Local manufactures to introduce cheap electric bikes in Pakistan

[Quwa]

This is only a success if they can source everything locally from electric motors to batteries.
No no "assemblers" they are useless, we need local tech.

Agreed.

 

[Paul2]

actually electric bikes are much easier than making a patrol engine. Besides, they are not making anything just using foreign parts and assembling it just like with patrol engine so you should not have any issue in this case they will be making double the profits than Patrol bikes. In Canada you can buy a cheap electric bike for under a 1000 dollars

I lived and worked in Canada for a while. On my last place of work, the business owner wanted to make a side business out of electric bikes.

To make logistics cheaper (importing assembled bikes in bulky crates is many times more expensive than importing them in kits,) he wanted to assemble them locally, or in US. A very simple job of making 4 easy welds, wiring the BMS board with 4 other components, inserting steering column, and wheels.

This looked easy at the start, but, the moment we started hiring assembly line workers, hell broke out...

People we hired had hard time simply plugging 4 sets of wires right, in correct order, despite them all being colour coded, and with mechanical keys to prevent incorrect wiring... Only when we started hiring people with engineering education (!!!!) we stopped running into troubles, but those were slow. We also tried to make out own BMS because standalone one were kinda expensive, again, we had hard time finding anybody to operate an SMT mounter. The only guy we found asked for $86k+ a year, and was unable to do a test task I gave him in 2 hours.

For all of that stuff, I can easily hire highschoolers in China, and they would've done the job better

In the end we wrapped up the project.

actually electric bikes are much easier than making a patrol engine. Besides, they are not making anything just using foreign parts and assembling it just like with patrol engine so you should not have any issue in this case they will be making double the profits than Patrol bikes. In Canada you can buy a cheap electric bike for under a 1000 dollars

BLDC motors are easy to manufacture because stator winding can be automated, but you need very expensive magnets. BLDC are also very easy to control, and can be powered directly from the battery.

Induction motors are labour intensive because you need to manually place windings, but material costs are MUCH smaller because they don't need magnets. Big problem with induction motors on small EVs and bikes is that they can't be powered directly from the battery — you need a lot of electronics to power them from battery.

Switched reluctance motors are very cheap, and easy to make, but they have very low power for their weight. This is what super cheap electric lorries use in China.

 

[xyxmt]

People we hired had hard time simply plugging 4 sets of wires right, in correct order, despite them all being colour coded, and with mechanical keys to prevent incorrect wiring... Only when we started hiring people with engineering education (!!!!) we stopped running into troubles, but those were slow. We also tried to make out own BMS because standalone one were kinda expensive, again, we hard hard time finding anybody to operate an SMT mounter. The only guy we found asked for $86k+ a year, and was unable to do a test task I gave him in 2 hours.

For all of that stuff, I can easily hire highschoolers in China, and they would've done the job better

In the end we wrapped up the project.

I did a lot of computer/lan/wan device assembly and upgrade and never seen a wiring that cold be plugged the wrong way, those wires can only be plugged the right way that even a monkey can do

 

[Paul2]

Surprisingly we are manufacturing and exporting world class coper wires and also exporting basic electrical goods such as fans, washing machines water pupms etc ...

That was also a very big surprise to me when I visited Pakistan. I met few engineers from Orient Electronics on the plane to Islamabad. They import some parts from Midea plant in Shunde, otherwise I was surprised how much they were able to source from Pakistan.

Biggest surprise I got was that Pakistan also had a backend fab in late eighties for RF chips, and there were plans for a frontend fab. This is what my mom told me who went to work in Pakistan in late eighties. What I understood from openly available info, all of that went nowhere once "major changes" started in nineties, and both plants were left to rot.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

That was also a very big surprise to me when I visited Pakistan. I met few engineers from Orient Electronics on the plane to Islamabad. They import some parts from Midea parts from Shunde, otherwise I was surprised how much they were able to source from Pakistan.

Biggest surprise I got was that Pakistan also had a backend fab in late eighties for RF chips, and there were plans for a frontend fab. This is what my mom told me who went to work in Pakistan in late eighties. What I understood from openly available info, all of that went nowhere once "major changes" started in nineties, and both plants were left to rot.

Nationalization of all corporates took place in early 70's which decimated the whole industrial complex.

 

[Paul2]

I did a lot of computer/lan/wan device assembly and upgrade and never seen a wiring that cold be plugged the wrong way, those wires can only be plugged the right way that even a monkey can do

Yes, one needs to be extremely alternatively gifted to do that. There were 3 Anderson connectors of slightly different sizes. If one really wants it hard, he can force a smaller connector into a bigger one, and then you hear a loud pop and think how much gear the guy destroyed, and how many days of medical leave he will take.

And I clearly told them to "always plug battery last." If such troglodytes want $40k+ a year, no wonder manufacturing is going downhill in America.

 

[The Accountant]

That was also a very big surprise to me when I visited Pakistan. I met few engineers from Orient Electronics on the plane to Islamabad. They import some parts from Midea parts from Shunde, otherwise I was surprised how much they were able to source from Pakistan.

Biggest surprise I got was that Pakistan also had a backend fab in late eighties for RF chips, and there were plans for a frontend fab. This is what my mom told me who went to work in Pakistan in late eighties. What I understood from openly available info, all of that went nowhere once "major changes" started in nineties, and both plants were left to rot.

To your surprise in 80s we were also manufacturing big commercial ships for China ... we were industrially an advance industrial country even till 80s ... we were manufacturing infact exporting diesel engines and aircraft engine parts under the brand name of BECO ...

All of that industrial growth start decaying after nationalization

 

[Verve]

BLDC motors manufacturing is the easy part, it's the controller where we severely lack expertise.

 

[Paul2]

BLDC motors manufacturing is the easy part, it's the controller where we severely lack expertise.

Well, BLDC is not always the best option, but is the cheapest if you power things from a small battery.

Why? Brushed motors need no electronics, but they loose to BLDC on all parameters, with the biggest flaw being the reliability of commutator-brush contact. And you will still need electronics to regulate power delivery unless you use huge rheostat.

Any AC motor will need much more electronics to be driven from DC. And cost of that electronics will be more than savings from not using expensive magnets. Moreover, efficiency of that piece of electronics — the inverter, can vary a lot depending on mass and cost.

Electronics for BLDC is the simplest one in comparison to electronics for every other type of electronically controlled motor, and, more importantly, the cheapest.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Nationalization of all corporates took place in early 70's which decimated the whole industrial complex.

Not so much the industrial complex, that was in its infancy back then just as it is now. Rather, nationalization killed any incentive on the part of private investors to take on risky, technology-driven ventures ever again. It now runs in the blood basically to avoid such projects, and more of then than not, the reluctance proves to be the correct choice (due to the incompetence of Pakistani policymakers, bureaucrats, foreign relations, trade relations, etc).

To properly reverse what happened in the 1970s, the Pak Gov't would probably have to give grants to the tune of billions of dollars to anyone wanting to set-up an industrial venture. So, should someone want to try fabtech, then give them the funding and 0-10% government ownership.

 

[Paul2]

Not so much the industrial complex, that was in its infancy back then just as it is now. Rather, nationalization killed any incentive on the part of private investors to take on risky, technology-driven ventures ever again. It now runs in the blood basically to avoid such projects, and more of then than not, the reluctance proves to be the correct choice (due to the incompetence of Pakistani policymakers, bureaucrats, foreign relations, trade relations, etc).

Had a such a long day now. Had a quite story today which I will write about later, had to write a report to police on one drunk local.

I think this is a very, very powerful negative factor. We had the same in China too. A lot of people internalised that "doing things properly is not worth it" during the plan economy era. Over the time that turned into a big portion of population becoming more adept at doing thing wrongly than doing things right, even when they had no natural need to do that.

Economic planners over and under-reported things when they have zero need to do so; talented people and exemplary scholars still opting to get jobs with nepotism and bribes; politicians that knew better of running drama queen shows than doing actual administration, even when given most boring and simple tasks; first generation of "Professional" company bosses who were more adept at doing credit fraud that actually running companies, even ones with very successful businesses; mayors making hundredths of millions on land sales, but still taking bribes to sell plots illegally; factory workers who better knew how to assemble fridges incorrectly, than do it right, and with less efforts...

It took a harsh, and ruthless decade of nineties, where everybody had to pay dearly for their own crew-ups, to right that wrong.

I'm seeing the same thing in many 2nd world countries around the world now, and don't get me wrong, Pakistan too.

When I was there with a water treatment company, a minor official of Punjab government we met at an industry expo told us he doesn't actually knows what paperwork is needed for running such a business, but was quick to refer us to "lawyers/fixers" "who knew how to do it." And that, when what on his badge suggested was that he was in charge of water works in some district.

Having same issues with a Kazakhstani client now. We work with a detachment of their head conglomerate, who are allegedly staffed with their "best and brightest," including the boss. Their are intentionally given a full freedom of action to get out of "administrative gridlock." Their boss has an American diploma and few years of work experience overseas, but he still behaves like the complete Brezhnevist bureaucrat out there.

The guy has an option to finish the project in a month, but he keeps the project going to get his discretionary expenses going, and produce the most amount of "imitation of work" like writing useless case studies, having 10 meetings per day, and penny pinching the project on our side. All because he does not believe that he or his team can do humanly do it. To him, a project in microelectronics looks so otherworldly, and superhuman that he doesn't even try. In reality, such project would've been a joke if one did it in China and had such a capable team.

If there would be a single higher up official, my advice to them would be "have resolve, let broken things break, otherwise you will never have well working things take their place"