Magnificent picture of IAF's Su 30s taxing back at Eielson Air Force Base in Alaska during Ex Red Fl
- Thread starter samlove
- Start date
Abingdonboy
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 29,597
- Reaction score
- 46
- Country
- Location
There were elements of truth to it but the speaker (he conceded that the MKIs were superior to the F-15 and F-16) was not actually part of the EX and the audience was a bunch of Vetrans and the speaker was trying his best to pitch for more F-22s.
Much of the comments made have been debunked since then.
Anyway, that was 8 years ago, It's a little sad we are still taking about it.
Yup but it's going to happen as the IAF uses its own Indian data-links, not Link 16 or any NATO compatible data-link.
Please provide me with a source to back up the fact the IAF fighter pilots were "overconfident".
Not really.
Well the IAF largely developed their training practices in isolation that is true but their training is pretty much in line with any Western AF in the sense of being "high tempo" and "train as you fight" as opposed to "Eastern" practices (China/Russia).
To quote USAF team leader (Cope India 04) Colonel Greg Newbech: “What we’ve seen in the last two weeks is the IAF can stand toe-to-toe with the best air force in the world. I pity the pilot who has to face the IAF and chances the day to underestimate him; because he won’t be going home.
Yup.. it doesnt. here is another generalization.. pithy egos. Now stay out of this thread if you have nothing better to add.
Sven
FULL MEMBER
New Recruit
- Joined
- May 10, 2016
- Messages
- 33
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
This is called being diplomatic. People do that when cameras are pointed at them, especially in the military which often acts as an element of a nation's foreign policy.
No one expects Colonel Newbech to sh*t on IAF pilots publically, so please don't mistake what is said in front of cameras for the more frank and blunt assessments done behind closed doors.
The IAF has great pilots and good training, but please remember what is said on camera may not be what is actually true, though it isn't immediately false either.
It looks good in airshows and adds much to missiles, but air-craft? It's a gimmick largely. Good for WVR combat, where turn and burn is vital but for BVR dancing like that'll get your *ss smoked.
I concur, thrust vectoring largely doesn't add to an aircraft's capabilities.
Of course I'm the kind of person that thinks the world's best Air Force is the US Navy, so don't take my thoughts on Aeronautics too seriously
. That's outside of my element.
Last edited:
Thrust vectoring is also useful in BVR, though only in a single bogey scenario.
In a multi bogey BVR battle its better to conserve your energy and let your superior BVR missiles to the job.
If you have inferior missiles try to fight conservatively over your own land.
In a multi bogey BVR battle its better to conserve your energy and let your superior BVR missiles to the job.
If you have inferior missiles try to fight conservatively over your own land.
He himself is the source. Read his earlier Post, seems to have done a PHD on Indians from his nearby madrassa
samlove
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- May 4, 2013
- Messages
- 1,328
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
A U.S. Air Force boom operator with the 909th Air Refueling squadron from Kadena Air Base, Japan, refuels an aircraft while an Indian Air Force member watches during an incentive flight May 10, 2016, over the skies of Alaska. Ten IAF counterparts were able to view U.S. Air Force F-16 Fighting Falcon aircraft being refueled.
Samudra Manthan
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2015
- Messages
- 1,309
- Reaction score
- -20
- Country
- Location
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=145357
Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
14-May-2016 16:50 IST
Exercise Red Flag:
The IAF Team Sets Course Back at the end of a ‘Perfect Flag’
Red Flag Alaska 16-1, which was anadvanced aerial combat training exercise hosted at Eielson Air Force Base, Alaska (a successor to the previous COPE THUNDER exercise series) held in the Alaska region, concluded on 14 May 16. The main phase of the exercise had commenced on 28 Apr 16 with a mix of combat and support elements participating from IAF, USAF and USN. Over the last decade, IAF has been actively participating in various operational exercises hosted by various countries wherein its capabilities has been pitted against the best air forces in the world. While referring to the overall exercise plan and objective Red Flag Alaska 16-1 the Team Leader Gp Capt H Assudani said, “(the) Objective of this inter-continental deployment was not only to showcase IAF capability in undertaking Integrated Air Ops but also to imbibe operational lessons from the exercise engagements which will help us add more teeth to our overall war waging capabilities”.
The exercise is played under multiple simulated scenario designed to provide realistic settings. The overall demarcation is between Red Force (simulated as the Defensive force component fighting to protect own airspace and assets) and the Blue Force (simulated as the Offensive composite package). The Red Forces was mainly constituted by the 18 Sqn Aggressor Sqn flying the F-16s. The IAF along with the other USAF (F-15, F-16, F-22) and USN (F-18) constituted the Blue force. During the exercise IAF also flew as a part of the Red Force alongside the Aggressors which was a first of its kind.
The Exercise saw the IAF’s potent SU-30 MKI aircraft participating in Offensive Counter Air Ops in which they provided Escort cover to the strike elements. Apart from this, the IAF Jaguars DARIN II undertook integrated strike missions dropping practice bombs over the world renowned JPARC Air to Ground Range). Both these fleets performed their roles exceptionally well. There were three missions commanded by Indian Airforce in this exercise. Mission commanders of both the Jaguars and Su 30s were involved in planning, execution and conduct of debrief. One of the missions was commanded by Sqn Ldr Sidhu, who while speaking on the mission said that “it was a great opportunity to lead all the coalition forces. It gives one an immense satisfaction when all the participants execute the briefed plan which becomes a success”.
While talking about the IAF in the red flag exercise Lt Col Brian Toth, Chief operations officer of 354 operations group said “ The IAFs participation has been extremely good from my perspective. For most nations it takes an exercise or two to step up to meet the requirements of a Mission commander. The IAF has been mission commander three times and also performed the package commander roles and they have done a tremendous job”.
During the exercise a set of Red Flag team formed the `white Force’ & using high tech instrumentation and mission debrief tools were used to evaluate the performance of the participants in an objective and logical manner. The White Force watched the entire exercise in real time on tactical displays in the operations room on ground. Kill removal (removal of the pilots and aircraft assumed shot by the enemy) made the exercise more realistic.
The temperatures were sub-zero during a large part of the exercise which posed a challenge to the maintenance team. The team kept all the aircraft fully serviceable and mission capable at all times. It is noteworthy that despite the challenging environment, the maintenance team ensured 100% serviceability of all platforms throughout the four weeks. Lt Col Clarence McRae, the RED FLAG-Alaska 16-1 Expeditionary Forces Maintenance Group commander said "RED FLAG-Alaska provided all of the participants a fantastic opportunity to train with members of the Indian Air Force. The exchange of lessons learned and best practices with our partners in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region have enabled us to strengthen our partnership and signifies our commitment to this area of operations. The professionalism of the IAF airmen made bolstering our countries' relationship easy and helped provide realistic combat training for all participants". The Senior Engineering Officers of the IAF units were happy with the comprehensive IAF technical practices which are well defined and meticulous. Adherence to these have ensured a high tarmac availability that allowed aircrew to perform their missions. Wg Cdr Pratyush Anand, SEO of SU-30 Sqn said, “out of box thinking of the technicians has earned praise from all quarters. The participating airmen got an opportunity to see a variety of aircraft and this exposure and interaction with other fleets will go a long way in evolving our own practices”.
In the closing address Col William Culver 354th Fighter Wing Vice Cdr said ”this was one of the best Red flags I has seen. I compliment the exceptional standards displayed by the IAF and am amazed to see all the ten aircraft IAF had brought (4 Su30s, 4 Jaguars and 2 IL-78s) maintaining 100% serviceability for the entire four weeks and their aircraft flying on all days as per plan”.
Wg Cdr Saumitra Tamaskar Exercise Director said “Having set out with well-defined objectives, the IAF contingent’s effort over the past month has ensured that they take back important lessons which will help undertake operations across a wide and diverse spectrum and meet any future challenges”.
The Contingent will start their de-induction phase on 14 May 16 and are planned to return to India in the last week of May 16. The Su-30s will additionally participate in exercise ‘Desert Eagle II’ with UAE Air Force on their way back.
**************
Wing Commander Rochelle D’Silva from Alaska USA / MKR
Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
14-May-2016 16:50 IST
Exercise Red Flag:
The IAF Team Sets Course Back at the end of a ‘Perfect Flag’
Red Flag Alaska 16-1, which was anadvanced aerial combat training exercise hosted at Eielson Air Force Base, Alaska (a successor to the previous COPE THUNDER exercise series) held in the Alaska region, concluded on 14 May 16. The main phase of the exercise had commenced on 28 Apr 16 with a mix of combat and support elements participating from IAF, USAF and USN. Over the last decade, IAF has been actively participating in various operational exercises hosted by various countries wherein its capabilities has been pitted against the best air forces in the world. While referring to the overall exercise plan and objective Red Flag Alaska 16-1 the Team Leader Gp Capt H Assudani said, “(the) Objective of this inter-continental deployment was not only to showcase IAF capability in undertaking Integrated Air Ops but also to imbibe operational lessons from the exercise engagements which will help us add more teeth to our overall war waging capabilities”.
The exercise is played under multiple simulated scenario designed to provide realistic settings. The overall demarcation is between Red Force (simulated as the Defensive force component fighting to protect own airspace and assets) and the Blue Force (simulated as the Offensive composite package). The Red Forces was mainly constituted by the 18 Sqn Aggressor Sqn flying the F-16s. The IAF along with the other USAF (F-15, F-16, F-22) and USN (F-18) constituted the Blue force. During the exercise IAF also flew as a part of the Red Force alongside the Aggressors which was a first of its kind.
The Exercise saw the IAF’s potent SU-30 MKI aircraft participating in Offensive Counter Air Ops in which they provided Escort cover to the strike elements. Apart from this, the IAF Jaguars DARIN II undertook integrated strike missions dropping practice bombs over the world renowned JPARC Air to Ground Range). Both these fleets performed their roles exceptionally well. There were three missions commanded by Indian Airforce in this exercise. Mission commanders of both the Jaguars and Su 30s were involved in planning, execution and conduct of debrief. One of the missions was commanded by Sqn Ldr Sidhu, who while speaking on the mission said that “it was a great opportunity to lead all the coalition forces. It gives one an immense satisfaction when all the participants execute the briefed plan which becomes a success”.
While talking about the IAF in the red flag exercise Lt Col Brian Toth, Chief operations officer of 354 operations group said “ The IAFs participation has been extremely good from my perspective. For most nations it takes an exercise or two to step up to meet the requirements of a Mission commander. The IAF has been mission commander three times and also performed the package commander roles and they have done a tremendous job”.
During the exercise a set of Red Flag team formed the `white Force’ & using high tech instrumentation and mission debrief tools were used to evaluate the performance of the participants in an objective and logical manner. The White Force watched the entire exercise in real time on tactical displays in the operations room on ground. Kill removal (removal of the pilots and aircraft assumed shot by the enemy) made the exercise more realistic.
The temperatures were sub-zero during a large part of the exercise which posed a challenge to the maintenance team. The team kept all the aircraft fully serviceable and mission capable at all times. It is noteworthy that despite the challenging environment, the maintenance team ensured 100% serviceability of all platforms throughout the four weeks. Lt Col Clarence McRae, the RED FLAG-Alaska 16-1 Expeditionary Forces Maintenance Group commander said "RED FLAG-Alaska provided all of the participants a fantastic opportunity to train with members of the Indian Air Force. The exchange of lessons learned and best practices with our partners in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region have enabled us to strengthen our partnership and signifies our commitment to this area of operations. The professionalism of the IAF airmen made bolstering our countries' relationship easy and helped provide realistic combat training for all participants". The Senior Engineering Officers of the IAF units were happy with the comprehensive IAF technical practices which are well defined and meticulous. Adherence to these have ensured a high tarmac availability that allowed aircrew to perform their missions. Wg Cdr Pratyush Anand, SEO of SU-30 Sqn said, “out of box thinking of the technicians has earned praise from all quarters. The participating airmen got an opportunity to see a variety of aircraft and this exposure and interaction with other fleets will go a long way in evolving our own practices”.
In the closing address Col William Culver 354th Fighter Wing Vice Cdr said ”this was one of the best Red flags I has seen. I compliment the exceptional standards displayed by the IAF and am amazed to see all the ten aircraft IAF had brought (4 Su30s, 4 Jaguars and 2 IL-78s) maintaining 100% serviceability for the entire four weeks and their aircraft flying on all days as per plan”.
Wg Cdr Saumitra Tamaskar Exercise Director said “Having set out with well-defined objectives, the IAF contingent’s effort over the past month has ensured that they take back important lessons which will help undertake operations across a wide and diverse spectrum and meet any future challenges”.
The Contingent will start their de-induction phase on 14 May 16 and are planned to return to India in the last week of May 16. The Su-30s will additionally participate in exercise ‘Desert Eagle II’ with UAE Air Force on their way back.
**************
Wing Commander Rochelle D’Silva from Alaska USA / MKR
Similar threads
