Lockheed Martin may sell fifth generation F-35 to India

[Logan]

yes i also think we should buy su35 as compare to su30

su-35 was developed by russians after looking at the su 30 mki's success

"The Sukhoi Su-35 (formerly Su-27M;[6] NATO reporting name: Flanker-E) is a Russian 4+ generation heavy class, long-range, multi-role fighter. Due to the similar features and components it contains, the Sukhoi Su-35 is considered to be a close cousin of the Sukhoi Su-30MKI, a specialized version of the Su-30 for India."

 

[jagjitnatt]

Why can't we buy su 35 in place of rest of the su 30 mki?

there is barely any difference between the two. The MKI uses western equipment and is considered better in various departments.
With the AESA radar in 2012, MKI would beat Su35 anyday.

 

[sivadreams]

I still doubt if we should go for this platform. I do agree this is going to be state of the art platform than anything in its class for sometime till we see the MCA and Russian version of MIG-35

Why we should not be going for American platforms ...

1. Pakistan irrespective of they could afford it now will at some point in future will be able to afford and US will be pressed to sell it to Pak due to keep its client list alive and to deny and delay China the market as much as possible.

2. Even though the above point is not going to materialize in next 10-15yrs, but Turkey can share the platform in the name of leasing or some kind with obviously an approval from US. This may at least be in terms of understand the strength / weakness of these platforms which will jeopardize Indian position.

Looking at the above to situation, i would still suggest we should not opt for US platform for until we are sure Pak is completely denied US hardware and are fully dependent on China.

China and Pakistan is not going to cool its tempers with India in South Asia and also into Indian Ocean. So china will try and help Pakistan to match platform to platform with India and keep India been looked at using the Pak Prism.

This is a very complex situation where India have to balance itself with US to counter China and also keep Russia in the room so that it can negotiate better with US and also rely on Russia as a reliable partner.

 

[sancho]

Why can't we buy su 35 in place of rest of the su 30 mki?

Because it is a single seater, but under IAF doctrine the main air superiority fighter needs to be a twin seater (MKI/FGFA). Russian AF has Su35 and 34 for 2 different roles, the MKI is geared to fit between both and to serve both roles.

su-35 was developed by russians after looking at the su 30 mki's success

No, the Su 35 and the Su 37 was developed before and our MKI gets techs from them (Bars PESA radar, derivate of the TVC engine, canards...), some reports say that the Su35 was offered in that time for IAF too (an early version, not the actual BM of course), but as I mentioned above IAF needs twin seat fighters. That's why the we get the twin seat Su 30 MK and upgraded it with those techs, to get a combined version with latest techs and designs, perfectly suited for our needs.

there is barely any difference between the two. The MKI uses western equipment and is considered better in various departments.
With the AESA radar in 2012, MKI would beat Su35 anyday.

Doubtful, because although they look similar in weapons, payload and range, the Su35 BM has clear advantages in A2A!
It is designed mainly for A2A with clearly less weight than the MKI (that it also a reason why they didn't use canards like they did at the early versions anymore), lower RCS and other improvements. The radar for example is an improved PESA version of our Bars radar and it already uses S117 engine with 3D TVC, which proved SC capabilities.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Doubtful, because although they look similar in weapons, payload and range, the Su35 BM has clear advantages in A2A!
It is designed mainly for A2A with clearly less weight than the MKI (that it also a reason why they didn't use canards like they did at the early versions anymore), lower RCS and other improvements. The radar for example is an improved PESA version of our Bars radar and it already uses S117 engine with 3D TVC, which proved SC capabilities.

Yaar, Su35 and Su30MKI have almost the same weight( little difference) because of the same airframe(just a few composites here and there). Instead the canards of MKI give it superior horizontal stability and allows to it fly at slower speeds stably and allows more maneuverability. So in A2A an MKI with AESA is WAY better than Su35, cause the missile are the same.
Also its supercruise abilities are unknown, and personally I don't think the airframe would allow that. The only positive are its lower rcs and more thrust.

 

[sancho]

Yaar, Su35 and Su30MKI have almost the same weight( little difference) because of the same airframe(just a few composites here and there).

No mate, it could be more than 1t more! Twin seat instead of single seat, which means strenghtend airframe and canards should weigh several hundreds Kg, that alson will be a clear weight difference and than you have to add more composites and stuff.

Instead the canards of MKI give it superior horizontal stability and allows to it fly at slower speeds stably and allows more maneuverability.

Canards and 2D TVC will help MKI to counter the higher weight and make it more maneuverable than the comparable Su 30MKKs, but the Su35 has the better t/w ratio and 3D TVC.

So in A2A an MKI with AESA is WAY better than Su35, cause the missile are the same.

If Bars can be improved to AESA, why don't you expect the Irbis radar to get the same improvement? Also Pak Fa radar will be a derivate of the Irbis AESA right?

Also its supercruise abilities are unknown, and personally I don't think the airframe would allow that. The only positive are its lower rcs and more thrust.

There are reports about Su35 that proves SC and even related to the Pak Fa first flight this was stated several times, because it uses the Su35BM engine at the moment.
Again mate, more improved radar, less RCS, less weight, higher thrust and 3D TVC, all capabilities to give better A2A performance than the MKI. Only western avionics will give advantages to MKI, but the generall performance will be inferior.

 

[Trichy]

If Russia ever was uncomfortable with the situation, MRCA would not have happened and we would be buying the Mig35 straight away

There was an IF. So I didn't mean we will buy mig 35.

IAF first Proposed to buy directly the Mirage-2000 but France phrased out and introduce the Rafael, IAF never interested in MiG-35

 

[sancho]

THE massive Joint Strike Fighter project is going to be delayed and cost more, the US Deputy Secretary of Defence Bill Lynn says.

But Mr Lynn could not say by how much the cost overruns and delays would increase the price tag for the Australian government, which in November committed $3 billion to buy an initial batch of 14 yet-to-be-completed F-35 warplanes. Australia plans eventually to purchase 100 of the fifth-generation stealth warplanes at a cost of about $16 billion.

“The development was originally projected to last an additional 30 months, we think with the additional test aircraft it will be closer to a delay of about 12 or 13 months but I can't give you the cost numbers,” Mr Lynn said today during the official opening of a $300 million shipbuilding precinct in South Australia.

Earlier this month Defence Minister John Faulkner said he hoped a restructuring of the JSF program would “stabilise its schedule and cost”.

Mr Lynn said the Obama administration wanted to get the project right.

“When we looked at it as we came into office last year, we thought that some of the costs were underestimated in terms of production, and we thought that development was going to last longer than was originally projected,” Mr Lynn said.

“We have now recosted the production to, we think, a better estimate, and we have taken the development and tried to strengthen it with some additional test aircraft so that we can get it closer to the original schedule.

“We think with those steps it will continue on its path to be the backbone of tactical aviation for both the United States and hopefully Australia.

“The development was definitely going to cost more and the unit costs have gone up. But the important thing was to get it right and budget it right, and that is what we have done.”

So F35 will cost something between $160 and even over $200 million each, depending on numbers!