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Long March: China’s fifth-generation fighter is years away

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http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/01/04/351462long-march-chinas-fifth-generation-fighter-is-years.html

Images of a new aircraft purported to be China's fifth-generation fighter have created a stir among aviation enthusiasts, but a true Chinese combat aircraft in this category is probably well over a decade away from readiness.

In late December grainy photographs emerged on Chinese websites of an aircraft described as the fifth-generation Chengdu J-20. Most of the images appeared to show the aircraft during taxi tests, although one especially pixellated image showed what appeared to be the new aircraft close to taking off.

While there is the possibility that the aircraft is a hoax, Chinese air force generals have reportedly hinted about the existence of a fifth-generation fighter programme known as J-XX.

Some similarities to the Lockheed Martin F-22 and Sukhoi's PAK-FA/T-50 demonstrator are apparent. The J-20 features a blended fuselage and large, canted twin tails, while its fuselage has some low-observable characteristics. On the other hand, the aircraft's thrust nozzles are clearly fixed, whereas thrust vectoring has become de rigueur for even some fourth-generation fighters.


Douglas Barrie, senior fellow for military aerospace at the Institute of Strategic Studies, warns about concluding much based on available images.

"Drawing even tentative conclusions about anything other than the basic airframe configuration strikes me as speculative," he says. "The canard-delta configuration, coupled with canted vertical fins, is reminiscent of MiG's now cancelled 1.42 programme, and it would be interesting to know why the Chinese designers settled on this approach, rather than that of the Lockheed F-22 or Sukhoi T-50 platform."Barrie says Sukhoi moved away from the "tri-plane" configuration in its latest revision of the Su-27, the Su-27SM2/Su-35, which disposes of the canard design of the Su-27M.

The J-20 also appears to be very large for a fighter. In one photo it dwarfs a truck, suggesting a size similar to the General Dynamics F-111, or perhaps more appropriately the long-retired Tupolev Tu-128. Size alone could suggest that the aircraft is not a fighter, but a bomber.

Teal Group analyst Richard Aboulafia is also dubious about the new aircraft. "I'm less sure that it's even much of an impressive airframe," he says. "There are two rather large canards. I'm not sure that can be reconciled with a low-observable design. It looks like something that might have been designed in 1985."

Despite China's clear ambitions to be a leader in both civil and military aviation, other programmes suggest that it lacks the building blocks to create a truly fifth-generation combat aircraft.



This pixellated image suggests that the J-20 has come close to flying


Chengdu's fourth-generation J-10 first appeared in 2006 after a decade of testing, but many experts feel it is comparable with Western aircraft of the 1980s. More recently, Beijing has struggled to develop the Shenyang J-15 carrier-borne fighter, a reverse-engineered version of the Su-33 that first flew 25 years ago.

One area where China is particularly weak is jet engines, with reports suggesting that its most advanced model, the Shenyang WS-10, requires an overhaul after every 20h of operation. The J-10 uses Russian Saturn AL-31s, as does the J-11B, a locally produced version of the Su-27. Even the Chengdu JF-17 Thunder - an inexpensive aircraft pitched to developing nations such as Pakistan as a third-generation platform - is powered by the Klimov RD-93.

"People have seen the F-22 and this has given them ideas about how to approach stealth," says Richard Bitzinger, a senior fellow with Singapore's S Rajaratnam School of International Studies' Military Transformations Programme.

He points out that the F-22, the world's only operational stealth fighter, relies not only on a low-observable design, but also on the sophisticated integration of coatings and materials. The US Air Force type is also covered with sensors and avionics, many of which remain classified.

"The J-20 could make its first flight this year, but it is bound to have a long flight-test programme," Bitzinger says. In his view, China's fifth-generation fighter is over a decade away. For the time being the country will focus on cost-effective programmes such as the J-10 and J-11B to replace older types such as its air force's Chengdu J-7s - based on the Mikoyan MiG-21 - and Shenyang J-8s.

Bitzinger says that if China were to field J-10s and J-11Bs in sufficient numbers, it would be able to outclass key regional rivals such as Japan and Taiwan.
 
the low US and Indian IQ is incapable of understanding why China has the capacity to build these planes. Their rigid education system based on fake "creativity" has completely destroyed their ability to think rationally. We first need to think about what physical infrastructure is necessary to even begin research on a fighter plane, about separating systems from components, and thinking critically on objectives, context and history.
 
the low US and Indian IQ is incapable of understanding why China has the capacity to build these planes. Their rigid education system based on fake "creativity" has completely destroyed their ability to think rationally. We first need to think about what physical infrastructure is necessary to even begin research on a fighter plane, about separating systems from components, and thinking critically on objectives, context and history.


The only person with low IQ is yourself as you seem unable to read when this article is nothing to do with India but comes from a western source. :agree:
 
i mentioned the US as well. the writers obviously are either trying to mislead the public, are confused about the difference between systems and components, or have no idea what the physical infrastructure needed to build an airplane are, the later 2 due to low IQ.
 
flightglobal is not a mickey mouse site for defence information but is a highley regarded source. Although early to judge the J-20 it is intresting what defence experts make of the pic's:

Teal Group analyst Richard Aboulafia is also dubious about the new aircraft. "I'm less sure that it's even much of an impressive airframe," he says. "There are two rather large canards. I'm not sure that can be reconciled with a low-observable design. It looks like something that might have been designed in 1985."
 
i mentioned the US as well. the writers obviously are either trying to mislead the public, are confused about the difference between systems and components, or have no idea what the physical infrastructure needed to build an airplane are, the later 2 due to low IQ.
Right...So Waldron is an idiot while Sweetman and Kopp are geniuses? How can you tell who has the higher IQ? The one who fawns the most over China?
 
You may not agree with Dr. Kopp but that does not make the points less valid. These writers do not seem to understand the basic difference between components and systems nor do they seem to understand what physical infrastructure is needed to make an airplane and why it is a joke to think that Japan could make an airplane independently (remember the ShinShin?) and China can't.
 
Right...So Waldron is an idiot while Sweetman and Kopp are geniuses? How can you tell who has the higher IQ? The one who fawns the most over China?

"viet-commie" IQ rating;

(1) US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has the highest IQ regarding prediction of China's 5 gen fighter.:tup:

(2) Adm. Robert F. Willard, commander of the U.S. Pacific Command has the lowest IQ regarding saying DF-21D is in initial operation status.:tdown:

(3) John mccain's IQ rating?.......no comment cos he is a "white" American hero?:lol:
 
It doesn't really matter what others think. Whether the J-20 is an air superiority fighter or a bomber and whether the plane will take off within 10 years is not determined by what others believe or wishes to believe.
 
I'd say not yet, but we will by the time they're done with the prototypes.
 
I don't disagree with the argument presented. I think Chinese members here need to swallow criticisms once in a while. Dismissing other opinions and flaming those who voice their opinion is reminiscent of the actions of the Communist Party.

You guys need to brace for more reports of J-20's shortcomings as the program develops.
 
10 years is not so bad considering we all thought Chinese military is a good 50 years behind the US's, before... Now what its 10?
 
10 years is a pretty fair timeline, China has a good direction but is still miles away from even a final prototype. With even Russia putting out a 2016-2017 final date on its 5th generation thrust, China can easily look at 2020+. It still has a long way to go in many departments, but yet China will surely be the 3rd nation to develop a 5th generation aircraft.

---------- Post added at 09:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 AM ----------

India can make LCA but china cannot make J20..
Ha what a logic!

I hope you know the difference between a 4th and 5th generation aircraft, there is much more to it that just 1 digit. Whats your point in dragging India into this argument ?
 
nothing wrong with this article. the plane is just a prototype. the high thrust engine is not even ready yet, and many more things that we don't know..

only problem is size of this plane that those so called experts estimate, which is ridiculously huge. all the pics i've seen so far seems to be not more than 21m long, shorter than the flanker.
 
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