LR-SAM Successfully Tested From INS Kolkata

[Zek]

This is what my source told me about Israel and how India is planning its own things similarly

Israel will in fact be integrating five layers of missile defense.
1. Arrow3/SM3 (Exo-Atmosphere)
2. PAC3/Barak 8 (Endo-Atmosphere)
3. Stunner David Sling (70km to 200km)
4. Tamir (Iron Dome)
5. CIWS (Phalanx or Laser based)

Barak 8 has the advantage of being a 2 stage missile which PAC3 is not with obvious gain in range and agility. Though Barak 8 speed is not advertised however IAI has consistently claimed Barak 8 as superior to PAC3, which has a speed of Mach 5.12
sourceatriot PAC-3

These are confirmed figures of agility of various missile systems available from their respective OEMs to GOI for comparative evaluation and goal setting for Barak8 project

Aster 15 : 64g
S-400 9M96E : 40g
VL-Mica : 50g
Barak 8 : 80g (owing to second stage kicking off in terminal phase having thrusters similar to Aster and THAAD)

High G ability is required for Hit to Kill capability or closest proximity detonation successfully. High G even at a relatively lower speed can compensate for low G maneuver by a very high speed incomong hostile missile to achieve intercept success.

So the above article is correct in assuming speed in excess of mach 5.12 probably reaching mach 7.

This would imply that incoming hostile interception would be much quicker then what I have assumed in my analysis. Perhaps an average speed would be similar to mach 3-3.25 (logically mach 2 for almost 75% flight time and mach 6+ for 25% flight time)
That reduces the reaction time for hostile.. Excellent concept to realization by IAI and DRDO.

I don't know where u heard this, but I know of no plans to integrate the land version of Barak 8 in Israeli's multilayer missile shield
Israel missile shield:
Arrow 3 (Exo Atmosphere)
Arrow 2 (Against very long range ballistic missiles)
David Sling that will replace PAC in the near future ( against medium to long range missiles, cruise missiles, drones, helicopters, and aircrafts) noteable that the stunner missile of david sling will be most likely integrate to the next version of Patriot.
Iron Dome - Against low range missiles, possibly drones.
Iron Beam - maybe will integrate in the near future (against mortar, artillery or missiles that are to small for the Iron Dome to intercept).
In addition to the above, Israel is working on the next version of Trophy Active Protection System for tanks that will intercept kinetic shells too, and Barak 8 OR/AND C-RAM Iron Dome for it's naval ships.
Israel defense forces current and future interceptors

 

[Mrc]

With a maneuverability tolerance of upto 80G. It can defend against anything today with ease.

It was a trick question....

To show readers level of knowledge of posters...

Thanks for replying

 

[AMCA]

It was a trick question....

To show readers level of knowledge of posters...

Thanks for replying

Oh! In that case , mine was a trick answer to show the level of knowledge of questioners.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

Sure,
Based on what you ask I am assuming :LO detection at 250km (previously 150km) and due to higher mast, Sea skimming detection at 60 km (previously 40km)

So now it looks like this below
View attachment 283750

The longer range of detection for LO hostile aircraft creates a case for Extended Range need sureshot. The Barak 8 standard version will not be able to meet the systems early detection benefits as system is more advanced. One thing is such a detection does provide us a much bigger window of communication and taking the final authorization to shoot down to missile launch for intercept. (presently its 60 secs in my assumption but i feel we can get it to comfortable 90-100 seconds window a almost 50+% increase in decision making and communication of trespass and path change for incoming hostile)

View attachment 283751

The detection of sea skimming at 60 km gives us a comfort for firing double salvo for Barak 8 speeds greater than Mach 2 engaging hostile missiles with Speed greater than Mach 3. This provides us with an additional protection in case the first Barak 8 is not able to hit the incoming missile and the second launch can engage to intercept.

Very well explained-

I would just add here that once the on-board seeker picks the target- i.e. around 10-15km the second motor fires giving additional impulse- adding Mach 1-2+ over the speed of the vehicle- Just like a NOX boost in race cars- just at much higher acceleration and thrust/mass-

So the Mach 2 become Mach 3-4+, Mach 3 becomes Mach 4-5+ and so on- accounting for the last 10-15 km of interception point-

Very nice system indeed........
Can it defend against anti ship ballistic missile???

Limited terminal defense capabilities exist but It cannot be called as substantial- or I would say not enough to be categorized as BMD-

 

[Chanakyaa]

CM400AKG has mach 4(apparently) at its terminal stages!! So missile when launched has far lesser speed and gives the more time for interception?!

Oh Plz. Dont Compare Them .. Plz.. I mean.. Is it about Speed ? Really ?
Its Apples vs Oranges !

Barak 8 is a Brahmos Killer. Period.

Enter CM400AKG :

First Lets See what is CM400AKG :

The CM-400AKG is a smaller and lighter version of the YJ-12 anti-ship missile intended for use by tactical fighter aircraft such as the FC-1, J-10 and Su-30MKK/J-11. The supersonic CM-400AKG missile weighs 400 kg and has a maximum range of up to 100/250 kilometers and can fly at a top speed of Mach 4 carrying a 150/200 kg warhead. The missile is fitted with either a blast fragmentation or a penetration warhead to engage surface ships or fixed-position ground targets respectively. The missile can be fitted with an active radar seeker or an imaging infrared (IIR) seeker. The propulsion system uses a solid fuel rocket motor. The CM-400AKG anti-ship missile has been ordered by the Air Forces of Pakistan and China.

The range of the CM-400AKG is estimated to be in the 180-250 km class. It is designed for use against fixed or what were described as "slow moving" targets. CASIC data indicates that after launch the CM-400AKG climbs to high altitude and terminates with a high-speed dive on the target. The PAF describes the missile's impact velocity as "hypersonic" (> Mach 5).

A list of system features appears to confirm an unusual characteristic associated with the CM-400. Unlike most high-speed cruise missiles, which fly at low altitude to avoid detection, the CM-400 uses “high [altitude] launching” to achieve “higher aircraft survivability”, according to the video.

Data Indicates That CASIC launch after the CM-400AKG climbs to high altitude and Terminates with a high-speed dive on the target. The PAF describe the missile’s impact velocity as “hypersonic”.

Sources :
China supersonic CM-400 AKG long range anti-ship and land attack missile | Exploring the World

China Develops CM-400AKG Pakistan's Hypersonic Carrier Killer Missile For JF-17 - ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

DUBAI: China details performance of 'carrier killer' missile for JF-17 - Missile ThreatMissile Threat

The Above facts can be also verfied From Janes :

So Clearly CM400 is a MUCH MUCH Inferior Missile ( as compared to Brahmos ) when we consider the points as follows :

A. CM400 Follows a BALLISTIC Trajectory

This makes the missile predicatble and since the missile can ONLY be launched from High Altitudes, its Detections is Much Much Earlier.

Brahmos is a TRUE Sea Skimming Missile and will not even appear on the radar EXCEPT for the last few seconds before impact !

B. CM400 is ONLY and ONLY for SLOW / Fixed Targets

Due to its Ballistic Trajectory, Its not possible to Target Highspeed Targets.

Brahmos, is a Weapon to Fear.. It can make Unique S manuevers and take any turn within its Range to Lock and Destroy the Target.

C. CM400 is NOT a Terrain Hugging / Sea Skimming Missile

Since CM400 is a High Altitude Air Launched Missile. Hence, its NOT a Terrain Hugging Missile as believed by many.

D. Its Speed ( Like ALL the BMs ) is at Max, 4 Mach ONLY and ONLY in the Terminal Phase, Just before it Reaches its Max Range.

Contrary to what Pakistani's Try to believe ist NOT a Mach 4+ Missile. Just like their Shaheen and Gauri this Missile is a BM used in Naval role.

Hence Just like NAsr or Shaheen its Terminal / Impact Speed is in the range of Mach 4.

Brahmos, is Supersonic THROUGHOUT its Course.

E. Is ONLY Air Launched ( With Minimum Payload for JF17 )

Its ONLY Air Launched and Paksitan DOES NOT have a Carrier. So it Limits the usage of the Missile to ONLY within a close range to the Shores.

Brahmos, OTOH , is Air , Submarine , Ship and Land Launched Missile.

F. Almost No Manuverability and Defence against SAMs

As per the Available The Worst part of CM400. It CANNOT change its Course , Thats the reason why its SPECIFIALLY mentioned to be applicable for FIXED and SLOW Targets ONLY !

Plus, This also means that the best Naval SAM, Barak 8 will have an Easy Target to deal with.

Additionally CM400 will Face Indian CMD Defences with Includes :

1. First point of defense is Patroling aircraft (F18/Rafael/MiG29K)
2. second layer of defence is Air defense ships (usually frigates) with 3 layer of security, LRSAM, MR-SAM, SR-SAM
3. 3rd layer of security is Carrier itself, the SAM on carrier
4. 4th layer of security is gatelling gun, it create a wall of bullets in front of invader...

Source: Error

 

[Jamwal's]

There are several on Israeli (ex IDF) forums,who claimed that India had secretly provided Brahmos to Israel,for testing and validating Barak 8 successful interception.

 

[Zek]

There are several on Israeli (ex IDF) forums,who claimed that India had secretly provided Brahmos to Israel,for testing and validating Barak 8 successful interception.

Makes sense, altho, Im sure Israel got it's hands on wide variety of anti ship weapons.

 

[Jamwal's]

Makes sense, altho, Im sure Israel got it's hands on wide variety of anti ship weapons.

But nothing like Brahmos,possession of Yakhont or Onyx (?) with Syria lead to the development of Brahmos.


And Indian Navy has both the threat (Brahmos) and cure (Barak 8) on same Platform Kolkata Class.

 

[Zek]

But nothing like Brahmos,possession of Yakhont or Onyx (?) with Syria lead to the development of Brahmos.


And Indian Navy has both the threat (Brahmos) and cure (Barak 8) on same Platform Kolkata Class.

If all versions of Onyx ain't in IDF inventory i'd be suprise

 

[Jamwal's]

If all versions of Onyx ain't in IDF inventory i'd be suprise

From where ? Captured from Hizbollah ?

 

[Zek]

From where ? Captured from Hizbollah ?

I'd even claim they got them from Russia, but Israelies showed the capability to get their hands on what ever they need in the past, just like in Trophy APS case.
Anyway, it's all speculations

 

[surya kiran]

Very nice system indeed........
Can it defend against anti ship ballistic missile???

With the EL/M-2248 deployed on board the Kolkata class, it is believed that it can.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I'd even claim they got them from Russia, but Israelies showed the capability to get their hands on what ever they need in the past, just like in Trophy APS case.
Anyway, it's all speculations

Even that claim is quite credible........

 

[Donatello]

CM400AKG has mach 4(apparently) at its terminal stages!! So missile when launched has far lesser speed and gives the more time for interception?!

you need to detect it before you can intercept it. With massive amounts of jamming, good luck.

CM400AKG is hypersonic in only terminal while the same is true for Barak-8 also. But we believe speed is not the only factor. Agility, pulling high Gs that's what we are trying to factor in while preparing our missile. Added advantage for BARAK is that it is supersonic in all stage after level flight excluding terminal flight. And anyways it will focus on head on engagement more of the time compared to tail chase owing to its medium range while land based BARAK is being tested with booster rocket so it will have more range thus good for tail chase as well. Hope that clarifies your query.

Sorry, i forgot that the Israeli Barak 8 system is in use by India......so it must be superior to any intergalactic shyt out there. Right boss?

 

[kaykay]

For the first time It has been known true speed of LR-SAM which is 5-7 mach. While its g-limit is known for sometime now(80G), Its one of the best anti-Supersonic/Subsonic cruise missile SAM.