Lt. Gen (R) Tariq Khan speaks

[HAIDER]

 

[Path-Finder]

......................... What can be gained by watching this?

The junta has already driven Pakistan into the ground.

 

[blain2]

......................... What can be gained by watching this?

The junta has already driven Pakistan into the ground.

Because this is a slog for the long haul so you need to keep on pushing.

Nothing is completely done or written in stone yet.

Also, as we always say, if you want something really bad, you have to have the patience, the fight, the will to see it through.

Our problem is not getting to the state of "emancipation". It is what we do with it once we get it.

Post 1971, the opportunity with ZAB was lost. Post Zia, the opportunity with BB/NS was lost multiple times. Post Zardari, the opportunity was lost with IK/PTI. So our system cannot remain a repressive one like that of Egypt etc. It gives us opportunities to be free men and women with a voice of our own. But eventually when we do get the mandate of the people restored, what do our leaders do with that mandate? They fail us. This is not to say the military is any better. They fail us in governance too.

The conclusion is that our freedom of expression, will and to vote is something precious. When we get it, we have to hold all accountable and strive to make it work.

 

[AA_]

Because this is a slog for the long haul so you need to keep on pushing.

Nothing is completely done or written in stone yet.

Also, as we always say, if you want something really bad, you have to have the patience, the fight, the will to see it through.

Our problem is not getting to the state of "emancipation". It is what we do with it once we get it.

Post 1971, the opportunity with ZAB was lost. Post Zia, the opportunity with BB/NS was lost multiple times. Post Zardari, the opportunity was lost with IK/PTI. So our system cannot remain a repressive one like that of Egypt etc. But eventually when we do get the mandate of the people restored, what do our leaders do with that mandate? They fail us. This is not to say the military is any better. They fail us in governance too.

The conclusion is that our freedom of expression, will and to vote is something precious. When we get it, we have to hold all accountable.

Fight, we all have to fight. Giving up is exactly what these zalim torturers in surplus WW2 British uniform want people to do.

The best plan to take a page out of the Shia doctrine - continuous resistance until you bring many people onto your side.

Giving up will doom Pakistan for generations as the cabals running Pakistan will surely run it into the ground further and then hop on a flight to the UK (their sponsors).

 

[Path-Finder]

Because this is a slog for the long haul so you need to keep on pushing.

Nothing is completely done or written in stone yet.

Also, as we always say, if you want something really bad, you have to have the patience, the fight, the will to see it through.

Our problem is not getting to the state of "emancipation". It is what we do with it once we get it.

Post 1971, the opportunity with ZAB was lost. Post Zia, the opportunity with BB/NS was lost multiple times. Post Zardari, the opportunity was lost with IK/PTI. So our system cannot remain a repressive one like that of Egypt etc. It gives us opportunities to be free men and women with a voice of our own. But eventually when we do get the mandate of the people restored, what do our leaders do with that mandate? They fail us. This is not to say the military is any better. They fail us in governance too.

The conclusion is that our freedom of expression, will and to vote is something precious. When we get it, we have to hold all accountable and strive to make it work.

I spent most of my life arguing with my bengali mates from school to today about 1971. Now retrospectively the bengali were right about things like, the treatment of Sheikh Mujeeb!

We are witnessing history repeat itself. The years I spent defending the junta because I thought they were not in the wrong. Silly me.

I like to observe history as a student. There are only so many margins of error you can get away with! Then your time is up and you get put into history books.

For example Rome was a great Military power. it spent centuries crushing the Germanic tribes then the Christians. Eventually Rome got divided into two halves.

Then the very people it used to demolish and persecute, The Germans and the Christians became the masters of Rome.

The mistakes being made in Pakistan have a limit. The mistakes just keep on being repeated. One cannot go against the forces of nature for too long.

 

[Jango]

I haven't ever watched Haider Mehdi's videos before, watched this one because of Gen Tariq, not completely though, but there were some VERY pertinent and good points mentioned.

1- Empower CJCSC position. Only he should have access to the civilian leadership
2- Create multiple 4 star positions in the Army, have a separate Southern Command, Northern/Central Command, and then a COAS.
3- Separate ISI from the army. This has been the opinion of MANY career fighting arm officers since long. Infantry, AC, Artillery, EME, no one loves ISI. The army has the MI, you use them for military intelligence and field intelligence.

The ISI undertakes foreign operations, and operations covering foreign affairs and strategic geo-political operations. You need close liaison with the civilian government and civil agencies, why does the ISI then come under the army?

As he said, separate the authority from the power. One guy should have the troops, other guy should have the authority from office. Much harder to rule with an iron fist then.

Until and unless these reforms happen within the army itself, nothing will happen. This musical chairs will keep on continuing.

At 00:46, Gen Tariq mentions the part of CMI briefings and everything. Understand this point, and then view it in light of the DG-C Faisal Naseer clarification which came through Wajahat Khan. The good old DG-C said that IK's popularity is waning, bla bla bla, he is unpopular now. Now you should understand why he said that.

To part, the words of Gen Tariq ring very true, 'The purpose of military action is not to resolve the problem, it is to create an environment which helps to resolve the problem'.

 

[FuturePAF]

Because this is a slog for the long haul so you need to keep on pushing.

Nothing is completely done or written in stone yet.

Also, as we always say, if you want something really bad, you have to have the patience, the fight, the will to see it through.

Our problem is not getting to the state of "emancipation". It is what we do with it once we get it.

Post 1971, the opportunity with ZAB was lost. Post Zia, the opportunity with BB/NS was lost multiple times. Post Zardari, the opportunity was lost with IK/PTI. So our system cannot remain a repressive one like that of Egypt etc. It gives us opportunities to be free men and women with a voice of our own. But eventually when we do get the mandate of the people restored, what do our leaders do with that mandate? They fail us. This is not to say the military is any better. They fail us in governance too.

The conclusion is that our freedom of expression, will and to vote is something precious. When we get it, we have to hold all accountable and strive to make it work.

To quote Benjamin Franklin when asked what kind of government was decided upon after the Americans declared independence from the British. “A Republic, If you can keep it”

 

[Rank]

I haven't ever watched Haider Mehdi's videos before, watched this one because of Gen Tariq, not completely though, but there were some VERY pertinent and good points mentioned.

1- Empower CJCSC position. Only he should have access to the civilian leadership
2- Create multiple 4 star positions in the Army, have a separate Southern Command, Northern/Central Command, and then a COAS.
3- Separate ISI from the army. This has been the opinion of MANY career fighting arm officers since long. Infantry, AC, Artillery, EME, no one loves ISI. The army has the MI, you use them for military intelligence and field intelligence.

The ISI undertakes foreign operations, and operations covering foreign affairs and strategic geo-political operations. You need close liaison with the civilian government and civil agencies, why does the ISI then come under the army?

As he said, separate the authority from the power. One guy should have the troops, other guy should have the authority from office. Much harder to rule with an iron fist then.

Until and unless these reforms happen within the army itself, nothing will happen. This musical chairs will keep on continuing.

At 00:46, Gen Tariq mentions the part of CMI briefings and everything. Understand this point, and then view it in light of the DG-C Faisal Naseer clarification which came through Wajahat Khan. The good old DG-C said that IK's popularity is waning, bla bla bla, he is unpopular now. Now you should understand why he said that.

To part, the words of Gen Tariq ring very true, 'The purpose of military action is not to resolve the problem, it is to create an environment which helps to resolve the problem'.

Good … so from the past 75 years, have they or ever they’ve created the enviroment which helps to resolve the problem (kinetic/non-kinetic/any sort of)?

 

[Jango]

Good … so from the past 75 years, have they or ever they’ve created the enviroment which helps to resolve the problem (kinetic/non-kinetic/any sort of)?

I would disagree with this a bit.

The civilian govt has time and again abandoned it's own duties.

Sure, you can say that because they didn't have neough budget they didn't do it, but at other times it was just sheer lack of will and a tendency to throw the hot potato into the lap of the army.

Case in point, during Raheel Sharif and NS's time, the anti-terror policy, and to a certain extent foreign policy was completely outsourced to the army. The civilian govt did not want to have to do anything with this. They were like 'Raheel sahab aap yeh pakrain, aur aapn janain, hamain tang mat karna'. Same goes to a certain extent for PTI, they outsourced the anti-terror policy somewhat to the military, but took back a lot of the space that was conceded before.

This is exactly why some disagreements came up. The PTI and estab ALWAYS fought on foreign policy issues. Ask anyone if you know in the Foreign Office or even in MO Dte from that time, they will agree with you. Nawaz Sharif was the least interested in what happens on the foreign front, apart from India dosti zindabad. He had left it all to the military. Now recall why we did not have a foreign minister during that time, or why we had Kh Asif or Khurram Dastagir posing as one. Because the FO at the time was being run by the army.

PTI with SMQ tried to wrestle some control back, and actually did so, but it was not well received by the army. Actually not the army, as Gen Tariq says, the fighting troops don't really give a damn. It's a select few at the top and the intelligence apparatus. So it created trouble for them. Iran issue, Ukraine/Russia issue, India relations, all the things are now coming out into the open slowly.

So in a nutshell, civilians have been all too eager to offload their domain to the army too, and army has accepted it gladly as well.

What you are seeing now is what you should have expected when you have an intelligence man as COAS.

 

[jamesisi]

I spent most of my life arguing with my bengali mates from school to today about 1971. Now retrospectively the bengali were right about things like, the treatment of Sheikh Mujeeb!

We are witnessing history repeat itself. The years I spent defending the junta because I thought they were not in the wrong. Silly me.

I like to observe history as a student. There is only so many margins of error you can get away with! Then your time is up and you get put into history books.

For example Rome was a great Military power. it spent centuries crushing the Germanic tribes then the Christians. Eventually Rome got divided into two halves.

Then the very people it used to demolish and persecute, The Germans and the Christians became the masters of Rome.

The mistakes being made in Pakistan have a limit. The mistakes just keep on being repeated. One cannot go against the forces of nature for too long.

I truly agree with your above statement I myself was staunch back Pak army would defend serviceman in uniform at all levels but after seeing chaos in Pakistan brought on by these choors and decaits who were helped by Pak army I have lost all confidence in our armed forces.So sad that they chosen the unpatriotic side

 

[Goenitz]

the good thing is Gen addressed him as sir.. showing his humbleness..
besides military reforms, the main thing I got is intelligence failures. We didn't modernise our intelligence agencies even after TTP. Just today we lost security guards at some gas well.

 

[Falcon26]

I haven't ever watched Haider Mehdi's videos before, watched this one because of Gen Tariq, not completely though, but there were some VERY pertinent and good points mentioned.

1- Empower CJCSC position. Only he should have access to the civilian leadership
2- Create multiple 4 star positions in the Army, have a separate Southern Command, Northern/Central Command, and then a COAS.
3- Separate ISI from the army. This has been the opinion of MANY career fighting arm officers since long. Infantry, AC, Artillery, EME, no one loves ISI. The army has the MI, you use them for military intelligence and field intelligence.

The ISI undertakes foreign operations, and operations covering foreign affairs and strategic geo-political operations. You need close liaison with the civilian government and civil agencies, why does the ISI then come under the army?

As he said, separate the authority from the power. One guy should have the troops, other guy should have the authority from office. Much harder to rule with an iron fist then.

Until and unless these reforms happen within the army itself, nothing will happen. This musical chairs will keep on continuing.

At 00:46, Gen Tariq mentions the part of CMI briefings and everything. Understand this point, and then view it in light of the DG-C Faisal Naseer clarification which came through Wajahat Khan. The good old DG-C said that IK's popularity is waning, bla bla bla, he is unpopular now. Now you should understand why he said that.

To part, the words of Gen Tariq ring very true, 'The purpose of military action is not to resolve the problem, it is to create an environment which helps to resolve the problem'.

The CJCSC position should rotate among the three services as done by most professional militaries. This will reduce the prestige of the COAS position and help stabilize the military-civilian relations.

The biggest curse on Pakistan is the presence of an unchecked COAS who has total command over the country.

 

[blain2]

I haven't ever watched Haider Mehdi's videos before, watched this one because of Gen Tariq, not completely though, but there were some VERY pertinent and good points mentioned.

1- Empower CJCSC position. Only he should have access to the civilian leadership
2- Create multiple 4 star positions in the Army, have a separate Southern Command, Northern/Central Command, and then a COAS.
3- Separate ISI from the army. This has been the opinion of MANY career fighting arm officers since long. Infantry, AC, Artillery, EME, no one loves ISI. The army has the MI, you use them for military intelligence and field intelligence.

The ISI undertakes foreign operations, and operations covering foreign affairs and strategic geo-political operations. You need close liaison with the civilian government and civil agencies, why does the ISI then come under the army?

As he said, separate the authority from the power. One guy should have the troops, other guy should have the authority from office. Much harder to rule with an iron fist then.

Until and unless these reforms happen within the army itself, nothing will happen. This musical chairs will keep on continuing.

At 00:46, Gen Tariq mentions the part of CMI briefings and everything. Understand this point, and then view it in light of the DG-C Faisal Naseer clarification which came through Wajahat Khan. The good old DG-C said that IK's popularity is waning, bla bla bla, he is unpopular now. Now you should understand why he said that.

To part, the words of Gen Tariq ring very true, 'The purpose of military action is not to resolve the problem, it is to create an environment which helps to resolve the problem'.

1, 2 and 3 are essentially the American model. It definitely has its pros, albeit the con is that its an expensive proposition for Pakistan, however, in light of consolidation of too much power in the hands of the CoAS, the idea is to make the post of CoAS similar to the CJCSC. How you do that is by moving formations/troops over to the regional commands with their own 4 stars so here goes 111 Bde away from the CoAS etc.

Honestly, even without 1 and 2 above, we need a CoAS who would jealously guard the profession of soldiering. This means he would countenance no interference from the politicians and he would ensure that he runs away from politics and keeps his entire constituency completely detached from the politics. Unfortunately our domestic and foreign policy has been bastardized so much that most CoAS would find it hard to detach themselves from the mess (and some probably even relish this opportunity to play king-maker).

 

[blain2]

the good thing is Gen addressed him as sir.. showing his humbleness..
besides military reforms, the main thing I got is intelligence failures. We didn't modernise our intelligence agencies even after TTP. Just today we lost security guards at some gas well.

That is an age old tradition (and a very good one in our military). One time my father was driving his beat up Volkswagen in Karachi, Lt Gen Pervez Musharraf was driving on the same road. Saw my father, pulled his car over and paid his respects for a good 15 mins addressing him with the usual "sir, sir..." the entire time. My father was exactly 10 PMA courses his senior.

On the second point, I have to be very honest here and tell you guys the real deal. This comes from those on the inside. ISI is average. It relies more on human intelligence than technology. Its manpower is comprised of 30% uniformed cadres with officers posted in and out of the directorate. This is similar to any other posting within the army which means ISI suffers from disruptions due to the fact that the directorate is subject to the same rules as any other fighting formation where postings are part of life. The remaining 70% of the manpower is hired from civil service and the general population and provides more continuity.

I have never bought on to the hype created by internet fans of ISI being 1, 2 or 3 or any other rank. It's just a manpower intensive outfit which isn't omnipotent or omnipresent. It has its share of goofs, idiots and intelligent personnel. It has more than its share of failures and those too spectacular ones, along with victories of strategic nature. So mixed bag, nothing out of this world.

 

[blain2]

Was not expecting a decorated Pathan Lt General Tariq Khan would be coming on with a crazy Punjabi Haider Mehdi program (Haider Mehdi never spares Pak Army & ISI).

Haider Mehdi's father was my father's CO. An eccentric individual whose stories would make for fun reading. I think the son gets some of the same tendencies from his father (that aside I understand and get the gist HM is getting at, however I don't necessarily agree with everything he says). Of the bunch active on the Internet, Col Syed Akbar Hussain is a solid officer who comes from a line of upright and fantastic officers (specifically his father, SJ bar). Maj Adil means well and I have grown to like him because he is an affable fellow. May not be the most kosher individual in the eyes of the establishment, but speaks his mind.