is expected to join 18 Inf Div defenses north/south of Chor.

• Pano Aqil-based Mech Div (being raised) is expected to join 16 Inf Div defenses north/south of Pano Aqil & Rahim Yar Khan.

• Bahawalpur-based 26 Mech Div is expected to join 35 Inf Div defenses north of Rahim Yar Khan upto Bahawalnagar.

That said, PA does have other things under consideration incl. conversion of these Inf Div's into RAPID-like formations having a mechanized bde each and raising more HAT forces.

@JPMM

It would be the logical move, each InfDiv having allready an Armoured Regiment and a Light AT Battalion, its only missing the extra MechInf Bn?

 

[Bossman]

But you did buy 282 t55's

You will see them at the upcoming Taliban victory parade in Kabul.

 

[Gryphon]

It would be the logical move, each InfDiv having allready an Armoured Regiment and a Light AT Battalion, its only missing the extra MechInf Bn?

One Inf Bde converted to Mech Bde with 1× Armd Regt + 2× MIB. Detached Inf Bn converted to HAT.

Done with Bahawalpur-based 35 Inf Div.

 

[JPMM]

One Inf Bde converted to Mech Bde with 1× Armd Regt + 2× MIB. Detached Inf Bn converted to HAT.

Done with Bahawalpur-based 35 Inf Div.

There were many reports that several InfDivs were becomming Mech, but when we see a M113 with an InfDiv like that photo of 35 InfDiv, its the Mech Bde refered above.
The true Mech Divs are not "Infantry" and from what a see they have:
1x ArmBrig (1x ArmReg + 1x ArmRecReg + 1x MIB)
2x MechBrigs (1 x ArmReg + 1x MIBn + 1x HAT Bn)
1x SP ArtBrig (3x SP Medium Regs)

Are the new Kornet ATGMs used to equip the HAT Bns in the new MechDiv? , becouse there are no new TOW being supplied!​

Their two HAT Bns should have 24 Kornet each.

The 3x ArmRegs with 44 Al-Khalid each and the ArmRecReg with 26

Al-Khalid.

The new MechDiv should have Al-Khalid-I instead of Al-Khalid, M109L instead of M109A5 and Kornet instead of TOWs.​

That way the US were not allowing Pak Army expansion to form more MechDivs and they just went to alternative markets (Italy/M109L and Russia/Kornet)

The ArmRecReg must have BS ATGMs mounted in Maaz, becouse you bought 52 Kornet, 24 in each HAT and 4 in training.

The orders are for 220 Al-Khalid-I, so 158 will be with new MechDiv and there are 62 left.​

Were will they go?
​

Thanks​

 

[Gryphon]

There were many reports that several InfDivs were becomming Mech, but when we see a M113 with an InfDiv like that photo of 35 InfDiv, its the Mech Bde refered above.

Bdes with Divisional armd regt + 2×MIBs have a different nomenclature in PA. Not called Mech Bde.
​

The true Mech Divs are not "Infantry" and from what a see they have:
1x ArmBrig (1x ArmReg + 1x ArmRecReg + 1x MIB)
2x MechBrigs (1 x ArmReg + 1x MIBn + 1x HAT Bn)
1x SP ArtBrig (3x SP Medium Regs)

2× IABG + 1× IMBG.

One Mech Div has 2× SP Med Regt's + 1× Med Regt in Div Arty. I believe same is the case with the other one.

Are the new Kornet ATGMs used to equip the HAT Bns in the new MechDiv? , becouse there are no new TOW being supplied!

Their two HAT Bns should have 24 Kornet each.

The 3x ArmRegs with 44 Al-Khalid each and the ArmRecReg with 26

Al-Khalid.

The new MechDiv should have Al-Khalid-I instead of Al-Khalid, M109L instead of M109A5 and Kornet instead of TOWs.​

That way the US were not allowing Pak Army expansion to form more MechDivs and they just went to alternative markets (Italy/M109L and Russia/Kornet)

The ArmRecReg must have BS ATGMs mounted in Maaz, becouse you bought 52 Kornet, 24 in each HAT and 4 in training.

The orders are for 220 Al-Khalid-I, so 158 will be with new MechDiv and there are 62 left.​

Were will they go?
​

Thanks​

Can't say if Kornet-equipped HAT's will be with new Mech Div as units are rotated between formations.

M109L's are still US origin, third-party transfer was approved by USG.

220 Al-Khalid 1's will be divided into 5 regt's - 44 MBTs each.

 

[striver44]

You will see them at the upcoming Taliban victory parade in Kabul.

There is a highr chance that taliban will capture US supplied tanks and Armored vehicles than having pakistan supplied them. Just because the afghan army is SHIT.

 

[Bossman]

There is a highr chance that taliban will capture US supplied tanks and Armored vehicles than having pakistan supplied them. Just because the afghan army is SHIT.

Taliban’s cannot operate M1s, T55s they can and have a history of doing it.

 

[Signalian]

There were many reports that several InfDivs were becomming Mech, but when we see a M113 with an InfDiv like that photo of 35 InfDiv, its the Mech Bde refered above.
The true Mech Divs are not "Infantry" and from what a see they have:
1x ArmBrig (1x ArmReg + 1x ArmRecReg + 1x MIB)
2x MechBrigs (1 x ArmReg + 1x MIBn + 1x HAT Bn)
1x SP ArtBrig (3x SP Medium Regs)

Are the new Kornet ATGMs used to equip the HAT Bns in the new MechDiv? , becouse there are no new TOW being supplied!​

Their two HAT Bns should have 24 Kornet each.

The 3x ArmRegs with 44 Al-Khalid each and the ArmRecReg with 26

Al-Khalid.

The new MechDiv should have Al-Khalid-I instead of Al-Khalid, M109L instead of M109A5 and Kornet instead of TOWs.​

That way the US were not allowing Pak Army expansion to form more MechDivs and they just went to alternative markets (Italy/M109L and Russia/Kornet)

The ArmRecReg must have BS ATGMs mounted in Maaz, becouse you bought 52 Kornet, 24 in each HAT and 4 in training.

The orders are for 220 Al-Khalid-I, so 158 will be with new MechDiv and there are 62 left.​

Were will they go?
​

Thanks​

Armored Recon had light tanks in past. Don't think PA will put AK in Armored Recon role. Recon is usually wheeled and 4 x 4.

 

[Dazzler]

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Is that from the parade?

 

[Signalian]

It would be the logical move, each InfDiv having allready an Armoured Regiment and a Light AT Battalion, its only missing the extra MechInf Bn?

each inf div should have an armored bde instead of just armd regt and LAT

 

[Armchair]

I think rotating tanks and infantry and matching them up randomly is a poor choice. Better would be if the infantry supporting the armour is well known and organic to the armoured brigade.
This would allow better coordination and esprit de corps. And would allow these infantry to specialise in how to protect armour and work alongside them.

 

[JPMM]

each inf div should have an armored bde instead of just armd regt and LAT

Yes in respect of those 13 InfDivs at the East (8 deployed at IB + 2 deployed in LOC +3 with Strike Corps), waste of Money for those 4 deployed in the West and not necessary in 12th InfDiv.
There should allways be Corps reserve formations (IABGs and IIBGs) avaiable to the Corps Commander, making im possible influence on the developing battle situation.
This whould mean 13 extra ArmRegs (572 Tanks) with all its cost, Logistic support necessary and it could result in those extra Tanks being of a low grade type (knot first line).
We did sow this type of formations in Sadam Army in 1990, their combat performance was very bad, they had T55/T62/Type59/Type69.
They simply dont have fighting power to make the diffrence against a 1st line Armoured/Mechanised Division. They make numbers on paper during peace time, but the cost/logistic off that extra Armoured Regiment and Mechanised Battalion will not be proportionate to their fighting value.
It has much to do with the terrain were the InfDiv will deploy. Maybe 4 extra ArmRegs for those 4 InfDivs at the IB of those two Southern Corps.
Thanks

 

[Signalian]

Yes in respect of those 13 InfDivs at the East (8 deployed at IB + 2 deployed in LOC +3 with Strike Corps), waste of Money for those 4 deployed in the West and not necessary in 12th InfDiv.
There should allways be Corps reserve formations (IABGs and IIBGs) avaiable to the Corps Commander, making im possible influence on the developing battle situation.
This whould mean 13 extra ArmRegs (572 Tanks) with all its cost, Logistic support necessary and it could result in those extra Tanks being of a low grade type (knot first line).
We did sow this type of formations in Sadam Army in 1990, their combat performance was very bad, they had T55/T62/Type59/Type69.
They simply dont have fighting power to make the diffrence against a 1st line Armoured/Mechanised Division. They make numbers on paper during peace time, but the cost/logistic off that extra Armoured Regiment and Mechanised Battalion will not be proportionate to their fighting value.
It has much to do with the terrain were the InfDiv will deploy. Maybe 4 extra ArmRegs for those 4 InfDivs at the IB of those two Southern Corps.
Thanks

Since I was talking about Armd Bde so I obviously meant Inf Divs devoid of the ones deployed on Mountains.

The Infantry Divs own offensive power is 9 (infantry):1 (Armor) ratio. That is 12-15 tanks to support a Brigade or 4-5 tanks to support an infantry battalion, whether in offense or defense. AT units whether LAT or HAT are mainly defensive, again can be distributed and attached to Infantry battalions. Loss of tanks, loss of ATGM luanchers will affect performance of Infantry Div which is supposed to operate independently too since it has all the support units along with fighting units under its command. If an Inf Div has an Armored Bde with 2 Armor Regts, there will be 24-30 tanks supporting a Brigade or 8-10 tanks supporting an infantry Battalion. The chances of success of an Ops increase.

Inf Divs are supported by units from other formations to mount a successful Ops since Inf Divs in PA have just strength enough to stand own ground in case of an attack. Even in WOT, few Inf Divs were diluted to send units to western theater since full relocation of Inf Divs wasn't considered enough and viable in some cases.

Take 4 Corps HQ, Lahore as an example, which has:
10th Infantry Division
11th Infantry Division
212th Independent Infantry Brigade Group
4th AD Brigade
Corps Artillery Brigade
3rd IABG
and probably another Independent Infantry Brigade Group from 30 Corps (Sialkot) deployed under its AOR.

To mount an offensive, either one of the two Inf Divs (10th ID or 11th ID), lets say 10th ID with IABG or IIBG will be thrown in the mix. The only tanks left with the Corps after this will be Armor Regiment of 11th ID. Else than this Corps HQ will ask for GHQ Armor Reserves (GHQ will either send reserves or dilute an armor regiment from any other Inf Div/Mech Div/Armor Bde and send it) otherwise 11th ID will stay on defensive through out the war.

Almost same case with 30 Corps HQ Gujranwala/Sialkot.
31 Corps HQ (Bahwalpur) and 5 Corps HQ (Karachi) could have all their IABG and IMBG under Mech Div HQs. So there might not be any armor to be attached to their Infantry Divisions. 11 Corps HQ (Peshawar) and 12 Corps HQ (Quetta) will be sending at least one of their Infantry Divisions towards Eastern border (India) in case of war, which again have only 1 Armor Regiment each.

In 1971, 23rd Inf Div which made gains into IOK was bolstered with units from other formations so it could successfully conduct an Ops. With its own units, 23rd ID would never have gained ground into IOK.

IABG is a Corps Asset. The Corps HQ may or may not use IABG to support Inf Div Ops. The Corps HQ can use it in different other methods independently, even holding it as reserve.

Indian Army is an infantry dominated Field Army, however it has RAPIDs and then IBGs, which can be very effective in attack or defense. PA can successfully defend attacks from RAPID or IBG through an Infantry Division, but mounting an attack on RAPID or IBG will require more armor for PA's Infantry Division.