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Maroof Raza - Think Literature 2013

Abingdonboy

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Thanks for sharing @Abingdonboy!

I do not know why was there such a tear shed over demolition of a mosque (a defunct one in fact). The mosque is a place of worship. You move on, the mosque moves on. Period.

Maroof is an epitome of how an Indian is supposed to put his nation before his religion.

Our political leadership being inept in understanding the complexity and necessity of planning foreign policies is unfortunately true. Hopefully, it'll change with the arrival of Modi.

PS. I'm in before the storm kicks in! ;p
 
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@Dillinger @sandy_3126 @Capt.Popeye @sancho @nair @Span @Koovie @arp2041 @Roybot @kbd-raaf @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Sidak @levina @IND151 @Oscar @nuclearpak @Aeronaut @KRAIT @karan21 @JanjaWeed @kurup @Water Car Engineer @Jade @jiki @Unknowncommando @Bombaywalla @chak de INDIA @thesolar65 @KS @OrionHunter

Perhaps nothing ground breaking but certainly a nice talk and makes some points that are worth some serious thought especially now with a change of leadership in India. the last 5 mins or so.

Awesome video.Luvd listening to Maroof Raza.
He got a 10/10 from me the moment he said that the only 2 feelings which keeps Pakistan cohesive is "anti-India" and "Kashmir",when all they want to do with Kashmir is to make sure that the water sources are their's.
Ppl who joined Pakistan were those who didnt want to join it....true but mention of Kerala almost shocked me.
@nair did you know that Kerala wanted to join Pakistan?? Are we really SW PAKISTANIS??? :blink:
 
Awesome video.Luvd listening to Maroof Raza.
He got a 10/10 from me the moment he said that the only 2 feelings which keeps Pakistan cohesive is "anti-India" and "Kashmir",when all they want to do with Kashmir is to make sure that the water sources are their's.
Ppl who joined Pakistan were those who didnt want to join it....true but mention of Kerala almost shocked me.
@nair did you know that Kerala wanted to join Pakistan?? Are we really SW PAKISTANIS??? :blink:

Well right now i am in office..... tell me the time kerala is mentioned..... may be can see that... Kerala joining Pakistan????? Hmm....
 
Maybe an original thought once in a while would be nice instead of the same old sh*t about what does or doesn't keeps Pakistan together & why we want Kashmir !

You don't hear us endlessly asking why India was created & whether it has served the purpose for which it was created or if there really was a purpose behind it or not ?


boring-bart-simpsons-Favim.com-439090.gif
 
Awesome video.Luvd listening to Maroof Raza.
He got a 10/10 from me the moment he said that the only 2 feelings which keeps Pakistan cohesive is "anti-India" and "Kashmir",when all they want to do with Kashmir is to make sure that the water sources are their's.
Ppl who joined Pakistan were those who didnt want to join it....true but mention of Kerala almost shocked me.
@nair did you know that Kerala wanted to join Pakistan?? Are we really SW PAKISTANIS??? :blink:

And I think his points about Pakistan's confused national identity with the only unifying factor being the animosity to India is right on the money. This is something the political class in India need to get their heads around- they still think peace with Pakistan is possible through trade, PM visits and granting of MFN, how long is it going to take for them to see the realties?




A longer talk where Mr Raza goes into more depth on the matter:




@Dillinger @sandy_3126 @Capt.Popeye @sancho @nair @Span @Koovie @arp2041 @Roybot @kbd-raaf@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Sidak @levina @IND151 @Oscar @nuclearpak @Aeronaut @KRAIT @karan21@JanjaWeed @kurup @Water Car Engineer @Jade @jiki @Unknowncommando @Bombaywalla @chak de INDIA @thesolar65 @KS @OrionHunter

Again worth a watch.

You don't hear us endlessly asking why India was created & whether it has served the purpose for which it was created or if there really was a purpose behind it or not ?
That's irrelevant because Pakistan was created OUT OF INDIA, India was getting independence and it was a certain movement that demanded a separate entity for a certain group. India isn't the one that needed to justify its existence but Pakistan.

Well right now i am in office..... tell me the time kerala is mentioned..... may be can see that... Kerala joining Pakistan????? Hmm....
+ @levina I think Mr Raza means there was an initial request by the Maharaja of Kerala to explore joining Pakistan because maybe he thought it would suite his interests better because India had already made it clear that all principalities would be absorbed into the Indian state and no Maharaja would remain in power. Maybe there Kerelan Maharaja thought Pakistan would offer them a better deal?

@nair @levina at 20.00 Mr Raza addresses the Kerala issue (in the longer second vid)
 
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And I think his points about Pakistan's confused national identity with the only unifying factor being the animosity to India is right on the money. This is something the political class in India need to get their heads around- they still think peace with Pakistan is possible through trade, PM visits and granting of MFN, how long is it going to take for them to see the realties?

That's irrelevant because Pakistan was created OUT OF INDIA, India was getting independence and it was a certain movement that demanded a separate entity for a certain group. India isn't the one that needed to justify its existence but Pakistan.

You may think that till your heart's content - Pakistan has neither a confused identity nor one that rests on animosity with India but jingoism of the highest order prevents both you and him from seeing that !

Pakistan was created Out of British India - a subcontinent of Nations that was made into a country through British Colonialism...we don't need to justify anything - It was Our Land & Our Choice that saw the creation of Pakistan !

Just as it was India's land & their choice that saw the creation of their Country !

I'll say this before, I'll say it again:

I just hope that such threads are banned because they get infested by foOktards and I sincerely hope that this immature and idiotic talk of vindication or indictment must stop !

Pakistan doesn't need any justification to exist nor does our Father need any vindication for something that was decided more than half a century ago and supported by the bulk of his constituency - It was Our Decision and its Irrevocable !

Just like India doesn't need to give any justification to the British as to why did they go for Independence or not we don't need to give any justification for why we went for ours.

Countries and People decide for a myriad reasons and at a particular point in time; we're happy being Pakistanis and Pakistanis themselves should stop looking for vindication for that because there isn't any need - It was Our Land and it was Our Future and we decided accordingly & Indians in turn should stop coming up with ludicrous 'what if' moments in turn !

Its not as if the Brits are asking Indians, Pakistanis & Bangladeshi why did you go for Independence ?

Was it Economic Emancipation ? 53% of Indians, 49% of Pakistanis and 58% of Bangladeshis are living in multidimensional poverty so good luck selling that as justification !

Was it for Social Emancipation ? Our regions are riddled with everything from issues pertaining to minority rights, rapes, female feotus infanticide, rampant corruption, nepotism, acid attacks etc. etc, etc, - So again good luck selling that !

Was it for some sort of a Cultural or Linguistic Emancipation ? For godsake English is our Official Languages and our children know more about Macbeth and Monets than they know about our own literary and artistic works because in many ways the Brits were successful in making us 'British Indians' - the Civilized Savage from a Colonial Point of View !

And we imitate the West in almost everything we do from the Suit-Piece being the symbol of Professionalism with even our social paradigms extracted from there !

Maybe we should stop with this BS ?

Was it then for Political Emancipation ? Hunnnh ? What does that mean ? We don't Vote because its the fun thing to do...we vote because we want something's done...usually those somethings are 'Economic and Social Progress' or 'Emancipation' in a Colonial Backdrop, which isn't there !

Besides votes based on Tribes, Castes, Biradaris, Religion and what not is rampant in our countries and that speaks volumes about our Political Emancipation - Maybe we just traded in the Gora Sahib for the Bhura (Brown) Sahib !

At any rate I dunno what kind of political emancipation we were looking for when millions...tens of millions of us flocked to become Citizens of Her Majesty the Queen all over again since '48 !

And if we're gonna have 'what if' moments...what if we had stayed a part of British India ? The Gora Sahib grew out of his failures much....much....much quicker than we did and moved towards a more progressive and rational being before we even knew what those terms meant - Hes still way ahead of us on that front !

Likewise there are a plethora of 'what if' scenarios in case India and Pakistan were not Partitioned and not all of them are as 'Happy Ever After' as our usual brain-wave of choice makes it out to be !

So enough with the BS....enough with these endless brain-waves of 'Why was Pakistan Created' and 'Vindication' and 'Justifications' 'cause they reek of intellectual hypocrisy and little more !
 
+ @levina I think Mr Raza means there was an initial request by the Maharaja of Kerala to explore joining Pakistan because maybe he thought it would suite his interests better because India had already made it clear that all principalities would be absorbed into the Indian state and no Maharaja would remain in power. Maybe there Kerelan Maharaja thought Pakistan would offer them a better deal?

@nair @levina at 20.00 Mr Raza addresses the Kerala issue (in the longer second vid)

But i never heard of such thing before... shall listen to it in the evening and comment...
 
Well right now i am in office..... tell me the time kerala is mentioned..... may be can see that... Kerala joining Pakistan????? Hmm....
Hmm its a good video overall, watch it when you get home.
Like @Abingdonboy said Maroof Raza mentioned kerala just once when he was talking about Indian principalities joining Pakistan.Though I have never ever heard of such a thing,as Kerala doesnt have muslim majority, ruler wasnt a muslim and last but not the least we didnt share any common boundary with Pakistan(Arabian ocean would be the only thing in common :P )
I just wanted to confirm if ever Keralites had harbored such a notion.
 
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Excellent talk by Maroof. Thanks for posting! :tup:

Maroof is an ex fauji, who was commissioned into the Grenadiers Regiment from the Indian Military Academy (IMA), Dehradun in 1980 and resigned as a major in 1993. A few years later he was assigned to Middlesex University as Regional Director for South Asia.

He is also a Visiting Fellow, King’s College, London, (in War Studies).
 
Maybe an original thought once in a while would be nice instead of the same old sh*t about what does or doesn't keeps Pakistan together & why we want Kashmir !

You don't hear us endlessly asking why India was created & whether it has served the purpose for which it was created or if there really was a purpose behind it or not ?


boring-bart-simpsons-Favim.com-439090.gif

consoler smiley.gif


You were not expecting such bitter truth to come from an Indian MUSLIM isnt it?? :P

Division of India was a humongous blunder.IMO
 
He got a 10/10 from me the moment he said that the only 2 feelings which keeps Pakistan cohesive is "anti-India" and "Kashmir",when all they want to do with Kashmir is to make sure that the water sources are their's.

And that is the reason why Pakistan does not want to solve the Kashmir issue. If it is, then the relevance of the Pakistan Army will dwindle and there would be nothing to hold Pakistanis together.

So expect this problem to continue till the stars start winking out, signalling the death of the universe!
 
Excellent talk by Maroof. Thanks for posting! :tup:

Maroof is an ex fauji, who was commissioned into the Grenadiers Regiment from the Indian Military Academy (IMA), Dehradun in 1980 and resigned as a major in 1993. A few years later he was assigned to Middlesex University as Regional Director for South Asia.

He is also a Visiting Fellow, King’s College, London, (in War Studies).
Thanks for sharing this info.
 
consoler smiley.gif


You were not expecting such bitter truth to come from an Indian MUSLIM isnt it?? :P

Division of India was a humongous blunder.IMO

This isn't the first demonstration of verbal diarrhea that I've witnessed an Indian engaging in nor would it be the last; the truth, however, it is not...merely an Opinion ! :)

The end of British India giving way to Pakistan & India, in my opinion, was a humongous blunder IMO ! :whistle:
 
And that is the reason why Pakistan does not want to solve the Kashmir issue. If it is, then the relevance of the Pakistan Army will dwindle and there would be nothing to hold Pakistanis together.

So expect this problem to continue till the stars start winking out, signalling the death of the universe!
:lol::lol::lol:

You 're one member who doesnt need smileys to add humor to his posts.

This isn't the first demonstration of verbal diarrhea that I've witnessed an Indian engaging in nor would it be the last; the truth, however, it is not...merely an Opinion ! :)

The end of British India giving way to Pakistan & India, in my opinion, was a humongous blunder IMO ! :whistle:

Your 2nd post on this thread is proof enough of your frustration. :P
I know its very hard for you to assimilate truth specially since you've been constantly fed with hatred towards India and you know so well that the Maroof Razak had completely nailed it. :lol:

Chill Amiii!!
We dont want any part of Pakistan to join India (not even Baluchistan) nor will Modi gobble up Pakistan.:p:
 
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