Looking Back on Musharraf's Decision to Join "War on Terror"

[deckingraj]

What the situation "warranted" is the crux of the matter here....and I don't believe, nor do many others, that the situation warranted the use of nukes on purely civilian targets in not just one but two cities. Japanese military was already on its knees and it was just a matter of time before they folded.

Well then you need to read the history books again...If your concern is about bombing civilian areas then that line was crossed way earlier then nukes....If you look at the number of casualties then NAPALM killed far more Japs then nukes....As far as Japanese military on its knees is concerned then that point also don't help ground....They were on their knees way back but refused to accept defeat....

Yankees levelled many cities of Japanese by brute force of Napalm...Japanese had no answer to the relentless Air Strikes that US was carrying yet they were not ready to surrender...If we go by some historians then even the Nuclear attack did not hault the Japanese campaign...Civilian casualties was no deterrent for Japs....

The final nail in the coffin was the entry of ruskies in the war arena...Japs had their hopes of using Russia as a channel for favourable negotiations but after they entered in the war theater there was practically nothing possible...

 

[RiazHaq]

Well then you need to read the history books again...If your concern is about bombing civilian areas then that line was crossed way earlier then nukes....If you look at the number of casualties then NAPALM killed far more Japs then nukes....As far as Japanese military on its knees is concerned then that point also don't help ground....They were on their knees way back but refused to accept defeat....

Yankees levelled many cities of Japanese by brute force of Napalm...Japanese had no answer to the relentless Air Strikes that US was carrying yet they were not ready to surrender...If we go by some historians then even the Nuclear attack did not hault the Japanese campaign...Civilian casualties was no deterrent for Japs....

The final nail in the coffin was the entry of ruskies in the war arena...Japs had their hopes of using Russia as a channel for favourable negotiations but after they entered in the war theater there was practically nothing possible...

I am sorry to say that you are oblivious to the widely recognized big red line between conventional and nuclear weapons. Not only are the nukes much more destructive, but there is the long-term damage that such weapons cause to their victims.

I hope and pray that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki remain the first and the last use of nukes against human targets by any one.

 

[third eye]

What the situation "warranted" is the crux of the matter here....and I don't believe, nor do many others, that the situation warranted the use of nukes on purely civilian targets in not just one but two cities. Japanese military was already on its knees and it was just a matter of time before they folded.

Well, you are entitled to your view and so am I.

Personally , I am not a fan of nukes either but Govt take calls based on their inputs. Repercussions to what they intend to do & the ability to handle it are part of the inputs considered.

In 45, they must have surely weighed them.

Hitlers V2 rockets or Saddams Scuds were area weapons - had they got nukes, they too would have tipped their rockets / missiles with them - thats the point I am trying to put across.

On the subject of Japs being on their knees - this has been discussed here in the past. It was simply a case of cost - benefit analysis of either the nukes Vs months of dragging the war .

It is worth noting back in 39 -45 sensitivity to the point of civilian Vs military targets was not as acute as today. When the Brits fire bombed Germany targeting its industry civilians came in the line- they were the targets.

 

[deckingraj]

I am sorry to say that you are oblivious to the widely recognized big red line between conventional and nuclear weapons. Not only are the nukes much more destructive, but there is the long-term damage that such weapons cause to their victims.

I hope and pray that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki remain the first and the last use of nukes against human targets by any one.

Ohh don't get me wrong there...I am not trying to justify nukes there...

All i was doing was challenging you point of what situation warranted...Conventional means of destroying cities after cities with NAPALM was being conducted on daily basis. Japan had no answer to the merciless American Air Strikes. The anti-aircraft guns were not build in for the much lower range at which Americans were flying their huge bombers...IN short they had no remedy for American Strikes and risk being cooked by Napalm should they choose to carry on the conflict further. And guess what they did??? The choose to carry on...They were pinning their hopes on American ground invasion which never happened...

As said before if we go by accounts then even nukes did not bring in the surrender....Japanese imperialistic mindset had no understanding of what surrender means...Anyways i too hope and wish they were the last nukes to be used anywhere...

 

[deckingraj]

Well, you are entitled to your view and so am I.

Personally , I am not a fan of nukes either but Govt take calls based on their inputs. Repercussions to what they intend to do & the ability to handle it are part of the inputs considered.

In 45, they must have surely weighed them.

Hitlers V2 rockets or Saddams Scuds were area weapons - had they got nukes, they too would have tipped their rockets / missiles with them - thats the point I am trying to put across.

On the subject of Japs being on their knees - this has been discussed here in the past. It was simply a case of cost - benefit analysis of either the nukes Vs months of dragging the war .

It is worth noting back in 39 -45 sensitivity to the point of civilian Vs military targets was not as acute as today. When the Brits fire bombed Germany targeting its industry civilians came in the line- they were the targets.

Then you are plane wrong...The very reason with which USA and Britain declared war on Japs was the atrocities they conducted on Chinese civilians..Ironically they were against the similar atrocities that Yanks and Brits conducted during their expansions a few decades back...

However that's the reality of wars...They are evil...There are many accounts where Churchill specifically ordered Air-Raids on civilian areas because he wanted to send a message to Germans that they have been defeated. I would suggest you to read about excessive usage of Napalm on Japanese cities very well knowing that their houses are made of wood...In fact NAPALM was perfected in US on similar houses made to understand the damage they will bring on Japanese cities...

My point is there was lot of sense about not targeting civilian areas but better sense evaporated quickly as the war dragged on..I don't see any reason that this will not happen in any conflict today or in future...

 

[hunter_hunted]

Is that the solution to every problem?

Then u should tell us whats d solution a guy who raped Pakistan for 8 years and when the time ran out he fled to safe land. Is this how criminals should be treated If yes then Allah protect Pakistan.

 

[somebozo]

Irfan

When OBL was let to escape at tora bora---the whole of the scenario changed within moments------. The world was looking at it in astonishment with mouths agape----but then there were others like me who were crying out for pak millitary to wake up and take charge-----.

Take out the escaping al qaeda operatives and cull them----time was of the ultimate essence------kill them all in one go and bear the brunt of a minor storm----and everything would die down in due time----.

Where the pak generals failed was being clueless to the severity of the happenings in the future----. They had no vision---. I mean to say that if you pickup any book of history and read about warfare---the first important thing that you notice is that any and every insurgency had been dealt with extremely sever by any monarch or leader right from the gitgo---wherever the control failed---the insurgency went out of control.

Case in point---swat---Musharraf let Mullah Falalullah play the game----what was Musharraf thinking----. Is that how incompetent pakistani generals are.

Dude if you know ground reality of Pak Afghan border, it is impossible to seal. No power has been able to control this border. Secondly if terrorist were indeed planning to attack America then they would not choose sunday, a weekend as their day because that is bound to cause lowest causalities where as terrorist intention is to cause maximum damage in one blow. It clearly seems the attacks was planned as to minimize the damage. If nazi their burns their own reichstag and jewish bankers can sell their community men to nazi forces in exchange of assylum to Switzerland, then you can expect anything from these kafirs.

Media has never played such an unethical role of brainwashing and disinformation as it has done in the post 9/11 world. The constant showering of words like "Islamic millitants" "Islamic extremist" "Inslamic fundamentals" and "Islamic terrorist" has its implication in the long term. It is a delibrete thought out propaganda of preparing the future generation to become mentally comfortable in targeting of Muslims and considering them as some savage barbarian community of sub-humans. No matter how much the Zionists and infidels deny, truth cannot be hidden. Since there is no "scientefic" scale to judge the Muslims, it begins with attacking the hard core elements like the Taliban and jehadi madrassa students, gradually as the hardcore elements are eradicated, the gun turns towards ordinary Muslims like me and you and eventually moderate religiosity like keeping fast, wearing headscarves of praying in a mosque also becomes a target. Our future generations will wake up and realize WTF happened??

 

[third eye]

Then you are plane wrong...The very reason with which USA and Britain declared war on Japs was the atrocities they conducted on Chinese civilians..Ironically they were against the similar atrocities that Yanks and Brits conducted during their expansions a few decades back...

However that's the reality of wars...They are evil...There are many accounts where Churchill specifically ordered Air-Raids on civilian areas because he wanted to send a message to Germans that they have been defeated. I would suggest you to read about excessive usage of Napalm on Japanese cities very well knowing that their houses are made of wood...In fact NAPALM was perfected in US on similar houses made to understand the damage they will bring on Japanese cities...

My point is there was lot of sense about not targeting civilian areas but better sense evaporated quickly as the war dragged on..I don't see any reason that this will not happen in any conflict today or in future...

When I checked last the US went to war with Japan after 7 Dec 41 - Pearl Harbour, similarly the Brits & Japs went to war not coz of Chinese Civilians but SE Asia.

 

[MastanKhan]

Dude if you know ground reality of Pak Afghan border, it is impossible to seal. No power has been able to control this border. Secondly if terrorist were indeed planning to attack America then they would not choose sunday, a weekend as their day because that is bound to cause lowest causalities where as terrorist intention is to cause maximum damage in one blow. It clearly seems the attacks was planned as to minimize the damage. If nazi their burns their own reichstag and jewish bankers can sell their community men to nazi forces in exchange of assylum to Switzerland, then you can expect anything from these kafirs.


Sir,

I appreciate your comments----here are some basics of land geography---when you entered the passes at tora bora----there are only so many place on the other side that you can come out of----in a certain time----that was the time to take them in and take them out.

It is beyond any discussion of who attacked what and why they attacked where they attacked---. What is important is that they were not pakistanis---they were not afghans----they were arabs and egyptians---they were not our citizens---they gave us enough cause to execute them for just being the suspects---being foreigners bringing the wrath of the world number one superpower----that was reason enough to execute them cold blooded on the slopes of hindu kush---.