M.A Jinnah on weeky time magazine cover April 22 1946

[M. Sarmad]

After reading comments of many Pakistanis I feel they are telling us as if it was between Secular Muslim League vs Hindu Congress of Gandhi.

"Jinnah left the Home Rule League and the Congress after Gandhi took them over because he (Jinnah) strongly disapproved of the introduction of religion into politics by Gandhi, and because he disapproved equally strongly of unconstitutional means to secure swaraj." H.M. Seervai -- Legend and Reality, p.169

"Jinnah had told him that he (Gandhi) had ruined politics in India by dragging up a lot of unwholesome elements in Indian life and giving them political prominence, that it was a crime to mix up politics and religion the way he (Gandhi) had done." Transfer of Power Documents, Vol.VI, p. 617

"Jinnah, however, warned Gandhiji not to encourage the fanaticism of Muslim religious leaders and their followers. Indeed, he was not the only person who foresaw danger in the Khilafat Movement." K.M. Munshi, Pilgrimage to Freedom -- p. 22

 

[INDIC]

"Jinnah left the Home Rule League and the Congress after Gandhi took them over because he (Jinnah) strongly disapproved of the introduction of religion into politics by Gandhi, and because he disapproved equally strongly of unconstitutional means to secure swaraj." H.M. Seervai -- Legend and Reality, p.169

"Jinnah had told him that he (Gandhi) had ruined politics in India by dragging up a lot of unwholesome elements in Indian life and giving them political prominence, that it was a crime to mix up politics and religion the way he (Gandhi) had done." Transfer of Power Documents, Vol.VI, p. 617

"Jinnah, however, warned Gandhiji not to encourage the fanaticism of Muslim religious leaders and their followers. Indeed, he was not the only person who foresaw danger in the Khilafat Movement." K.M. Munshi, Pilgrimage to Freedom -- p. 22

And his later days politics in Muslim League were complete opposite of that, he was no more the ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity but brought two nation theory.

 

[M. Sarmad]

And his later days politics in Muslim League were complete opposite of that, he was no more the ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity but brought two nation theory.

Yes , because he realized that Gandhi`s involvement of religion (Hinduism) in politics will "ultimately" result in dominance of Hindus in India . Jinnah`s "religion based" politics was reactionary . Two nation theory wont be there if Gandhi ji had not mixed religion with politics ,.

 

[FaujHistorian]

NS says he really loves Pakistan , PPP say that they work for the betterment of the poor
The point is "What they do" , not "What they say" !!
ML said a lot of things , Congress also
But we are discussing what they actually "did" , not what they "claimed"
Actions speak louder than words
Congress was okay with partition but opposed the idea publically
ML wanted to get rid of Hindu majority districts of Punjab and Bengal for political reasons but could not accept it in public
Pakistan movement was not some organised movement ,
Politicians had their interests (surely contradicting with interests of masses) , they worked for it
14 million displaced , 1 million women raped , 1 million killed !!
Happy independence !!! which Actually was a good bye kick by our former masters ..

That's not discussion on history

Just emotions.

And his later days politics in Muslim League were complete opposite of that, he was no more the ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity but brought two nation theory.

You keep kicking someone in the nutz and then expect him to be your best friend forever?

Strange logic

 

[M. Sarmad]

That's not discussion on history
Just emotions.

Highlight the part you think is emotions , and I may give you references from history books !!

 

[FaujHistorian]

"Jinnah left the Home Rule League and the Congress after Gandhi took them over because he (Jinnah) strongly disapproved of the introduction of religion into politics by Gandhi, and because he disapproved equally strongly of unconstitutional means to secure swaraj." H.M. Seervai -- Legend and Reality, p.169

"Jinnah had told him that he (Gandhi) had ruined politics in India by dragging up a lot of unwholesome elements in Indian life and giving them political prominence, that it was a crime to mix up politics and religion the way he (Gandhi) had done." Transfer of Power Documents, Vol.VI, p. 617

"Jinnah, however, warned Gandhiji not to encourage the fanaticism of Muslim religious leaders and their followers. Indeed, he was not the only person who foresaw danger in the Khilafat Movement." K.M. Munshi, Pilgrimage to Freedom -- p. 22

Hindu nationalists on this forum will never accept the fact that Gandhi supporting Islamist Khilafah movement

Jinnah opposed Islamism

This is why every Mullah worth a salt was deadly against Jinnah.


Gandhi's $tupidities got him Islamist Mullahs and
in the same time
he lost a secular Jinnah.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Gandhi's $tupidities got him Islamist Mullahs and
in the same time
he lost a secular Jinnah

Very true

 

[queerbait]

Hindu nationalists on this forum will never accept the fact that Gandhi supporting Islamist Khilafah movement

Jinnah opposed Islamism

This is why every Mullah worth a salt was deadly against Jinnah.


Gandhi's $tupidities got him Islamist Mullahs and
in the same time
he lost a secular Jinnah.

Faujihistorian i agree with you when you say gandhi was the first major national leader who brought religion into independence struggle, but tell me one thing.What other choice did he have....muslims at that time(after 1857) were not involved in independence struggle, british divide and rule policy led to serious damage in trust deficit between muslims and hindus and independence movement was largely looked upon as an hindu movement.Gandhi's only option was to bring muslim communities into the fold of independence movement was to play the khilafat card.That served two purposes :

1) It brought gandhi as a leader of muslims (some) as in he was seen being symphathetic to muslim cause and their sentiments.He was suprisingly also seen as a leader for the movement demonstrated by when he decided to end it after chouri chaura incident, even muslims obliged his request and ended their protest.

2) It gave way to greater anti british sentiments among muslim communities and greater participation in subsequent national movements like non-cooperation, quit india movement.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Highlight the part you think is emotions , and I may give you references from history books !!

it is missing time-line.

Here is I suggest you do for your own understanding.

Use this


---------1900----------1910---------1920---------1930---------1940------1950
|.....................|.....................|....................|...................|....................|
|.....................|.....................|....................|...................|....................|
|.....................|.....................|....................|...................|....................|
|.....................|.....................|....................|...................|....................|
|.....................|.....................|....................|...................|....................|
|.....................|.....................|....................|...................|....................|


Whenever someone said something or did something, your first question should be to place the info in a specific column in this table.


Thank you

 

[queerbait]

Yes , because he realized that Gandhi`s involvement of religion (Hinduism) in politics will "ultimately" result in dominance of Hindus in India . Jinnah`s "religion based" politics was reactionary . Two nation theory wont be there if Gandhi ji had not mixed religion with politics ,.

You surprise me, pray may i ask when did gandhi involve hinduism in politics.He identified himself as a hindu nationalist but even his biggest critics will think twice before accusing him of being not secular.

 

[M. Sarmad]

it is missing time-line.

Here is I suggest you do for your own understanding.

Use this


---------1900----------1910---------1920---------1930---------1940------1950
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |


Whenever someone said something or did something, your first question should be to place the info in a specific column in this table.


Thank you

I always do

You surprise me, pray may i ask when did gandhi involve hinduism in politics.He identified himself as a hindu nationalist but even his biggest critics will think twice before accusing him of being not secular.

I suggest that you read my posts again and try to understand my point

 

[FaujHistorian]

You surprise me, pray may i ask when did gandhi involve hinduism in politics.He identified himself as a hindu nationalist but even his biggest critics will think twice before accusing him of being not secular.

A secular should not include and encourage Islamists in this politics.

Faujihistorian i agree with you when you say gandhi was the first major national leader who brought religion into independence struggle, but tell me one thing.What other choice did he have....muslims at that time(after 1857) were not involved in independence struggle, ...

What do you mean they were not involved in independence struggle?

you pick up any year in post 1857, you are bound to uncover Muslims and Hindus and Sikhs all working towards self rule.

 

[queerbait]

I suggest that you read my posts again and try to understand my point

I read your posts where the accusation is that gandhi involved muslim cause mainly khilafat movement in politics....but nowhere he introduced hinduism into politics.As for his raising up of his khilafat movement please read my above post. .

 

[INDIC]

Yes , because he realized that Gandhi`s involvement of religion (Hinduism) in politics will "ultimately" result in dominance of Hindus in India . Jinnah`s "religion based" politics was reactionary . Two nation theory wont be there if Gandhi ji had not mixed religion with politics ,.

You just wrote down the Pakistan's sarkari school version of history. Gandhi always remained pro-Muslim and he remained pro-Muslim even after partition. Now you blaming him for Hindu dominance. Jinnah left Congress because his political ambitions weren't going to succeed while remaining in Congress.

As I mentioned you guys are trying to prove as if it was between secular Muslim league and Hindu Congress of Gandhi. LOL

 

[queerbait]

A secular should not include and encourage Islamists in this politics.

What do you mean they were not involved in independence struggle?

you pick up any year in post 1857, you are bound to uncover Muslims and Hindus and Sikhs all working towards self rule.

But was their involvement as great as after khilafat movement, when muslims (majority) who never identified with congress started associating it with it more.It was a practical step, if you look at it academically ---gandhi encouraged mullahs.If you look it practically....gandhi brought muslims into the independence movement.