Lockheed Martin plans India-centred global supply chain

[A.P. Richelieu]

well then if we buy US Fighter we get startegically important US backing and trade benfits of many kind plus there are at least dozen nations with diffrent kinds of war doctroine to help us make a unique war doctroine around it


well the new version called Blk70/72 has a 3rd gen GaN based AESA radar not a GaA based one but lets see what comes and when till then your guess is as good as mine .... cheers mate


you aswered just the way i hoped for ... cheers sirji

If the US wants a strategic cooperation with India, then selecting F-16 or not is not a make/break decision.
A Gripen sale will result in a lot of business for US companies as well.

The F-16 Block 70/72 has GaAs based APG-83.
Grumman, the manufacturer of APG-83 does have GaN technology in G/ATOR,
but that does not mean they will upgrade the APG-83 to GaN without a commitment for large orders.

Do You have any sources saying there is APG-83 with GaN, or is this just hot air?

 

[dadeechi]

If the US wants a strategic cooperation with India, then selecting F-16 or not is not a make/break decision.
A Gripen sale will result in a lot of business for US companies as well.

The F-16 Block 70/72 has GaAs based APG-83.
Grumman, the manufacturer of APG-83 does have GaN technology in G/ATOR,
but that does not mean they will upgrade the APG-83 to GaN without a commitment for large orders.

Do You have any sources saying there is APG-83 with GaN, or is this just hot air?

India would be ordering 200+ F16s. The specs are still being negotiated.

 

[GURU DUTT]

India would be ordering 200+ F16s. The specs are still being negotiated.

imagine a force of half a dozen squad of Blk 70/72 F16 on our western flank supported by a dozen squad of jags , funkrums and bisons and M2Ks while a couple of dozen squads of Rafale &MKI gaurding north eastern flanks i wonder who will dare to attack india then

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

India would be ordering 200+ F16s. The specs are still being negotiated.

That assumes that Grumman is prepared to design an upgraded radar for this deal.
Their choice is to recoup investment in the current APG-83, or develop a new product that would cannibalize
the APG-83 business. Not an obvious decision.

 

[Blue Marlin]

That assumes that Grumman is prepared to design an upgraded radar for this deal.
Their choice is to recoup investment in the current APG-83, or develop a new product that would cannibalize
the APG-83 business. Not an obvious decision.

they will go for the apg-83, no need to develop something to replace something thats already in the same class of whats being developed.

 

[dadeechi]

That assumes that Grumman is prepared to design an upgraded radar for this deal.
Their choice is to recoup investment in the current APG-83, or develop a new product that would cannibalize
the APG-83 business. Not an obvious decision.

they will go for the apg-83, no need to develop something to replace something thats already in the same class of whats being developed.

May be... But recouping Northrop Grumman's investment is not India's problem.

India never hesitated customizations where it had requirements or made sense.

Also, how are you so sure that NG would not offer a GaN based option to India and why India would not ask for such an option?

NG itself recently proposed and building GaN based G/ATOR systems for US Marine Corps.

A huge Indian order is where NG could easily piggy back and upgrade APG-83 to a GaN based system.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

May be... But recouping Northrop Grumman's investment is not India's problem.

India never hesitated customizations where it had requirements or made sense.

Also, how are you so sure that NG would not offer a GaN based option to India and why India would not ask for such an option?

NG itself recently proposed and building GaN based G/ATOR systems for US Marine Corps.

A huge Indian order is where NG could easily piggy back and upgrade APG-83 to a GaN based system.

I did not say I am sure.
What I am saying is that NG will do a Return on Investment calculation,
and then analyze what will happen if they invest the same resources elsewhere.
A GaN radar for F-16 will only be designed if the ROI meets their expectations.
If not, then there will not be a GaN radar for F-16, and that is Indias problem.
If they do not do anything, then India will buy GaAs APG-83 from them.
Any ROI calculation will have to motivate by INCREASED business.
Only the extra revenue/profit from GaN over the GaAs count.

If their resources for building fighter radars allows them to do one radar, then a GaN radar
for F-35 might be more attractive.

they will go for the apg-83, no need to develop something to replace something thats already in the same class of whats being developed.

GaN based radars are vastly superior to GaAs based radars, so no...

 

[dadeechi]

I did not say I am sure.
What I am saying is that NG will do a Return on Investment calculation,
and then analyze what will happen if they invest the same resources elsewhere.
A GaN radar for F-16 will only be designed if the ROI meets their expectations.
If not, then there will not be a GaN radar for F-16, and that is Indias problem.
If they do not do anything, then India will buy GaAs APG-83 from them.
Any ROI calculation will have to motivate by INCREASED business.
Only the extra revenue/profit from GaN over the GaAs count.

If their resources for building fighter radars allows them to do one radar, then a GaN radar
for F-35 might be more attractive.

I agree but my limited point is, NM developed the APG-83 for F-16 in less than a year when they got the upgrade contract for 142 F-16s of Taiwanese Air force. They were able to implement in such a short time as they already had experience and commonality of hardware and software features with the F-22's APG-77 and F-35's APG-81 radars.

Now why do you think NM would have to choose between GaN for F-35s and GaN for F-16s?

A GaN based radar for Indian F-16s would pave the way for GaN based Radar for F-35s and vice-versa.

Hence, the ROI would be based on the cumulative of all those orders.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I agree but my limited point is, NM developed the APG-83 for F-16 in less than a year when they got the upgrade contract for 142 F-16s of Taiwanese Air force. They were able to implement in such a short time as they already had experience and commonality of hardware and software features with the F-22's APG-77 and F-35's APG-81 radars.

Now why do you think NM would have to choose between GaN for F-35s and GaN for F-16s?

A GaN based radar for Indian F-16s would pave the way for GaN based Radar for F-35s and vice-versa.

Hence, the ROI would be based on the cumulative of all those orders.

I have no clue about what resources NG can put into such a project. Just describe how US companies think.
Designing a radar based on an existing one is much easier than developing a new one based
on technologies where little experience is available.
A lot of things can go wrong.

If the main advantage of the F-16 is availability, then delaying the project to get a new radar is defeating the purpose...

 

[Blue Marlin]

I did not say I am sure.
What I am saying is that NG will do a Return on Investment calculation,
and then analyze what will happen if they invest the same resources elsewhere.
A GaN radar for F-16 will only be designed if the ROI meets their expectations.
If not, then there will not be a GaN radar for F-16, and that is Indias problem.
If they do not do anything, then India will buy GaAs APG-83 from them.
Any ROI calculation will have to motivate by INCREASED business.
Only the extra revenue/profit from GaN over the GaAs count.

If their resources for building fighter radars allows them to do one radar, then a GaN radar
for F-35 might be more attractive.



GaN based radars are vastly superior to GaAs based radars, so no...

so you think ng will go through all that hassle to develop a new aesa for india. but if india is paying for it......... then why not. but i doubt it.

 

[#hydra#]

I agree but my limited point is, NM developed the APG-83 for F-16 in less than a year when they got the upgrade contract for 142 F-16s of Taiwanese Air force. They were able to implement in such a short time as they already had experience and commonality of hardware and software features with the F-22's APG-77 and F-35's APG-81 radars.

Now why do you think NM would have to choose between GaN for F-35s and GaN for F-16s?

A GaN based radar for Indian F-16s would pave the way for GaN based Radar for F-35s and vice-versa.

Hence, the ROI would be based on the cumulative of all those orders.

Northrop Grumman, most finest tech giant in defence industry, they designed b2spirit in 1980s...

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

so you think ng will go through all that hassle to develop a new aesa for india. but if india is paying for it......... then why not. but i doubt it.

I believe that NG will invest in GaN based fighter radars,
since if they want to remain in radar business, this is the way forward.
They will only design a GaN fighter radar for the F-16 if the ROI calculation meets their requirements.
When they do the ROI calculation, they will deduct what they make if they sell the GaAs based radar,
because they will lose that business.
They also have to compare with ROI if they sell the current APG-83 and develop something else.
What the end result of such calculations is remains to be seen.

Is India prepared to pay the extra cost NG will have to demand for the ROI calculation to work out.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I believe that NG will invest in GaN based fighter radars,
since if they want to remain in radar business, this is the way forward.
They will only design a GaN fighter radar for the F-16 if the ROI calculation meets their requirements.
When they do the ROI calculation, they will deduct what they make if they sell the GaAs based radar,
because they will lose that business.
They also have to compare with ROI if they sell the current APG-83 and develop something else.
What the end result of such calculations is remains to be seen.

Is India prepared to pay the extra cost NG will have to demand for the ROI calculation to work out.

for india.