Mavi Marmara will sail again to Gaza, head Turkish activist says

[TechLahore]

Partially...That mean there was some sort of land blockade that was greater than this easement today. That is the point -- That Egypt's fear about Hamas in Gaza causing problems for Egypt is greater than any concern for the Gaza populace.

The Mavi Marmara was not carrying weapons earlier and it will not be carrying them in future either. Not only this, but due to the presence of notable international human rights activists on board along with the elevated media coverage the mission received, Israel knew this quite well. So in the context of this thread and the Mavi Marmara discussion, the "Arming Hamas" argument is really not relevant. Clearly Israel attacked and killed innocent people on the Mavi Marmara, not to prevent weapons being delivered to Hamas, but rather to show that it will not stop even at the slaughter of innocents to enforce its illegal blockade.

As for Egypt, of course Egypt is completely within its rights to prevent arms smuggling across its borders. That said, Israel continues to complain that the official Egyptian position is a ruse, and in fact, Egypt is allowing weapons to go through. I don't believe the Israelis, but nonetheless, here is one reference:

Israeli official complains of Egypt's slack security measure on Gaza-Egypt border. - Free Online Library

 

[KS]

Partial blockade is unacceptable. It must all be lifted. It will be interesting to see how Israel will approach another attempt. Knowing all eyes of the international community will be on them this time.

I guess it will the SAME response. When was the last time Israel cared about International opinion or in this case 'eyes' ?

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

I just hope there are no children on board this time around .......

 

[EjazR]

Israel is unfortunately stuck in a game of diminishing returns.

Mavi Marmara was not the first attempt to break the blockage. There were other land and sea based attempts. Right now there is an Asian solidarity caravan starting from India but having activists from all over Asia trying to break the blockade.

So the "harsh response" from Israel actually encourages more people to attempt to break the siege and does not deter them.

 

[Bang Galore]

Sad to see that protests against an illegal blockade of an oppressed people are "publicity" in your mind.

I'm no fan of the Israeli treatment of the Palestinian people which I find abhorrent It is just that actions like the one being advocated only serve to bring publicity to the activists while leaving the situation on the ground same as before. The major problem in Gaza is Hamas. As long as Hamas behaves the way it does, the Israeli position will always find a hearing. Grandstanding by activists also have taken attention away from a more important issue; Israel's policy of continuing to build settlements on the West Bank. This is under the control of Fatah who are supposed to be Israel's partners for peace as opposed to the "terrorist" Hamas. The undermining of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is the stupidest thing that Israel can do. The inability of Netanyahu to deal with his hardline allies makes the prospect of any peace process daunting and may eventually destroy any remaining credibility of those Palestinians negotiating with the Israelis.

The focus of the international community should be on this problem as well as the status of East Jerusalem rather than be distracted & caught up in antics of publicity obsessed protesters who will probably achieve nothing.

 

[Jigs]

I guess it will the SAME response. When was the last time Israel cared about International opinion or in this case 'eyes' ?

They cared quite a bit actually considering they are trying to make a deal with Turkey to save their troops from legal persecution. I doubt even the AKP would stand for more civilians killed especially if Israel decides again to raid the ship in international waters. If it is true that 50 ships will join the overall flotilla then Israel is going to have major problems stopping that many ships full of civilians reaching Gaza. The more violence Israel uses to stop these aid ships the more it will lose in the international community.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

They cared quite a bit actually considering they are trying to make a deal with Turkey to save their troops from legal persecution. I doubt even the AKP would stand for more civilians killed especially if Israel decides again to raid the ship in international waters. If it is true that 50 ships will join the overall flotilla then Israel is going to have major problems stopping that many ships full of civilians reaching Gaza. The more violence Israel uses to stop these aid ships the more it will lose in the international community.

No chance of Israel committing the same blunder twice.

 

[Jigs]

I'm no fan of the Israeli treatment of the Palestinian people which I find abhorrent It is just that actions like the one being advocated only serve to bring publicity to the activists while leaving the situation on the ground same as before. The major problem in Gaza is Hamas. As long as Hamas behaves the way it does, the Israeli position will always find a hearing. Grandstanding by activists also have taken attention away from a more important issue; Israel's policy of continuing to build settlements on the West Bank. This is under the control of Fatah who are supposed to be Israel's partners for peace as opposed to the "terrorist" Hamas. The undermining of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is the stupidest thing that Israel can do. The inability of Netanyahu to deal with his hardline allies makes the prospect of any peace process daunting and may eventually destroy any remaining credibility of those Palestinians negotiating with the Israelis.

The focus of the international community should be on this problem as well as the status of East Jerusalem rather than be distracted & caught up in antics of publicity obsessed protesters who will probably achieve nothing.

The more times Israel reacts with violence the more it has to lose. Gaza war changed a lot of peoples view of Israel. When normal people open the newspaper and see Israel attacking aid ships it becomes less and less logical for them to try to defend the states actions. I have had many American friends here completely change their views after what they saw happen on that aid ship.

 

[Jigs]

No chance of Israel committing the same blunder twice.

I wouldn't go as far as to say they wouldn't commit it twice. Seeing as the commando raid came after they bombed one of the most populated areas into rubble (schools and U.N. buildings included). I honestly believe Israeli government is out of touch with the international community. This may have to do with having the lobbied support of the U.S. always on its side. Soon that may be the only country that supports them on these violent acts. Their PR wing is really what keeps that state supported. You would be amazed at how much they invest in PR especially in the U.S.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

The more times Israel reacts with violence the more it has to lose. Gaza war changed a lot of peoples view of Israel. When normal people open the newspaper and see Israel attacking aid ships it becomes less and less logical for them to try to defend the states actions. I have had many American friends here completely change their views after what they saw happen on that aid ship.

That was not an Aid Ship. That was a contingent of political activists accompanied by a huge media contingent. There is a big difference.

If they wanted to give out aid, they could have landed in Egypt. But they wanted to prove a political point. We all saw how they were antagonising the Israeli authorities.

 

[Jigs]

That was not an Aid Ship. That was a contingent of political activists accompanied by a huge media contingent. There is a big difference.

If they wanted to give out aid, they could have landed in Egypt. But they wanted to prove a political point. We all saw how they were antagonising the Israeli authorities.

Lifting the blockade and getting aid to Gaza was the point. You should understand these are not people who recognize the blockade Israel has imposed on the people of Gaza. Seeing as the ship carried a heavy amount of Aid and the people had no weapons (i dont view sticks and kitchen knives as weapons) it was a Aid ship. I am pretty sure i would have invited as much media as possible to document everything that took place. So people know how Israel reacts to aid workers.

 

[gambit]

The Mavi Marmara was not carrying weapons earlier and it will not be carrying them in future either. Not only this, but due to the presence of notable international human rights activists on board along with the elevated media coverage the mission received, Israel knew this quite well. So in the context of this thread and the Mavi Marmara discussion, the "Arming Hamas" argument is really not relevant. Clearly Israel attacked and killed innocent people on the Mavi Marmara, not to prevent weapons being delivered to Hamas, but rather to show that it will not stop even at the slaughter of innocents to enforce its illegal blockade.

As for Egypt, of course Egypt is completely within its rights to prevent arms smuggling across its borders. That said, Israel continues to complain that the official Egyptian position is a ruse, and in fact, Egypt is allowing weapons to go through. I don't believe the Israelis, but nonetheless, here is one reference:

Israeli official complains of Egypt's slack security measure on Gaza-Egypt border. - Free Online Library

You cannot have it both ways. If Egypt stop land convoys to inspect to prevent arms smugglings into Gaza, the Egyptians must do this under the presumption of guilt until proven innocent, which mean Egypt and Israel are in sync. If Egypt is allowing arms into Gaza, either willfully or neglect, but especially willfully, then Egypt is guilty of siding with Hamas in an armed conflict against Israel, in violation of the peace treaty between the two countries. As for the naval blockade, it that is 'illegal', so is Egypt's land blockade.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Lifting the blockade and getting aid to Gaza was the point. You should understand these are not people who recognize the blockade Israel has imposed on the people of Gaza.

But that's the point. That's a political motive, not a humanitarian one. Saying that I don't recognize your internal/foreign policy was the point of the ship, not delivering aid. They knew that Israel would not let them through, yet they embarked on their journey. What does that tell you?

Oh, and by the way, embargo on Gaza has also been imposed by Egypt, yet it is Israel which is always villified. Why don't they stand on Egypt's marine borders with their cargo (I still refuse to call it aid).

 

[Jigs]

But that's the point. That's a political motive, not a humanitarian one. Saying that I don't recognize your internal/foreign policy was the point of the ship, not delivering aid. They knew that Israel would not let them through, yet they embarked on their journey. What does that tell you?

It tells me a aid flotilla is trying to break a blockade that not only them but many others see as a illegal one. If the ships had little to no aid i would see the point more. Or if they did it once and never again your argument would hold more value.

Oh, and by the way, embargo on Gaza has also been imposed by Egypt, yet it is Israel which is always villified. Why don't they stand on Egypt's marine borders with their cargo (I still refuse to call it aid).

Certainly something that also must be looked at. Egypt is playing double standards here and putting it all on Israel it looks like. That being said it is not Egypt that is bombing Gaza or attacking aid flotilla. I am willing to look at things objectively. The bigger treat to the people is Israel both in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

[Iqbal_Brar]

stupid really... if israeli shoot out the engines of the ships... they will need dat many more to tow them all back... lolll... need to get more innovative.. duhh...