Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

[Inception-06]

@iLION12345_1 @Raja Porus I would recommend to transform this 1980s Infantrymen to a true mechanised storm infantry.Pakistani infantrymen are I’ll equipped compared to what a brute force they have to face from the other side of the Border. That’s the actual show:

How many MGs do you need
2,3,4 ?
Cost, reloading, turret aiming, targets etc all have to be consisted

The NATO military’s and Israeli seems to be stupid to have more machine guns.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Why not both.

APS can play havoc with close infantry around the tank. Its splinters can be deadly to whoever is near the tank. That has to be taken care at all times once APS is activated and mechanized infantry is also near the tank.

More Machine guns against Infantry and a combination of a passive/active protection made in Pakistan against enemy ATGM.


@iLION12345_1 why we can’t finde on any pictures the 7.62mm inside Pakistani made Tank series, it’s even not produced in Pakistan. Would you prefer a additional MG-3 on the turret of the AL-Zarrar Tank ?


I would also recommend smoke tubes,a additional MG-3 gun with gun shield on all M-113 series, do you agree ? Why most Pakistani M-113 don’t have smoke grenade launcher tubes ?
@Beny Karachun do you think it’s necessary to have gun shields for machine gun stations on the M133 APC, did it proved to be effective and sense wise, also I can count most of times 3x machine gun on Israeli APC series, what’s the purpose? ( I think I know it but I am asking for gathering public here).View attachment 892838View attachment 892844

It all comes down to the roles and our doctrine, that how we intend to use our M113s.

 

[Inception-06]

@Raja Porus The main focus lies on training and upgrading existing weapons. The Firing Squad of Pakistani M-113 is based on a 60mm mortar carrier team, MG-3 machine gun team, a dedicated sniper, a Signal trooper, the anti Tank team is equipped with a RPG-7, while this whole team can expect a little fire support from the M-113 12.7mm board gun. The weapons and infantrymen equipment are outdated and inferior compared to the Indian hordes.

I recommend NATO STANDARDS, which are effective, war proven, and economicall, because the current firing squad equipment and the APC just need some minor intelligent updates which can be done with the help of Pakistani defence industry.

See that’s the actual trend and show on the battlefield:

 

[Inception-06]

APS can play havoc with close infantry around the tank. Its splinters can be deadly to whoever is near the tank. That has to be taken care at all times once APS is activated and mechanized infantry is also near the tank.


It all comes down to the roles and our doctrine, that how we intend to use our M113s.

I understand that, the doctrine says “ fast battle Taxi” I know, but the firing squad can be more effective trough minor infantry weapon and equipment upgrades. And battle taxi doctrine is outdated and would not survive against the Indian hordes. There needs to be a change, the Viper idea was not bad and is the right direction. Even the Germans in 75 years ago did know that the transport vehicle must support and fight with his dismounted infantrymen, otherwise it’s waste. That’s why Wehrmacht continued to upgrade its “battle taxis” and the equipment of the firing squads.

 

[Tipu7]

Count the numbers of machine guns !
@Beny Karachun why Israeli Tanks have so many machine guns installed on Tanks, does it benefit to suppress enemy’s infantry more then a single one ? What’s the main reason ?View attachment 892768

Israel has developed its armor to suite variety of combat environment, from desert to urban. Higher number of machine guns of varying caliber means better fire converge against threats of varying type. Such requirement often emerge in urban conditions.

 

[Inception-06]

Israel has developed its armor to suite variety of combat environment, from desert to urban. Higher number of machine guns of varying caliber means better fire converge against threats of varying type. Such requirement often emerge in urban conditions.

And in Indian Pakistan war scenarios specifically in Punjab it suits very well, just analysis the geographic and count the Indian mechanised formations there.

 

[Raja Porus]

have gun shields for machine gun stations on the M133 APC, did it proved to be effective and sense wise, also I can count most of times 3x machine gun on Israeli APC series, what’s the purpose? ( I think I know it but I am asking for gathering public here).

Transparent Gun Shields are effective. However, perhaps PA doesn't use them because it won't be employing the APCs as aggressively as the Israelis or the US in Vietnam.

1.MG-3 should get a double drum magazine and a modernization Kitt that allow existing MG3 inventory to be upgraded. It adds picatinny rails for optics and accessories, an adjustable stock, improved sling and a very nifty fore grip that doubles as a carry handle

I was thinking the same. The current MG3 is perfect for SIB but cumbersome for mech inf. The time taken for dismounting and then employing it would be costly.

@iLION12345_1 @PanzerKiel would recommend to make the mechanised Infantrymen more effective by giving the M-113 troops better fighting weapons, to transform it something like a storm infantrymen. The main focus lies on training and upgrading existing weapons.

1.MG-3 should get a double drum magazine and a modernization Kitt that allow existing MG3 inventory to be upgraded. It adds picatinny rails for optics and accessories, an adjustable stock, improved sling and a very nifty fore grip that doubles as a carry handle.
2.The G-3 men or/designated marksman rifle should also get a upgrade kit for his rifle.
3.The rest of the Trooper which carries the Type-56 rifle should get the option install a grenade launcher on their rifle.

Supplement to the RPG-7 or as a replacement the anti Tank tasked Trooper must get a modern and shoulder light ATGM such as the Alcotán-100.

As I said before the M-113 should be transformed into fighting machines which supports the storm infantrymen with two board machine guns.


View attachment 892849View attachment 892850

Current MIB platoon is most likely:
1× SigO
1×RPG/Alcotan
1-2×MG
1×2IC
1×Cmdr(gunner)
5-6× riflemen

 

[Inception-06]

Transparent Gun Shields are effective. However, perhaps PA doesn't use them because it won't be employing the APCs as aggressively as the Israelis or the US in Vietnam.

I was thinking the same. The current MG3 is perfect for SIB but cumbersome for mech inf. The time taken for dismounting and then employing it would be costly.

Current MIB platoon is most likely:
1× SigO
1×RPG/Alcotan
1-2×MG
1×2IC
1×Cmdr(gunner)
5-6× riflemen

What’s about the 60mm mortar? And why shouldn’t Pakistan Army use the APC aggressively as the hole world does it ? What I would recommend is to diversify the 5-6 rifle men in G-3 carrier and Type-56 carriers equipped with under-barrel grenade launchers. G-3 has his own advantages, it could be give the better marksman trooper’s. While the Sniper will have his Sig. @PanzerKiel what is the current status of a M-113 firing squad, is there really anything like the ALCOTAN for this crews reserved or still the RPG-7 and the 60mm Mortar and G-3 are this part of the firing squads ? What’s your thoughts any recommendations, compared to the Indian APC and firing squads?

 

[Beny Karachun]

I thought the namer was based on the T-55.. or was the Achkarit(or something close)

Hahahahah no, it's a different type of beast.
Namer APC variant with Trophy and a RCWS 50cal:

IFV variant with Trophy, 30mm RCWS autocannon and 2 Spike missiles:

This is the Achzarit:

 

[Foinikas]

Hahahahah no, it's a different type of beast.
Namer APC variant with Trophy and a RCWS 50cal:
View attachment 892977
IFV variant with Trophy, 30mm RCWS autocannon and 2 Spike missiles:View attachment 892976
View attachment 892975View attachment 892974

This is the Achzarit:View attachment 892978

I love both the Namer and the Achzarit. I think Israeli armored vehicles are some of the most beautiful in the world. I'm especially fond of the Merkava Mk.III but I also love all the rest of the local upgrades and versions of the M113 and other vehicles.

 

[Beny Karachun]

I love both the Namer and the Achzarit. I think Israeli armored vehicles are some of the most beautiful in the world. I'm especially fond of the Merkava Mk.III but I also love all the rest of the local upgrades and versions of the M113 and other vehicles.


View attachment 893012

Honestly I'm disgusted by the Achzarit and the Puma we have, Namers are a dream.

They're too old. Relatively armored, but too old.

 

[Foinikas]

Honestly I'm disgusted by the Achzarit and the Puma we have, Namers are a dream.

They're too old. Relatively armored, but too old.

Achzarit was very good back in the '90s and throughout the 2000s,but now Hamas etc. have heavier AA weapons and probably use different tactics. Probably. Because,generally,their way of fighting hasn't changed much since the First Intifada,except the massive rocket barrages.

Namer is sooooo beautiful!

 

[Raja Porus]

Imagine this, 48 Shorter ranged missiles for engaging swarm drones, PGMs etc; 6×med range AA missiles providing AD up to 25kms and 1×30mm Gatling gun.
Also capable of firing on the move.
Couple this with other SPAAGs that PA may be buying.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1587752567781597184

 

[Beny Karachun]

Achzarit was very good back in the '90s and throughout the 2000s,but now Hamas etc. have heavier AA weapons and probably use different tactics. Probably. Because,generally,their way of fighting hasn't changed much since the First Intifada,except the massive rocket barrages.

Namer is sooooo beautiful!

Basically, yeah. They will be replaced by the Eitan.

It's going to be a VERY major fire boost to Israel.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Imagine this, 48 Shorter ranged missiles for engaging swarm drones, PGMs etc; 6×med range AA missiles providing AD up to 25kms and 1×30mm Gatling gun.
Also capable of firing on the move.
Couple this with other SPAAGs that PA may be buying.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1587752567781597184

How is that a copy of the Iron Dome? Only similarity is the arrows on the missile canister lol.