Maulvi Nazir Admits Targeting US Troops

[Awesome]

"Hopefully you guys will be ready to jump on them as soon as they arrive."

They will get through. Kasrkin is correct that it's probably impossible to perfectly seal the border. Our troops still seem eager, though, to find, fix, fight, and finish the enemy.

We'll see 17,000 more but if I had my choice they'd be used to help secure elections, attack Helmand and Kandahar, introduce ourselves to Nimroz and Farah, and provide more trainers to the Afghan army.

By trainers, I mean combat units that can work with a parallel structure on a continuing basis. That way we're training and fighting at the same time.

The border's a beast. We've deep respect for the terrain and the enemy.

Even if they get through, we must send every undocumented Afghani back to Afghanistan, ASAP. Terrorist or not.

These guys are a real pain in the butt for all Pakistanis and they will continue to plan an and attack everyone, as long as they are in PAkistan they will do it from Pakistani soil. It's not about ceding territory, its about whatever we do will be tough action which the entire world will criticize us for it.

You westerners really need to take back the Afghanis back. With or without their consent. This matter can be solved in an year, once they are locked up in Afghanistan with no access to the outside world. How hard could it be to seal the border really? You guys have like trillions of dollars to throw away at hired contractors, how about spending them on leveling out the terrain along the border and getting each side to control their people.

Seriously, when Dubai can build a whole Palm tree shaped Island on water, can't you guys do the work of leveling out the terrain? Now its obvious Pakistan can't afford it, but we all know you guys can. And you guys are under attack, if you really want a solution, seal that border.

It's a question of wills.

 

[S-2]

"Even if they get through, we must send every undocumented Afghani back to Afghanistan, ASAP. Terrorist or not."

That's certainly your nation's privilege to choose to do so.

"...its about whatever we do will be tough action which the entire world will criticize us for it."

Maybe, Asim. Maybe not. It's a resource and management issue. What can you humanely accomplish given your present costs to harboring these people and the benefits derived by beginning this process of repatriation? If done well with a compassionate approach and end-goal, perhaps others will assist and allow the expansion of scope and means.

"You westerners really need to take back the Afghanis back. With or without their consent."

Temperature rising...moving to rant. Would you like for our army to come get them?

"You guys have like trillions of dollars to throw away at hired contractors..."

Stay within the realm of believable please? You can easily access the aid we've allocated to Afghanistan. We make a greater contribution than anybody and it's high time that if this planet wants a greater say in shaping these decisions that these countries put their money where their mouths are-all of them.

"...how about spending them on leveling out the terrain along the border and getting each side to control their people."

EXCUSE ME?!! Asim, are you chasing the dragon? Do you propose that we apply nuclear reconfiguration to your lovely border mountains and all within? A stunning comment to make that concerns me...sorta, kinda...

"Seriously, when Dubai can build a whole Palm tree shaped Island on water, can't you guys do the work of leveling out the terrain?"

Sure. Just as soon as they quit shooting at us and the hindu kush decide they've quit growing. Don't let moss grow under your feet on that one, hoss.

 

[S-2]

The real issue, of course, on this thread are Pakistani militants under the direction of Nazir, Bahadur, and Mehsud making loudly clear their intent. This is coupled by the comments of an ANP official indicating that there remains far too much a tangible relationship and support from your government to these men.

I suppose America and others should just "understand"? Do I get to read more excuses about how your army is legally constrained from operating in these lands? Or how recruits from Gilgit simply couldn't be expected to acculturalize sufficient to defend another portion of their nation?

The absence here of serious commentary on this issue is disconcerting.

Thanks.

 

[SSGPA1]

The real issue, of course, on this thread are Pakistani militants under the direction of Nazir, Bahadur, and Mehsud making loudly clear their intent. This is coupled by the comments of an ANP official indicating that there remains far to much a tangible relationship and support from your government to these men.

I suppose America and others should just "understand"? Do I get to read more excuses about how your army is legally constrained from operating in these lands? Or how recruits from Gilgit simply couldn't be expected to acculturalize sufficient to defend another portion of their nation?

The absence here of serious commentary on this issue is disconcerting.

Thanks.

I think issue is lack of trust between the USA and GoP.

If GoP is getting info that US and Allies are providing cover to RAW in Afghanistan then of course the GoP and PA will try to have Nazir and others on their sides.

US and Allies can close down the Indian consulates around our border and also help ISI to capture terrorists like Brahamdagh Bugti in order to gain trust of GOP.

In return PA will be able to fight and clear our border towns. Situation on hand is that PA is fighting the Talibs and on the other hand RAW is supporting anti-Pakistan activites from Afghanistan. Why should we fight two wars.

There is a lot of rant about US aid as well here. US aid is nothing for the help US is looking from Pakistan. There are US companies with bigger budget.

Last but not least, if anyone thinks that Afghanistan can be won without help from Pakistan then that person should re-examine the whole situation.

An increase of 17000 or 170000 will not mean anything without help from Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The real issue, of course, on this thread are Pakistani militants under the direction of Nazir, Bahadur, and Mehsud making loudly clear their intent. This is coupled by the comments of an ANP official indicating that there remains far to much a tangible relationship and support from your government to these men.

I suppose America and others should just "understand"? Do I get to read more excuses about how your army is legally constrained from operating in these lands? Or how recruits from Gilgit simply couldn't be expected to acculturalize sufficient to defend another portion of their nation?

The absence here of serious commentary on this issue is disconcerting.

Thanks.

There isn't much new to discuss here - its all been discussed a while back, when we were analyzing the 'Good vs Bad Taliban'.

IMO, there is a significant paucity of resources and men (given the terrain and local support, and hostility with India) for Pakistan to conduct military operations simultaneously and decisively all across FATA and Swat. To that end it was speculated the the Bajaur operation would work its way into Mohmand, Khyber etc. and that once we saw the North largely stabilized, we might see the PA move into the Waziristan's.

On the ANP legislators comments, they need to be viewed through the prizm of the ANP's relationship with the Army - to me they seem more reflective of the reality of pre-911 ISI support for the Taliban.

The military did cooperate with Nazir when he was fighting B Mehsud, that's not a secret. The PA provided artillery support for his operation against Mehsud's militia.

I do not see what the ANP leader is using as justification for the assertion that the ISI is still supporting Nazir, when the falling out between him and the PA was pretty clear with the increased frequency and efficacy of drone attacks on his territory, especially the one that almost killed him.

There is no dichotomy between his views on attacking NATO primarily and hostility towards the ISI. This inter-Taliban deal has been brokered by Mullah Omar reportedly, and Omar has been insistent for a while now that the TTP stop fighting the PA and focus on Afghanistan.

For now, and/or as long as the alliance lasts, the three, Mehsud, Nazir and Bahadur, will do what Omar asks, while itching to attack the PA as well.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

man i m begining to like this guy S2 . he has became celebrity of our forum by posting his thoughts and analysis over afganistan.

YES S2 IS RIGHT COZ AMERICA CAN WIN THIS WAR BY INCREASING TROOPS ALONG THE BORDER. AT THE SAME TIME ALLOWING RAW TO TRAIN ANTI PAK ELEMENTS AND THEN USE THIS FACTOR TO IMPOSE DEMANDS OVER PAKISTAN. LIKE CUT TIES WITH CHINA . GIV KASMIR TO INDIA . HAND US OVER ALL YOUR NUKES . AND THEN AMERICA COULD DEVISE A WAY TO TEST ITS LATEST WARMACHINERY IN THE BATTLEFEILD OF PAKISTAN

OH someone plz just slap me coz i m havin a nightmare

And one thing Pakistan is a hard-target , so you simply cant dispatch missiles against a moslim country armed with nukes.
You need to giv us aid coz you need us to keep Pakistani talibans busy .
Afghanistan has became an adventurous theme park which is attracting many concerned all over the world . So you guys definately need more trops inorder to have more fun rit.
And believe it or not its an indian interst to keep Pak Army busy along the westren border. If US can dig out the fact that ISI is double crossing then wat abt the Indian Cosulates operating in Afghanistan.
Oh plz S2 do tell me abt the Indian cosulates , i like to here it from yo.
After all we are your friends

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

man i m begining to like this guy S2 . he has became celebrity of our forum by posting his thoughts and analysis over afganistan.

YES S2 IS RIGHT COZ AMERICA CAN WIN THIS WAR BY INCREASING TROOPS ALONG THE BORDER. AT THE SAME TIME ALLOWING RAW TO TRAIN ANTI PAK ELEMENTS AND THEN USE THIS FACTOR TO IMPOSE DEMANDS OVER PAKISTAN. LIKE CUT TIES WITH CHINA . GIV KASMIR TO INDIA . HAND US OVER ALL YOUR NUKES . AND THEN AMERICA COULD DEVISE A WAY TO TEST ITS LATEST WARMACHINERY IN THE BATTLEFEILD OF PAKISTAN

OH someone plz just slap me coz i m havin a nightmare

And one thing Pakistan is a hard-target , so you simply cant dispatch missiles against a moslim country armed with nukes.
You need to giv us aid coz you need us to keep Pakistani talibans busy .
Afghanistan has became an adventurous theme park which is attracting many concerned all over the world . So you guys definately need more trops inorder to have more fun rit.
And believe it or not its an indian interst to keep Pak Army busy along the westren border. If US can dig out the fact that ISI is double crossing then wat abt the Indian Cosulates operating in Afghanistan.
Oh plz S2 do tell me abt the Indian cosulates , i like to here it from yo.
After all we are your friends

Please stay on topic.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

There is no dichotomy between his views on attacking NATO primarily and hostility towards the ISI. This inter-Taliban deal has been brokered by Mullah Omar reportedly, and Omar has been insistent for a while now that the TTP stop fighting the PA and focus on Afghanistan.

For now, and/or as long as the alliance lasts, the three, Mehsud, Nazir and Bahadur, will do what Omar asks, while itching to attack the PA as well.

If thats rit then they must be having sypethizers and financiers behind their back.
They cant fight on their own. Whos the third party ?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If thats rit then they must be having sypethizers and financiers behind their back.
They cant fight on their own. Whos the third party ?

Dr. Opium, Octo-dopedealer and Mr. Gunrunner.

US intelligence has also pointed at weapons from Iran, and other reports from the North have indicated a heavy weapons and drugs trade stretching into Europe through the CAR's.

 

[S-2]

I'm aware of the past PREDATOR attacks on both Mehsud and Nazir and Nazir's comments about how such attacks endangered agreements already in place to divert towards Afghanistan. This was news last fall.

I'm also aware that these specific comments relate to the agreement reached a few weeks ago and brokered by Omar. The significance of such was the truce between Mehsud (on one side) and Nazir/Bahadur (on the other side), allowing Mehsud access to the afghan border for his Pakistani and uzbek henchmen.

Certainly these men and their affiliates (to include A.Q. lurking in the backgrounds of both Mehsud and Nazir) can't but be welcomed by Omar and constitute his own mini-"surge" as we head into the spring fighting season.

I agree about the ANP legislator's comments. They lacked specificity and seemed a legacy of a old conception...or not. The suspicions still exist and both these agreements and the grossly general accusations play on this. How accurately or not, I don't know. She possibly wasn't the best resource but, then again, who knows what's known or seen in NWFP/FATA?

I can't recall where (perhaps one of Rabzon's or Muse's op-eds) but an 11 year old girl was heard to remark to her father that the talibs can be seen wherever the army is but that the army can't be seen where the talibs are.

The writer actually attributed names to both-God help them- but the saliency of the observation is unassailable. Perhaps our ANP legislator isn't relying upon a gross generalization. I hope that's not the case.

Thanks for the useful thoughts.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I can't recall where (perhaps one of Rabzon's or Muse's op-eds) but an 11 year old girl was heard to remark to her father that the talibs can be seen wherever the army is but that the army can't be seen where the talibs are.

Very likely a true observation- with the agreements in Waziristan, the PA isn't exactly conducting aggressive patrolling and operations, and is likely confined to their check posts and forts. The Taliban are probably monitoring PA movements, and actively training and moving freely themselves.

We saw the same situation in Swat - the PA being criticized for sitting around and not acting against the Taliban even when they set up camp right next to them. That of course was the result of the ANP's own 'peace deal'.

The writer actually attributed names to both-God help them

Some journalists deserve to be shot.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

US intelligence has also pointed at weapons from Iran, and other reports from the North have indicated a heavy weapons and drugs trade stretching into Europe through the CAR's.

Will Iran support insurgency against P.A . Its a new thing. I thought India is suppporting TTP rit..

 

[S-2]

"Dr. Opium, Octo-dopedealer and Mr. Gunrunner.

US intelligence has also pointed at weapons from Iran, and other reports from the North have indicated a heavy weapons and drugs trade stretching into Europe through the CAR's."

A little S-2 analysis revealed the following based (here) on memory of the 2008 UNODC report-

I think 159,000 planted hectares of opium last year in Afghanistan-down about 18% from 2007. Yield was only down about 6% though, owing to increases in crop yield per hectare. Most important was that 147,000 hectares of that crop were planted in Helmand, Farah, Kandahar, Oruzgan, and Nimroz in descending order...and boy does it descend falling from 103,000 hectares in Helmand to 15,000 hectares in Farah.

Viewing the ICOS incident map so mis-interpreted here reveals the loci of attacks. It's clear that the battle is fought where the people are. For all the claims of 72% control, what we really see is a massive contest for the green zones of Helmand and Kandahar developing and an equally large battle being fought for the Kabul-Jalalabad axis.

They are very large areas but are discrete when weighed against the total size of Afghanistan. Where they differ and where 72% ACTUALLY comes to play is in the population densities of these areas. Here lies Afghanistan's people for the greatest part...and it's opium.

"US intelligence has also pointed at weapons from Iran..."

Maj. Gen. Mart de Kruif, commander RC-SOUTH, has dismissed EFPs anyway. In a recent press-briefing w/ the PENTAGON press crew he suggested that IEDs constitute the greatest threat and that seems confirmed by Nazir's comments. However, he suggested that his staff have seen none of the sophisticated explosive devices that were commonplace to IRAQ.

Maybe small arms, maybe not. I'm not convinced that this is a major issue yet and my understanding is that the mullahs and the taliban had a horrendous relationship. Still...

Finally speaking of dope in the south, I've long been predicting that we'll be moving south of Garmsir city for the first time in this war. That's a lot of land but as my figures about opium in Helmand indicate, most of it likely lies SOUTH OF GARMSIR CITY. This district and it's neighbor districts to the west extend a couple of hundred kilometers south to the Pakistani border.

Lots of opium and targets. Royal Marine Commandos and the ANA just conducted a major reconnaissance-in-force to this area for the very first time and it looks to be the opening gambit of a long and nasty spring, summer, and fall. This year will be HUGE-

Royal Marine Commandos and ANA Take Fish Hook

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Will Iran support insurgency against P.A . Its a new thing. I thought India is suppporting TTP rit..

According to US intelligence reports, Iran is supplying weapons to the Taliban to fight the US (as they did with the militia's in Iraq). Iran is not necessarily supplying the weapons to the Taliban in Pakistan.

However, there is no guarantee that allegedly Iranian supplied weapons would remain confined to the people they were meant for.

The drug trade and other criminal activities likely account for a large part of Taliban resources.

EDIT: S-2 did clarify above that the sorts of sophisticated IED's seen in Iraq have not been seen yet in Afghanistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

However, he suggested that his staff have seen none of the sophisticated explosive devices that were commonplace to IRAQ.

Maybe small arms, maybe not. I'm not convinced that this is a major issue yet and my understanding is that the mullahs and the taliban had a horrendous relationship. Still...

I take it you are suggesting the 'sophisticated IED's' in Iraq were courtesy Iran?

The Taliban and Mullah's have a horrible relationship existential enemies I would say when all the dust settles. So if the US reports of Iranian supplied weapons were not propaganda under the Bush Admin. for leverage, then it might mean that while the Iranian Mullah's are willing to supply the Taliban Mullah's with small arms, they are not willing to give them any possible advantage that might be used against the Iranians later.