M-270 USA : Are we getting it or not ?

[jbond197]

Everyone here before taking some high moral ground, please do consider that Pakistan was never a willing partner of America in WOT. Its co-operation was forcefully extracted by threat of sending them to stone age by the Bush administration. But then even after joining hands Pakistan always played double game, harboring none other than Osama himself plus many other from Taliban and simultaneously it kept asking for more and more money from America.

@Topic - why should America sell M-270's to Pakistan when there are good chances of them being sent for reverse engineering to everyone knows where? I say America should rather give them to Afghan and Iraqi armies there by strengthening them against the threats they are gonna face in the region.

 

[Viper0011.]

Everyone here before taking some high moral ground, please do consider that Pakistan was never a willing partner of America in WOT. Its co-operation was forcefully extracted by threat of sending them to stone age by the Bush administration. But then even after joining hands Pakistan always played double game, harboring none other than Osama himself plus many other from Taliban and simultaneously it kept asking for more and more money from America.

@Topic - why should America sell M-270's to Pakistan when there are good chances of them being sent for reverse engineering to everyone knows where? I say America should rather give them to Afghan and Iraqi armies there by strengthening them against the threats they are gonna face in the region.

Your post is filled with wrongful facts but 1: Yes, Pakistan wasn't really an ally the way the Americans perceived it. But that doesn't discount the work they did for us. They lost 40000 soldiers for the US. Frankly speaking, when you lose 10% of that for the Americans, please come back with an argument. I'd be very open to a discussion. The relationship is always rocky between two nations when their strategic interest misalign. But the partners and allies work things out, so it happens.

Next, the Pakistani economy suffered a LOT more than the payment they received from the US. We paid them for good and services....what about the reputational impact and material damages, and the fact that all the anger Taliban had, was taken out on Pakistan because we were too far away and weren't reachable? Give credit to where its deserved. Out of your hate for Pakistan because you are an Indian, you should try to still write some truth.

The US military knows how to track its provided weapons locations, moving, and all that. It's public information and its been debated about many times on this very forum starting from the F-16 Block 52. So you do not need to worry about that.
When the US provides something, it also provides strict guidelines and future penalties in case any reengineering or modifications happen to its products. You know that. Take a look at your C-130 J and P8I contract's terms too....

better target would be terrorists in North Warziristan
why you all so hostile towards India???
if you two war it's only going to hurt both or Pakistan worse.

Both of these guys are just as hostile to each other. Makes no sense anymore. You read posts from both sides and you wonder if it is 2014 or 1940's and if the common sense exists or not

 

[Echo_419]

Your post is filled with wrongful facts but 1: Yes, Pakistan wasn't really an ally the way the Americans perceived it. But that doesn't discount the work they did for us. They lost 40000 soldiers for the US. Frankly speaking, when you lose 10% of that for the Americans, please come back with an argument. I'd be very open to a discussion. The relationship is always rocky between two nations when their strategic interest misalign. But the partners and allies work things out, so it happens.

Next, the Pakistani economy suffered a LOT more than the payment they received from the US. We paid them for good and services....what about the reputational impact and material damages, and the fact that all the anger Taliban had, was taken out on Pakistan because we were too far away and weren't reachable? Give credit to where its deserved. Out of your hate for Pakistan because you are an Indian, you should try to still write some truth.

The US military knows how to track its provided weapons locations, moving, and all that. It's public information and its been debated about many times on this very forum starting from the F-16 Block 52. So you do not need to worry about that.
When the US provides something, it also provides strict guidelines and future penalties in case any reengineering or modifications happen to its products. You know that. Take a look at your C-130 J and P8I contract's terms too....



Both of these guys are just as hostile to each other. Makes no sense anymore. You read posts from both sides and you wonder if it is 2014 or 1940's and if the common sense exists or not

That's why many Indians don't trust the americans,you simply have to many strings attached & can you give me a link for the Restrictions that the US has applied to defense products it has sold

 

[Viper0011.]

That's why many Indians don't trust the americans,you simply have to many strings attached & can you give me a link for the Restrictions that the US has applied to defense products it has sold

Everything we sell is according to the US law. As long as the law doesn't get violated, its all good. I don't think India has anything to worry about due to the nature of the relationship between the US and India, as they are strong allies.

 

[jbond197]

Your post is filled with wrongful facts but 1: Yes, Pakistan wasn't really an ally the way the Americans perceived it. But that doesn't discount the work they did for us. They lost 40000 soldiers for the US. Frankly speaking, when you lose 10% of that for the Americans, please come back with an argument. I'd be very open to a discussion. The relationship is always rocky between two nations when their strategic interest misalign. But the partners and allies work things out, so it happens.

Next, the Pakistani economy suffered a LOT more than the payment they received from the US. We paid them for good and services....what about the reputational impact and material damages, and the fact that all the anger Taliban had, was taken out on Pakistan because we were too far away and weren't reachable? Give credit to where its deserved. Out of your hate for Pakistan because you are an Indian, you should try to still write some truth.

The US military knows how to track its provided weapons locations, moving, and all that. It's public information and its been debated about many times on this very forum starting from the F-16 Block 52. So you do not need to worry about that.
When the US provides something, it also provides strict guidelines and future penalties in case any reengineering or modifications happen to its products. You know that. Take a look at your C-130 J and P8I contract's terms too..

Nothing I said was incorrect. Pakistan was forced to act against the terrorists due to the much published threat by Bush Administration. Just google it and you will find it.

40,000 soldiers died. Can you point me to any source to corroborate your claim? Its disgusting that you had to fake the numbers of your dead soldiers to prove some point in an online forum. The last count I heard was about 15000 soldiers and you raised it to 40,000 to prove god knows what point.

Coming to economy - Obviously you were supposed to suffer for something you started. Pakistan was fully involved with whatever was happening in Afghanistan and even in 9/11 Pakistanis were involved so you obviously would not have gone scot-free. You paid the price because of your full involvement in the rise of extremism in the region. I just stated the facts which you being of Pakistani origin probably didn't liked.

Well, military espionage is a big thing, so I think we need to be much cautious in supplying something of any importance,even if there is minutest of doubts.

Everything we sell is according to the US law. As long as the law doesn't get violated, its all good. I don't think India has anything to worry about due to the nature of the relationship between the US and India, as they are strong allies.

If you are representing American point of view here, why are you so worried about Pakistan specially when Pakistanis only abuse America for all their fallacies. Come clean whether you are representing American position or Pakistani?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

we lost 5600-6000 soldiers,thousands of policemen/LEA ...

 

[Zarvan]

@C130 - The real price we have paid for this war is incalculable. The biggest price was our sovereignty and the mercenary state we have come to become, killing our own kin to please a superpower we share nothing with.

The most idiotic decision was to send troops in but now we have to start developing those Areas and bring out Troops and only deploy as soon as Possible and equip FC with Good weapons and Vehicles like MRAP and others

 

[Kompromat]

@Topic - why should America sell M-270's to Pakistan when there are good chances of them being sent for reverse engineering to everyone knows where? I say America should rather give them to Afghan and Iraqi armies there by strengthening them against the threats they are gonna face in the region.

They already have something similar under development. M-270 is by no means a space age technology.

 

[Viper0011.]

Nothing I said was incorrect. Pakistan was forced to act against the terrorists due to the much published threat by Bush Administration. Just google it and you will find it.

40,000 soldiers died. Can you point me to any source to corroborate your claim? Its disgusting that you had to fake the numbers of your dead soldiers to prove some point in an online forum. The last count I heard was about 15000 soldiers and you raised it to 40,000 to prove god knows what point.

Coming to economy - Obviously you were supposed to suffer for something you started. Pakistan was fully involved with whatever was happening in Afghanistan.
If you are representing American point of view here, why are you so worried about Pakistan specially when Pakistanis only abuse America for all their fallacies. Come clean whether you are representing American position or Pakistani?

If google can tell you how foreign policies worked at a certain time, then I don't think I need to even respond to your post. You guys are known to get diarrhea so if anything doesn't sound in your interest, you guys get diarrhea for days over Pakistan. If you read my other posts, you'll know that I don't have sides or take sides. There is the only one side and that's visible in my flags.
I wrote the truth and when I see people like you lying off your teeth, i'll correct you. Pakistan was involved with just as much terrorism as you guys were in India (against minorities, which are killed like sheep and chicken sadly), Sri Lanka, Baluchistan, etc, etc.
But you guys are big enough with money and you pay people to shut up. RSS, Shive Sena are no different than their Islamic cousin Talibans.
Here's the link to 49000 people (both civilian and military dead). And I am writing on a Pakistani forum......so OF COURSE I have some interest here. Otherwise, I'd be on alert5 or other US military forums where I don't discuss anything about Pakistan or India or China. This here isn't any position being explained. The American position is also the same, that we know the insane amounts of lives lost during the WOT and for our partnership. I don't think your lying can change that. There was CentCOM statement on here yesterday. Read that to know the US stance on Pakistan.
Next time, try not to lie so much and I won't call you out. Its amazing how much fake propaganda 1 billion people connected to the internet can do. Here, read up on the following or google for more:

Pakistani victims: War on terror toll put at 49,000 – The Express Tribune

Another Rs701bn lost due to terrorism - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

 

[jbond197]

If google can tell you how foreign policies worked at a certain time, then I don't think I need to even respond to your post. You guys are known to get diarrhea so if anything doesn't sound in your interest, you guys get diarrhea for days over Pakistan. If you read my other posts, you'll know that I don't have sides or take sides. There is the only one side and that's visible in my flags.
I wrote the truth and when I see people like you lying off your teeth, i'll correct you. Pakistan was involved with just as much terrorism as you guys were in India (against minorities, which are killed like sheep and chicken sadly), Sri Lanka, Baluchistan, etc, etc.
But you guys are big enough with money and you pay people to shut up. RSS, Shive Sena are no different than their Islamic cousin Talibans.
Here's the link to 49000 people (both civilian and military dead). And I am writing on a Pakistani forum......so OF COURSE I have some interest here. Otherwise, I'd be on alert5 or other US military forums where I don't discuss anything about Pakistan or India or China. This here isn't any position being explained. The American position is also the same, that we know the insane amounts of lives lost during the WOT and for our partnership. I don't think your lying can change that. There was CentCOM statement on here yesterday. Read that to know the US stance on Pakistan.
Next time, try not to lie so much and I won't call you out. Its amazing how much fake propaganda 1 billion people connected to the internet can do. Here, read up on the following or google for more:

Pakistani victims: War on terror toll put at 49,000 – The Express Tribune

Another Rs701bn lost due to terrorism - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Cut the crap!! I have read your earlier posts on this forum and I know very well where inclination of your arguments lies most of the time. Don't even make an effort to hide the obvious!!

49000 is the total number including civilians/terrorists. I knew of this number already. I just wanted you to prove your 40,000 soldier claim and you failed. Never mind, I always knew you just shot a BS number up there without bothering to read the facts.

Rest of your post is filled with some how trying to defend your position, accusing one and all of lies (what was I lying about btw?) etc that too when you yourself was on the wrong side of the argument.

And read below article to figure out how much America distrust your effort in WOT

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703730804576321570902617838

 

[Viper0011.]

49000 is the total number including civilians/terrorists. I knew of this number already.

One, 40000 total or 50000 or 10000, the day India loses 100 soldiers for us, I'll see. You are just there to suck the blood from the American economy and our money. That's it.
Next, your personal insults don't mean anything to me. When people can't counter factually and have no sense to even come back with sense, they resort to violence and insults....just like your terrorists from Shiv Sena, RSS and the likes do, similar to Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Terrorists are terrorists and they should be called as such. Your country bitch*es about Pakistan and ignores terrorism that it does across the globe.

 

[jbond197]

One, 40000 total or 50000 or 10000, the day India loses 100 soldiers for us, I'll see. You are just there to suck the blood from the American economy and our money. That's it.
Next, your personal insults don't mean anything to me. When people can't counter factually and have no sense to even come back with sense, they resort to violence and insults....just like your terrorists from Shiv Sena, RSS and the likes do, similar to Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Terrorists are terrorists and they should be called as such. Your country bitch*es about Pakistan and ignores terrorism that it does across the globe.

Are you lunatic or what? You made a claim of 40000 dead soldiers and I asked you to prove and now you are going berserk. Stop posting unrelated/unsubstantiated things out of sheer frustration!!

Btw, the best part of your post is - Shiv Sena and RSS is spreading terrorism across the globe. That's a revelation, truly!!

Don't quote me any further as I have no intention to indulge in stupid pointless arguments with you!!

 

[VCheng]

No Military coup had a reasonable justification to take place.
All military coups in Pakistan were aided, abetted and funded by America.
America is the enemy of democracy in Pakistan because it knows that the people of Pakistan will not tolerate an alliance with the US because of the evil role the US has played in establishment and maintenance of tyranny in Pakistan.

So let's identify the main culprit here. It is surely NOT the United States. This is the main question to answer:

Why does the Pakistan Army put and serve others before its own country?

U surely cannot call all the army responsible for the wrong doing of a few men...can u?????

I have nothing but the highest regard for the rank and file soldier who perform their assigned duties with selfless dedication. However, their senior commanders have contributed to the present day mess in Pakistan and show no signs of stopping their historically illegal interference which remains disguised as patriotism.

 

[Kompromat]

So let's identify the main culprit here. It is surely NOT the United States. This is the main question to answer:

Why does the Pakistan Army put and serve others before its own country?

There is no main culprit. The purpose of my post was to highlight the American role in establishment and maintenance of tyranny in Pakistan to serve its geopolitical goals.

 

[VCheng]

There is no main culprit. The purpose of my post was to highlight the American role in establishment and maintenance of tyranny in Pakistan to serve its geopolitical goals.

Yes, but it is also important to understand that USA only follows its national interests. My question is more important:

Why does the Pakistan Army put US interest over and above those of Pakistan by becoming a partner in activities that are detrimental to Pakistan, like you clearly described above?