Longewala 'lies' - Nailed

[Joe Shearer]

Without the Army post the armoured force would've moved past the post as the IAF birds couldn't fly at night so the IA bought time for the IAF to come and obliterate the enemy. I can't see where there is an controversy in this?

here comes the faun historian.
screw u and screw india.

What makes you think that this foul language makes your post more acceptable?

its fine example of a pakistani telling it off to a pakistani who is always a smartass.
when he sees his fellow pakistanis arguing with indians he comes in and attacks the pakistanis instead of indians. you are a najam sethi type of pakistani and i hate najam sethi with all my heart.

Sadly, there are some who have nothing to do but indulge in personal abuse and attack those whose shoes they are not fit to tie.

 

[IND151]

His contention is IAF obliterated the Pakistani Armor whereas, the on pop culture, army got the kudos for holding the post all night long...

Both contentions are correct as the Army did hold the fort with 200 soldiers and a recoiless rifle against an armored division and a Infantry division....

But the IAF came to the rescue and obliterated the attacking force, Not the ARMY... Which is true... But if the army did not hold the post the Pakistani thrust would have neutralized the jaisalmer forward base, and thus the outcome would be very different....

I am afraid many members who have visited this thread have not even bothered to read OP thoroughly.

 

[MilSpec]

I am afraid many members who have visited this thread have not even bothered to read OP thoroughly.

That is a norm for most threads buddy

 

[SQ8]

just don't piss me off bro. you already on my bad side from earlier statements i don't want to put you on there permanently.

Nobody gives a hoot about any of your sides. But your back side seems to be in bad shape if all your frothing and foul mouthed reflections of mental capacity are any testament.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Bangalis won not India, India never wins she only goes for a ride

Now, now; that must be true. Bangalis must be the "New Supermen" now. I better keep clear of them.
And you @xyxmt; you better keep clear of them too! Remember that we got quite a few Bangalis here.
They will chew you up for break-fast and spit you out before lunch.....

 

[SQ8]

The author may not be wrong as such. After all, it was truly the IAF that saved the day(to which the PA kept crying foul without considering that the PAF warned them beforehand that support would be difficult for such a op and that it would take more than a week to get the FoB running to provide effective support). Otherwise , sheer numerical and equipment superiority would have ensured the routing of the IA force the next day.

 

[Tameem]

-- Indians trained 60,000 insurgents and pushed them into E. Bengal from April.
-- when insurgency failed to accomplish the task and it was December already, Indian army was ready for invasion
-- Pakistani army got the wind of it and started the war on Western front to relieve the pressure on the Eastern Pakistan
-- However Pakistani army strategy was about 20 years old in 1971
-- why? because Indian army had enough man power to fight a two front war especially in the air.
-- While IAF was beaten black and blue in 1965, the tables were turned in 1971. Now PAF was on the defensive.

If by only sending thousands of Insurgents and then waging war finally India easily accomplish a hurculean task of breaking a united East and West Pakistan militarily alone, then why couldn't it replicates the same in remaining weak West Pakistan (specially Punjab & Sindh) as well didn't your judgement is totally flop as its completely lacks an essential ingredient.....which any lay man like Qamar1990 could rightly picked and highlighted anytime....but a grand arrogant faujihistorian like you couldn't read it easily in his entire life.........!

Peace

 

[indiatester]

If by only sending thousands of Insurgents and then waging war finally India easily accomplish a hurculean task of breaking a united East and West Pakistan militarily alone, then why couldn't it replicates the same in remaining weak West Pakistan (specially Punjab & Sindh) as well didn't your judgement is totally flop as its completely lacks an essential ingredient.....which any lay man like Qamar1990 could rightly picked and highlighted anytime....but a grand arrogant faujihistorian like you couldn't read it easily in his entire life.........!

Peace

Because India didn't want to? Well more because the world opinion was definitely against India going for a breakup of W. Pakistan.
Not to mention that the task would have not been as easy as victory in E. Pakistan.

Good enough reasons for you @Tameem

 

[SQ8]

If by only sending thousands of Insurgents and then waging war finally India easily accomplish a hurculean task of breaking a united East and West Pakistan militarily alone, then why couldn't it replicates the same in remaining weak West Pakistan (specially Punjab & Sindh) as well didn't your judgement is totally flop as its completely lacks an essential ingredient.....which any lay man like Qamar1990 could rightly picked and highlighted anytime....but a grand arrogant faujihistorian like you couldn't read it easily in his entire life.........!

Peace

Actually, that was the idea in 71 as well. Indra Gandhi did not mean to stop east at all, and the actions towards the monabao axis as well as efforts to close the Shakargarh bulge were all to finish the Pakistan problem once and for all. Like it or not, it was the US 7th fleet and Nixon's posturing on ensuring that the more vital west Pakistan lay intact that Indra backed down.

I disagree with FH on the PAF's performance being better in 65, they actually did a much better job in 71 considering the disadvantages they faced.

 

[Tameem]

Actually, that was the idea in 71 as well. Indra Gandhi did not mean to stop east at all, and the actions towards the monabao axis as well as efforts to close the Shakargarh bulge were all to finish the Pakistan problem once and for all. Like it or not, it was the US 7th fleet and Nixon's posturing on ensuring that the more vital west Pakistan lay intact that Indra backed down.

I disagree with FH on the PAF's performance being better in 65, they actually did a much better job in 71 considering the disadvantages they faced.

Why that was in 71 alone, why not afterwards? Why not Post Kargil? Post Parliment attack? or Post Mumbai? Oscar the broad point is remains the same, 71 is the weakest point in Pakistani history not bcz of militarily specifically but only due to political anarchy & division in our own ranks as a nation......even that scenario could not be exemplified with current Talibans barbarism and mutiny. Just Imagine it will be a hard glue for whole Pakistani nation If India Invades today something we gravely missed in 71 and that's a lay man's common sense wisdom which Unfortunately the self proclaimed historian gravely overlooked just to earn brownie points for Aman ki Asha against their own countrymen.

 

[SQ8]

Why that was in 71 alone, why not afterwards? Why not Post Kargil? Post Parliment attack? or Post Mumbai? Oscar the broad point is remains the same, 71 is the weakest point in Pakistani history not bcz of militarily specifically but only due to political anarchy & division in our own ranks as a nation......even that scenario could not be exemplified with current Talibans barbarism and mutiny. Just Imagine it will be a hard glue for whole Pakistani nation If India Invades today something we gravely missed in 71 and that's a lay man's common sense wisdom which Unfortunately the self proclaimed historian gravely overlooked just to earn brownie points for Aman ki Asha against their own countrymen.

You have to count the times that American or other diplomatic intervention has kept India from invading you till you got your nuclear weapon. The Whole brasstacks episode is still taken as a time when India could have launched an attack had it wished to with Pakistan having no ability to mount a successful defence then except perhaps a few nukes here and there.

Since you did go public with your nuclear capability in 98, you have effectively declared the deterrence that keeps India from giving you a massive conventional battering. Secondly..Be it Kargil, Parliament Attack or otherwise.. India has been kept grinding its teeth on the calculation that while it holds a certain victory on any objectives its chooses against you; it cannot guarantee that its own forces will escape unacceptable losses of men and material in that process which will set it back against the world by a magnitude of years. Years that Indian strategists, economists have spent many more years trying to plan out and built on in terms of infrastructure,society and environment.

Hence, the reason for the extremely disproportionate buildup of the Indian military is not just their purported two front war(which in my view is a farce) but rather to ensure that if and when the opportunity presents itself to exact warfare on Pakistan in which they can guarantee minimal nuclear damage on themselves or outright find a denuclearized Pakistan they are able to dominate the battlespace and achieve their objectives of essentially creating a post first world war Germany after the treaty of Versailles situation for Pakistan(and essentially all subcontinent Muslims indirectly) of being forced to be toothless and subservient. Your nuclear assets deter them to this day and minute simply because they dont want to have the losses felt at their own homes in that magnitude. When(and not if) Pakistan's nuclear capability is neutered for whatever reasons.. India will come crashing down your doorstep regardless of whatever Ashas or latas you hold dear.

 

[kbd-raaf]

You have to count the times that American or other diplomatic intervention has kept India from invading you till you got your nuclear weapon. The Whole brasstacks episode is still taken as a time when India could have launched an attack had it wished to with Pakistan having no ability to mount a successful defence then except perhaps a few nukes here and there.

Since you did go public with your nuclear capability in 98, you have effectively declared the deterrence that keeps India from giving you a massive conventional battering. Secondly..Be it Kargil, Parliament Attack or otherwise.. India has been kept grinding its teeth on the calculation that while it holds a certain victory on any objectives its chooses against you; it cannot guarantee that its own forces will escape unacceptable losses of men and material in that process which will set it back against the world by a magnitude of years. Years that Indian strategists, economists have spent many more years trying to plan out and built on in terms of infrastructure,society and environment.

Hence, the reason for the extremely disproportionate buildup of the Indian military is not just their purported two front war(which in my view is a farce) but rather to ensure that if and when the opportunity presents itself to exact warfare on Pakistan in which they can guarantee minimal nuclear damage on themselves or outright find a denuclearized Pakistan they are able to dominate the battlespace and achieve their objectives of essentially creating a post first world war Germany after the treaty of Versailles situation for Pakistan(and essentially all subcontinent Muslims indirectly) of being forced to be toothless and subservient. Your nuclear assets deter them to this day and minute simply because they dont want to have the losses felt at their own homes in that magnitude. When(and not if) Pakistan's nuclear capability is neutered for whatever reasons.. India will come crashing down your doorstep regardless of whatever Ashas or latas you hold dear.

Why are you referring to Pakistan/Pakistanis as, you or your etc? Are you not Pakistani yourself?

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

You have to count the times that American or other diplomatic intervention has kept India from invading you till you got your nuclear weapon. The Whole brasstacks episode is still taken as a time when India could have launched an attack had it wished to with Pakistan having no ability to mount a successful defence then except perhaps a few nukes here and there.

Since you did go public with your nuclear capability in 98, you have effectively declared the deterrence that keeps India from giving you a massive conventional battering. Secondly..Be it Kargil, Parliament Attack or otherwise.. India has been kept grinding its teeth on the calculation that while it holds a certain victory on any objectives its chooses against you; it cannot guarantee that its own forces will escape unacceptable losses of men and material in that process which will set it back against the world by a magnitude of years. Years that Indian strategists, economists have spent many more years trying to plan out and built on in terms of infrastructure,society and environment.

Hence, the reason for the extremely disproportionate buildup of the Indian military is not just their purported two front war(which in my view is a farce) but rather to ensure that if and when the opportunity presents itself to exact warfare on Pakistan in which they can guarantee minimal nuclear damage on themselves or outright find a denuclearized Pakistan they are able to dominate the battlespace and achieve their objectives of essentially creating a post first world war Germany after the treaty of Versailles situation for Pakistan(and essentially all subcontinent Muslims indirectly) of being forced to be toothless and subservient. Your nuclear assets deter them to this day and minute simply because they dont want to have the losses felt at their own homes in that magnitude. When(and not if) Pakistan's nuclear capability is neutered for whatever reasons.. India will come crashing down your doorstep regardless of whatever Ashas or latas you hold dear.

Oh the religious insecurity finally comes to the forefront. Why can't you guys keep religion out of anything?

 

[Ayush]

Versailles situation for Pakistan(and essentially all subcontinent Muslims indirectly)

LOL.
so u think we are gonna send all our muslims to a defeated pakistan?
or do u mean to say all the muslims of indian subcontinent live in pak only?

 

[dray]

You have to count the times that American or other diplomatic intervention has kept India from invading you till you got your nuclear weapon. The Whole brasstacks episode is still taken as a time when India could have launched an attack had it wished to with Pakistan having no ability to mount a successful defence then except perhaps a few nukes here and there.

Since you did go public with your nuclear capability in 98, you have effectively declared the deterrence that keeps India from giving you a massive conventional battering. Secondly..Be it Kargil, Parliament Attack or otherwise.. India has been kept grinding its teeth on the calculation that while it holds a certain victory on any objectives its chooses against you; it cannot guarantee that its own forces will escape unacceptable losses of men and material in that process which will set it back against the world by a magnitude of years. Years that Indian strategists, economists have spent many more years trying to plan out and built on in terms of infrastructure,society and environment.

Hence, the reason for the extremely disproportionate buildup of the Indian military is not just their purported two front war(which in my view is a farce) but rather to ensure that if and when the opportunity presents itself to exact warfare on Pakistan in which they can guarantee minimal nuclear damage on themselves or outright find a denuclearized Pakistan they are able to dominate the battlespace and achieve their objectives of essentially creating a post first world war Germany after the treaty of Versailles situation for Pakistan(and essentially all subcontinent Muslims indirectly) of being forced to be toothless and subservient. Your nuclear assets deter them to this day and minute simply because they dont want to have the losses felt at their own homes in that magnitude. When(and not if) Pakistan's nuclear capability is neutered for whatever reasons.. India will come crashing down your doorstep regardless of whatever Ashas or latas you hold dear.

The red part; how? Are you referring to military means or diplomatic/political means?