Lyari Operation by criminals not against criminals

[Porus]

Lasharis and other Baluch Tribes who migrated to Sindh are not Sindhi's, they are still Baluch. People from Makrani coastline are Makranis and not Baluch.

What is your point? Read again your own previous comments and then my reply carefully and if something is unclear then better ask me instead of indulging into random rambling.

The Makran Division or State don't exist anymore, but that corner of Balochistan is inhabited by various Baloch tribes and a small Sheedi community does also live there. The people of Makran don't cease to be Baloch just because other people call them Makrani - just as the people of Lahore are called Lahori, but it still doesn't mean that they are not Punjabi aynmore. Sheedis also live in Lyari but the political power is in the hands of Iranic Balochs who make up the majority in Lyari. Did you get it now?

I am not here to defend the rightful actions of MQM because anybody who is sane accepts MQM's reactions have always been in response to some action. Even if people do not admit it openly, they atleast know it in their hearts. Only real Pakistanis know the truth about genocides in Pakistan, only real Pakistanis have the courage to accept and face the truth. How would the afghan offsprings know about real Pakistan and genocides within it.

I don't kwow what the Afghans and their descendants know about real Pakistan, but being an offspring of Indian or Bangladeshi immigrants yourself you must feel closer to them as there is something that cut across all the immigrants living in a certain country, so ask them yourself. Having said that, your justification and endorsement of the killings of non-Urdu Speakers (and Urdu speakers as well), ethnic riots or the communal hatred your beloved party has been contriving, inciting and advocting since its emergence as an organised criminal gang is deplorable - but what else can be expected by the bigots and hat mongers of the highest order.

 

[Mav3rick]

What is your point? Read again your own previous comments and then my reply carefully and if something is unclear then better ask me instead of indulging into random rambling.

The Makran Division or State don't exist anymore, but that corner of Balochistan is inhabited by various Baloch tribes and a small Sheedi community does also live there. The people of Makran don't cease to be Baloch just because other people call them Makrani - just as the people of Lahore are called Lahori, but it still doesn't mean that they are not Punjabi aynmore. Sheedis also live in Lyari but the political power is in the hands of Iranic Balochs who make up the majority in Lyari. Did you get it now?

You can call them Iranian or Iraqi or whatever else you wanna call them but makranis are makranis, they are not Baluch. Instead of engaging me in this nonsense of an argument of which you apparently have no real idea, go and ask real Baluch what they think of Makranis in Liyari. Just because you probably live in Liyari does not mean that you know more then others or that others should automatically believe you.

People of Liyari are not Baloch, period! And I will not reply to your nonsense on this topic any more. The other readers of this thread can make up their own minds.

I don't kwow what the Afghans and their descendants know about real Pakistan, but being an offspring of Indian or Bangladeshi immigrants yourself you must feel closer to them as there is something that cut across all the immigrants living in a certain country, so ask them yourself. Having said that, your justification and endorsement of the killings of non-Urdu Speakers (and Urdu speakers as well), ethnic riots or the communal hatred your beloved party has been contriving, inciting and advocting since its emergence as an organised criminal gang is deplorable - but what else can be expected by the bigots and hat mongers of the highest order.

Fortunately, unlike you most probably, we have always lived in the Indian subcontinent and have known about our culture and our forefathers. How would an Afghan or Makrani know about the history of Pakistan and our culture from Hindustan before partition. As residents of this part of the world, we have more rights then any migrant from outside the Indian subcontinent.

Having clarified the above, let me reiterate my point yet again; Every reaction of MQM, even violent ones, has been in response to certain actions. As I said before, Afghanis would not know the history of Karachi during 60's, 70's and early 80's. But let me tell you, MQM was formed to protect Karachiites from nationalistic Sindhi's and opportunistic Afghans who started bringing in drugs and weapons as early as mid 80's. Read up on the actions of Ayub Khan's son during Ayub's reign when Karachiites voted for Fatima Jinnah, mother of the nation, instead of Ayub. Read up on the atrocities of Sindhi Nationalists who committed inhumane acts such as Pakka Qila etc., read up the violent attempt of takeover of the city by bloody Afghan imports. And then, if you have any unbiased cell in you, understand the absolute necessity of MQM.

Karachiites do not feel comfortable under PPP/PML or any other political party. We feel secure only under MQM and, barring a couple of unfortunate days when opposition parties took advantage of opportunities to malign MQM by spreading violence, the peace in the city during MQM's reign is proof enough for those who have a conscience.

 

[Porus]

You can call them Iranian or Iraqi or whatever else you wanna call them but makranis are makranis, they are not Baluch. Instead of engaging me in this nonsense of an argument of which you apparently have no real idea, go and ask real Baluch what they think of Makranis in Liyari. Just because you probably live in Liyari does not mean that you know more then others or that others should automatically believe you.

People of Liyari are not Baloch, period! And I will not reply to your nonsense on this topic any more. The other readers of this thread can make up their own minds.

tsk, tsk. You seem to be a typical follower of Altaf who downright reject to accept facts and reality. I think instead of wasting my time I better let you welter in your ignorance.

Fortunately, unlike you most probably, we have always lived in the Indian subcontinent and have known about our culture and our forefathers. How would an Afghan or Makrani know about the history of Pakistan and our culture from Hindustan before partition. As residents of this part of the world, we have more rights then any migrant from outside the Indian subcontinent.

Having clarified the above, let me reiterate my point yet again; Every reaction of MQM, even violent ones, has been in response to certain actions. As I said before, Afghanis would not know the history of Karachi during 60's, 70's and early 80's. But let me tell you, MQM was formed to protect Karachiites from nationalistic Sindhi's and opportunistic Afghans who started bringing in drugs and weapons as early as mid 80's. Read up on the actions of Ayub Khan's son during Ayub's reign when Karachiites voted for Fatima Jinnah, mother of the nation, instead of Ayub. Read up on the atrocities of Sindhi Nationalists who committed inhumane acts such as Pakka Qila etc., read up the violent attempt of takeover of the city by bloody Afghan imports. And then, if you have any unbiased cell in you, understand the absolute necessity of MQM.

Karachiites do not feel comfortable under PPP/PML or any other political party. We feel secure only under MQM and, barring a couple of unfortunate days when opposition parties took advantage of opportunities to malign MQM by spreading violence, the peace in the city during MQM's reign is proof enough for those who have a conscience.

What are you blabbering about dude? I can also come down to your level if my intention is to win some arguments. I am neither an Afghan nor a Makrani but I would still say that unlike you Biharis and Bengalis the Pashtuns (Afghans) and Makranis have been living on this land for centuries and unlike you uninvited guests they don't need to weave some mythical stories to justify their presence here. Half of Pakistan was a part of Afghanistan and Balochistan was a free state before they were annexed by the British to their colony aka British India, but you're a recent immigrant from Bharat so I don't expect you to know about the history of this region. Even today if they resolutely decide to reunify their areas with Afghanistan then their will be no Pakistan anymore. Therefore, I will say it again that stop your agenda of spreading hate and violence, I wonder what should bite you hate mongers in your azz so that you can wake up and smell what ever you drink.

There were no Afghans and no drugs when in the early 70s the ethnic riots between Sindhis and Muhajirs had broken out in Urban Sindh. There were no Afghans and no drugs when Muahjirs fought with Punjabis in Karachi. Afghans were just the silent viewers when the Muhjirs were killing Pashtun rickshaw drivers and dry fruit sellers when a girl was killed in a bus accident, they were still the silent viewers when the "karkuns" of Muhajir Qaumi Movement Senior and Muhajir Qaumi Movement Junior were drilling holes in each others ankles and throwing the "bori band lashain" of each other in the dark alleys of Karachi. Your own army and police launched an intesive operation to clear the Urban Sindh from the killers of MQM. I think you better give up now and don't make a fool of yourself anymore.

Peace is only then when you are the sole rulers of Karachi, as soon as the others come and demand their due right you murderers start your killing spree. Those who have an iota of sense know that MQM is the main reason why the urban Sindh is infested with ethnic hatred.

 

[Mav3rick]

What are you blabbering about dude? I can also come down to your level if my intention is to win some arguments. I am neither an Afghan nor a Makrani but I would still say that unlike you Biharis and Bengalis the Pashtuns (Afghans) and Makranis have been living on this land for centuries and unlike you uninvited guests they don't need to weave some mythical stories to justify their presence here. Half of Pakistan was a part of Afghanistan and Balochistan was a free state before they were annexed by the British to their colony aka British India, but you're a recent immigrant from Bharat so I don't expect you to know about the history of this region. Even today if they resolutely decide to reunify their areas with Afghanistan then their will be no Pakistan anymore. Therefore, I will say it again that stop your agenda of spreading hate and violence, I wonder what should bite you hate mongers in your azz so that you can wake up and smell what ever you drink.

There were no Afghans and no drugs when in the early 70s the ethnic riots between Sindhis and Muhajirs had broken out in Urban Sindh. There were no Afghans and no drugs when Muahjirs fought with Punjabis in Karachi. Afghans were just the silent viewers when the Muhjirs were killing Pashtun rickshaw drivers and dry fruit sellers when a girl was killed in a bus accident, they were still the silent viewers when the "karkuns" of Muhajir Qaumi Movement Senior and Muhajir Qaumi Movement Junior were drilling holes in each others ankles and throwing the "bori band lashain" of each other in the dark alleys of Karachi. Your own army and police launched an intesive operation to clear the Urban Sindh from the killers of MQM. I think you better give up now and don't make a fool of yourself anymore.

Peace is only then when you are the sole rulers of Karachi, as soon as the others come and demand their due right you murderers start your killing spree. Those who have an iota of sense know that MQM is the main reason why the urban Sindh is infested with ethnic hatred.

I was hoping you would read about 60's, 70's and 80's before you post again, but your intention was never to find out what gave birth to MQM but rather to create hatred and division here. It wouldn't matter how many reasons I give you for the creation of MQM because you do not care. I personally think that Pakistanis are caring people, it's migrants from Afghanistan who do not care what happens to Pakistan and I seriously wonder what you are.

We had ruled Bharat (pre partition) before the British and we have more right to Pakistan then anybody else, especially Afghans or Makranis. We fought for Pakistan more then any of you can imagine, we lost for Pakistan more then you all combined and we faced every brutality of the British for the birth of Pakistan! And dude, if we can fight the British for our rights.......you can only imagine what we'd do to you. Our educated, patriotic and self sacrificing attitude after migration was taken for a sign of weakness. We continued to sacrifice whatever we had for decades, we have invested our blood and sweat on Pakistan unlike a lot of others. We have given back a lot more then we have been given!

Peace is here only when we rule Karachi because we ensure that our city, our houses stay clean but the ***** that comes from outside has turned our beautiful city into a garbage dump with drugs, illegal weapons, prostitution, gambling, liquor etc., we are family oriented people, we don't need these things in our communities and we cannot welcome people who bring this to our cities! If you want to come to my city, you will have to learn to live a decent life otherwise you are not welcome!

 

[Porus]

I was hoping you would read about 60's, 70's and 80's before you post again, but your intention was never to find out what gave birth to MQM but rather to create hatred and division here. It wouldn't matter how many reasons I give you for the creation of MQM because you do not care. I personally think that Pakistanis are caring people, it's migrants from Afghanistan who do not care what happens to Pakistan and I seriously wonder what you are.

There is no doubt that Pakistanis are extra caring and loving people, in any other country the immigrants are thrown out of the country if they create trouble for the local people. It is only Pakistan where every tom, dick and harry or should I say every Bihari, Bangali and Kabuli come and trample the laws under his foot and treat the locals like dirt. You were blaming Afghans for all the problems the humanity is facing, but conveniently circumvent the issue when you are reminded that they were mere silent viewers when you guys were devouring the people of other ethnic groups and even each other.

We had ruled Bharat (pre partition) before the British and we have more right to Pakistan then anybody else, especially Afghans or Makranis. We fought for Pakistan more then any of you can imagine, we lost for Pakistan more then you all combined and we faced every brutality of the British for the birth of Pakistan! And dude, if we can fight the British for our rights.......you can only imagine what we'd do to you. Our educated, patriotic and self sacrificing attitude after migration was taken for a sign of weakness. We continued to sacrifice whatever we had for decades, we have invested our blood and sweat on Pakistan unlike a lot of others. We have given back a lot more then we have been given!

You guys really need to have your heads examined. There is something inherently wrong with you people that time and again you come up with the most absurd theories and claims. You have ruled over Bharat before the British therefore, you have more right over Pakistan then those who have been living on these lands since many millenniums? First of all who are you? The imaginary progeny of Babur or just a low-caste converted Hindu who has adopted Siddiqui, Syed or Khan as his surname immediately after crossing the border at Khokhrapar? What do you people call them in Karachi, Khokhrapari Syeds? When did you fight the British for Pakistan? In case if you missed your history classes when you were lining-up the chairs for the daily MQM jalsas, the first and foremost reason for the creation of AIML was to promote feelings of loyalty among the Muslims to the British government and they remained the loyal servants of all the kings and queens unless the masters packed up and left their empire. The Pashtuns waged many wars against the British colonialists to liberate their land, the Bengalis fought three wars against the British without any assistance from outside, the Balochs fought against them when your great leaders like Syed Ahmed Khan were asking the Muslism to prove their loyalty to their colonial Masters and the poor king was fighting for his pension.

Hundreds of thousands (ca. 200,000-Talbot, I don't know where that 20 lakh janoN ki qurbani took place the 2nd best mayor of the universe brags about) of people lost their lives during partition riots, and even though I am not a Punjabi, I should accept that the overwhelming majority of those were poor Punjabis of east Punjab. Very few Muslims from UP, Bihar and other parts of India crossed the border at Wahga to reach their dreamland. Most of them actually came through Khokhrapr(Sindh) and via ferry from Bombay to Karachi, which were safe passages. Even today one can come across many Punjabis who lost their family members during partition riots, whereas every mamoo, khala and phuppo of every Muhajir are still living peacefully in peaceful India. I know how educated you people really are but I don’t want to stretch the topic in every direction so I keep it confined to relevant points. The bureaucracy in initial years was full of Muhajirs and along with Punjabis they screwed the country royally, and their share in loot mar was equal. They only went berserk when the local people started to demand their rightful and equal share in jobs and Muhajirs had to share the quota of lucrative jobs with the local people. When the poor Sindhis decided to impose Sindh in their own province the Muhajirs immediately resorted to violence to save the honour of their Urdu and thereby triggered the ethnic riots between Sindhis and Muhajirs.

Peace is here only when we rule Karachi because we ensure that our city, our houses stay clean but the ***** that comes from outside has turned our beautiful city into a garbage dump with drugs, illegal weapons, prostitution, gambling, liquor etc., we are family oriented people, we don't need these things in our communities and we cannot welcome people who bring this to our cities! If you want to come to my city, you will have to .learn to live a decent life otherwise you are not welcome!

The hard working and peace loving Parsis, Bohris and Ismailis came alongwith the British colonialists and settled down in Karachi in the 19th and early 20th century and built this city out of scratch. Many decades would have to pass before the hordes of Muslims from central India will turn the then Paris of East into a huge hive of slums. Ask them what they say about you guys. I have few Parsi friends, very few have remained in Karachi now, and they have nothing but pure contempt for those hordes who literally attacked and completely destroyed their little beautiful and peaceful city in the mid of the last century. Do I need to clarify more? So dear, those who sit in the glass house, should not throw stones. You are not the owner of this city, this is a city of Pakistan where every Pakistani can come and settle down. You have to live with this fact otherwise go back and reclaim your one million square km haveli and all the land and servants you left in India due to your love for Pakistan.

 

[Mav3rick]

There is no doubt that Pakistanis are extra caring and loving people, in any other country the immigrants are thrown out of the country if they create trouble for the local people. It is only Pakistan where every tom, dick and harry or should I say every Bihari, Bangali and Kabuli come and trample the laws under his foot and treat the locals like dirt. You were blaming Afghans for all the problems the humanity is facing, but conveniently circumvent the issue when you are reminded that they were mere silent viewers when you guys were devouring the people of other ethnic groups and even each other.

Either you have never been abroad or you do not know what immigration means. Anybody who is granted immigration becomes a permanent resident of that country. A permanent resident is almost a citizen with some rights such as voting, passport & consular services not extended until he/she becomes a citizen which is usually only a matter of time after one becomes resident. But, you must have confused migration due to partition of a country to that of a general migration. Do not be fooled by the literal meaning of the word as both are vastly different acts. In this particular case, citizens of a country that breaks into parts are still citizens of that country and have the right to choose which part to live in. Nobody can take that away from them.

As for the trampling of laws, it is our general experience that illegal immigrants, note the emphasis on the word illegal, from Afghanistan and Makran etc. and their offspring that sprout like bunnies because of low moral values and non existent family culture break more laws then the rest of the Pakistanis combined. By the way I have noticed how somebody very conveniently sidestepped my wonder of his/her background. As citizens of the country, it is our right to ensure that all migrants obey the law, but ofcourse if someone is an 'illegal' migrant to start with.....not much can be expected from him/her and co., right?

And yes, we blame Afghans for most of our problems.

You guys really need to have your heads examined. There is something inherently wrong with you people that time and again you come up with the most absurd theories and claims. You have ruled over Bharat before the British therefore, you have more right over Pakistan then those who have been living on these lands since many millenniums? First of all who are you? The imaginary progeny of Babur or just a low-caste converted Hindu who has adopted Siddiqui, Syed or Khan as his surname immediately after crossing the border at Khokhrapar? What do you people call them in Karachi, Khokhrapari Syeds? When did you fight the British for Pakistan? In case if you missed your history classes when you were lining-up the chairs for the daily MQM jalsas, the first and foremost reason for the creation of AIML was to promote feelings of loyalty among the Muslims to the British government and they remained the loyal servants of all the kings and queens unless the masters packed up and left their empire. The Pashtuns waged many wars against the British colonialists to liberate their land, the Bengalis fought three wars against the British without any assistance from outside, the Balochs fought against them when your great leaders like Syed Ahmed Khan were asking the Muslism to prove their loyalty to their colonial Masters and the poor king was fighting for his pension.

Go and read my post, again. I had stated that we had ruled Bharat before English 'and' clearly gave reasons for our right to Pakistan post period. It is due to our struggle that Pakistan is a free country today, somewhat. Otherwise you would still be in some cave in Afghanistan or cleaning toilets under the British rule. Instead of believing your propaganda on names and castes, we know for a fact how Afghans sold their names, their heritage and whatever else they could get their hands on to mingle among the Pashtuns, to impersonate Pashtuns, to deceive us. In your post you tried to malign Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, you probably stopped just short of putting Quaid-e-Azam in the same league. This is actually proof of your nefarious motives against Pakistanis, against people who made the real difference for Pakistan.

Hundreds of thousands (ca. 200,000-Talbot, I don't know where that 20 lakh janoN ki qurbani took place the 2nd best mayor of the universe brags about) of people lost their lives during partition riots, and even though I am not a Punjabi, I should accept that the overwhelming majority of those were poor Punjabis of east Punjab. Very few Muslims from UP, Bihar and other parts of India crossed the border at Wahga to reach their dreamland. Most of them actually came through Khokhrapr(Sindh) and via ferry from Bombay to Karachi, which were safe passages. Even today one can come across many Punjabis who lost their family members during partition riots, whereas every mamoo, khala and phuppo of every Muhajir are still living peacefully in peaceful India. I know how educated you people really are but I don’t want to stretch the topic in every direction so I keep it confined to relevant points. The bureaucracy in initial years was full of Muhajirs and along with Punjabis they screwed the country royally, and their share in loot mar was equal. They only went berserk when the local people started to demand their rightful and equal share in jobs and Muhajirs had to share the quota of lucrative jobs with the local people. When the poor Sindhis decided to impose Sindh in their own province the Muhajirs immediately resorted to violence to save the honour of their Urdu and thereby triggered the ethnic riots between Sindhis and Muhajirs.

I do not know what you are quoting, 2 million lives lost may have been the count of people who lost their lives while trying to move to Pakistan. Out of context things are quoted only by those who have no proper grounds for arguments, these are the people who will jump left right and centre simply to take away focus from the prime note of argument....precisely what you have done here. I have no idea why this was brought up and I will not be dragged into arguments absent truth and honor.

 

[baqai]

They said all the weapons they have they have licenses issued to them by the PPP government to fight the MQM. Now that PPP and MQM are allied they have collectively decided to move against Lyari the people who supported PPP in a die hard manner.

Please tell me

1. Where to apply for a license for Anti Aircraft Gun, RPG, Grenades
2. Which shop in the vicinity of Karachi i might be able to get the above items from?

please enlighten me, I had to go through a lot of khuwari to get a licensed 9mm

 

[Mav3rick]

Please tell me

1. Where to apply for a license for Anti Aircraft Gun, RPG, Grenades
2. Which shop in the vicinity of Karachi i might be able to get the above items from?

please enlighten me, I had to go through a lot of khuwari to get a licensed 9mm

Lol......well said mate. AA Guns/RPG's and Grenades are not licensed. Then there are some prohibited bore weapons that require special permission from Prime Minister. By the way these Liyari gangsters were also using Armour Piercing Bullets that pierced bullet proof vests and APC's of the police force. AP Bullets can not be licensed under any circumstances.

 

[Porus]

You can save your and as well as my time if you stop trolling the thread with irrelevant information and just stick to the topic, if there is any topic left here. You have always failed to refute the points I raised in previous posts, the most you could do is to reject the “facts” without any substantial proof. Although the whole post is full of usual rhetoric and rant, and there is hardly anything substantial that deserves a reply – I still try to answer the least absurd comments.

Either you have never been abroad or you do not know what immigration means. Anybody who is granted immigration becomes a permanent resident of that country. A permanent resident is almost a citizen with some rights such as voting, passport & consular services not extended until he/she becomes a citizen which is usually only a matter of time after one becomes resident. But, you must have confused migration due to partition of a country to that of a general migration. Do not be fooled by the literal meaning of the word as both are vastly different acts. In this particular case, citizens of a country that breaks into parts are still citizens of that country and have the right to choose which part to live in. Nobody can take that away from them.

If a country is divided its citizens cannot decide on their own where they will live. There are some prerequisites they have to fulfill and they have to follow the laws of the respected countries. On the day of 15th August 1947 Pakistan and India emerged as a two sovereign states on the map of the world and the people automatically became the citizens of that country where they were residing at that moment. Both the countries were not legally bound to accept those refugees who were forced to leave their homes, they did it on moral ground. An agreement between India and Pakistan decided the fate of those who had taken refuge in Pak or India after the partition of British India, all of them were automatically neutralized and the 1951? Citizenship act of Pakistan deem them to be the citizens of Pakistan. A year later further amendment in that act put an end to the uncontrolled migration of Muslims from India and both the countries introduced visa and passport control in the same year.

As for the trampling of laws, it is our general experience that illegal immigrants, note the emphasis on the word illegal, from Afghanistan and Makran etc. and their offspring that sprout like bunnies because of low moral values and non existent family culture break more laws then the rest of the Pakistanis combined.

Why so much hate for Makranis? What have they done to you? You poor souls hate everybody as it is ingrained in your psyche. After fighting all other ethnic groups in Pakistan it seems that now the followers of Quaid e Fasad have found another enemy who will soon become the target of their trained snipers. Concern a psychologist before this hate devours you.

Makran is a legal part of Pakistan and the constitution guarantees its people the citizenship of Pakistan by birth. Try again

By the way I have noticed how somebody very conveniently sidestepped my wonder of his/her background

I am a bonafide Indus man. A humble, hard-working, loving and brave Indus man. I am a true inheritor of those great civilizations sprouted and flourished in the Indus river valley, I’m an acute admirer of the beautiful landscape of this land of my ancestors who spilled their blood to defend this land from aggressors, I am an ardent follower of the teachings of our great sufi poets who spread the message of peace and brotherhood. All these thing are alien to you, so don't worry if you don't understand me.

Go and read my post, again. I had stated that we had ruled Bharat before English 'and' clearly gave reasons for our right to Pakistan post period. It is due to our struggle that Pakistan is a free country today, somewhat. Otherwise you would still be in some cave in Afghanistan or cleaning toilets under the British rule.

What happened? Few posts ago you were proudly claiming that you have always lived in the Indian Sub-continent and now immediately you have become the progeny of the Muslim rulers. You can also claim to be the king of China, who can stop you from doing so? Listen buddy, I know truth is bitter and for you guys it is hard to digest the fact that most probably you have converted to Islam from Hindusim - for whatever reason as it is your personal matter. Believe me, you have never ruled any thing even in your dreams. Those were Mughals and Afghans who ruled over India whereas you have always been a native to India. You are the conquered, not the conqueror.

In your post you tried to malign Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, you probably stopped just short of putting Quaid-e-Azam in the same league. This is actually proof of your nefarious motives against Pakistanis, against people who made the real difference for Pakistan.

Was Syed Ahmed Khan a Pakistani? Instead of wasting your time watching the clips of latest kartabs of Altaf bhai you should read some books, and don’t believe everything you read in mutala e Pakistsan. Syed Ahmed was a proud servant of the King, he did everything to prove his loyalty to the British master, he even severely criticized the so-called 1857 war of independence and considered it an act of treason (read The Murder of History by K. Aziz). Jinnah was a great Indus man, although I don’t endorse everything he did but still I have a huge respect for him.

I do not know what you are quoting, 2 million lives lost may have been the count of people who lost their lives while trying to move to Pakistan. Out of context things are quoted only by those who have no proper grounds for arguments, these are the people who will jump left right and centre simply to take away focus from the prime note of argument....precisely what you have done here. I have no idea why this was brought up and I will not be dragged into arguments absent truth and honor.

I was quoting the 2nd best mayor of the universe who, in a political show, used the dirty language and bragged about the 20 lakh janoN ki qurbani his people offered for the creation of Pakistan. An estimated 200,000(Talbot) died during partition riots and the overwhelming majority of them were unfortunately Punjabis. Did you get my point now?