LOC: The downside of Pak Army BAT actions by Lt.Gen Syed Ata Hasnain.

[Armstrong]

You guys don't call it BAT, that's the term and acronym which we use for small groups of PA regulars which are mandated to take offensive action against border patrols.

I got that bit when I first heard it !

Nothing like that, according to them its usually cross-firing & then counter-attacks by one side on the other at an individual post level - Nothing half as melodramatic as the one asserted !

 

[RazPaK]

So @Xeric @TaimiKhan what the heck are these elusive BATs ? I've talked to around 11 Pakistani Army Officers that I know from a Cadet at Kakul on one hand to an ex-Lt.General on the other - All of them look at me as if I'm making it all up !

Why are you asking them?

Ask the Indians that know about our military more than our own soldiers.

I'm still laughing at SSG Baluch regiment 101 Mujahid Force Recon brigade as per our Indian friend's media.

 

[Dillinger]

I got that bit when I first heard it !

Nothing like that, according to them its usually cross-firing & then counter-attacks by one side on the other at an individual post level - Nothing half as melodramatic as the one asserted !

Oh bhai, we are referring to post level aggression only. Or do you see the Ata speak of brigade sized maneuvers when he talks of BATs.

 

[Marshmallow]

what is BAT here?

 

[Armstrong]

Oh bhai, we are referring to post level aggression only. Or do you see the Ata speak of brigade sized maneuvers when he talks of BATs.

I was referring to the talk of a Jihhhaddii+Pakistani Regulars+Pakistani Special Forces in a Band of Brother-esque thing !

The responses I've had in most of my conversations usually highlight one thing - an overzealous jawan on either side who takes a pot shot at the opposing team when an opportunity presents itself which in turns leads to cross firing & if there are casualties then raids & possibly even mortar & artillery because then tempers are flaring !

what is BAT here?

Bablu Asim aur Teddy !

 

[Dillinger]

I was referring to the talk of a Jihhhaddii+Pakistani Regulars+Pakistani Special Forces in a Band of Brother-esque thing !

The responses I've had in most of my conversations usually highlight one thing - an overzealous jawan on either side who takes a pot shot at the opposing team when an opportunity presents itself which in turns leads to cross firing & if there are casualties then raids & possibly even mortar & artillery because then tempers are flaring !

Well obviously you deny that PA regulars operate alongside jihadis and fidayeen, why in any god's name would you ever accept that, would defeat the purpose of nursing proxies.

 

[Armstrong]

Well obviously you deny that PA regulars operate alongside jihadis and fidayeen, why in any god's name would you ever accept that, would defeat the purpose of nursing proxies.

In private conversations !

 

[Dillinger]

In private conversations !

You expect them to tell you where the launch points lie and how they gather troop rotation intel for the irregulars in any sort of conversation? I might as well go and ask the officers here to tell me where the next LOROS is going up in a private conversation.

 

[Marshmallow]

I was referring to the talk of a Jihhhaddii+Pakistani Regulars+Pakistani Special Forces in a Band of Brother-esque thing !

The responses I've had in most of my conversations usually highlight one thing - an overzealous jawan on either side who takes a pot shot at the opposing team when an opportunity presents itself which in turns leads to cross firing & if there are casualties then raids & possibly even mortar & artillery because then tempers are flaring !



Bablu Asim aur Teddy !

haha or Ben stiller Al Pacino n Tobey Maguire

 

[Armstrong]

You expect them to tell you where the launch points lie and how they gather troop rotation intel for the irregulars in any sort of conversation? I might as well go and ask the officers here to tell me where the next LOROS is going up in a private conversation.

Where did I say or even imply that ? I simply asked them if there was something like that - They replied that no...nothing of the sort its usually sensationalist journalism & innovative terminologies that end up making a routine cross fire, its causes & later repercussions metamorph into something as melodramatic as that especially if some strategic gain can be extracted from it !

 

[bandit]

I remember hearing its max of a 3 month period..

In areas like siachen its 6 months, due to.acclimatization period.

 

[Dillinger]

Where did I say or even imply that ? I simply asked them if there was something like that - They replied that no...nothing of the sort its usually sensationalist journalism & innovative terminologies that end up making a routine cross fire, its causes & later repercussions metamorph into something as melodramatic as that especially if some strategic gain can be extracted from it viz a vie showing Pakistan in a worse-off light or pegging terrorism & outside support to the Kashmir Movement !

Well considering that you own "ally" has happily published detailed and researched papers out of West Point proving that the LeT is composed of Punjabis (upto a quantum translating to 95% of cadre), there is very little we need to do on that front.

Unless the fidayeen currently dying in Keran and Shala Bhata dropped down from orbit straight on the LC its highly improbable that we are incorrect.

 

[illusion8]

Where did I say or even imply that ? I simply asked them if there was something like that - They replied that no...nothing of the sort its usually sensationalist journalism & innovative terminologies that end up making a routine cross fire, its causes & later repercussions metamorph into something as melodramatic as that especially if some strategic gain can be extracted from it !

You should have got the hint when PA regulars were fighting alongside Taliban/ Mujahadeen cadres in Afghanistan against the Soviets - if you deny such a scenario then it's hard for you to imagine that PA coordinates with LET/ HUm regulars to enter Indian LOC frontiers.

 

[Armstrong]

Well considering that you own "ally" has happily published detailed and researched papers out of West Point proving that the LeT is composed of Punjabis (upto a quantum translating to 95% of cadre), there is very little we need to do on that front.

Every single one of those detailed researched papers are based on biographical accounts extracted from 4 propaganda pieces published by the LeT itself, namely - We the Mothers of Lashkar-e-Taiba by Umm-e-Hammad, Journal of the Virtuous Women, Journal for the Call to Islam & Monthly Strike of the Righteous !

Every statistical quantum is calculated using these propaganda pieces without even verifying them never mind actually raising the possibility of determining the veracity of this 'information' when it is coming from 4 Propaganda Pieces ! Veracity which is as much as the one established by the TTP's manual & literature decrying the human rights violations done against them by our army !

At any rate the imbecility of separating Kashmiri from Punjabi without even understanding the meaning of either of those two terms is astounding !

I can't imagine how does a Statisticians piece becomes 'evidence' for something that isn't even conjecture but 4 voluminous propaganda pieces !

Unless the fidayeen currently dying in Keran and Shala Bhata dropped down from orbit straight on the LC its highly improbable that we are incorrect.

That doesn't do anything to establishing a correlation between a supposed BAT with its alleged elements & militants allegedly being cornered up by Indian Armed Forces in those two areas who may or may not have crossed the LOC !

You should have got the hint when PA regulars were fighting alongside Taliban/ Mujahadeen cadres in Afghanistan against the Soviets - if you deny such a scenario then it's hard for you to imagine that PA coordinates with LET/ HUm regulars to enter Indian LOC frontiers.

That 'conjecture' doesn't establish anything more than ability an ability that your army has had in '71 as well !

 

[Dillinger]

Every single one of those detailed researched papers are based on biographical accounts extracted from 4 propaganda pieces published by the LeT itself, namely - We the Mothers of Lashkar-e-Taiba by Umm-e-Hammad, Journal of the Virtuous Women, Journal for the Call to Islam & Monthly Strike of the Righteous !

Every statistical quantum is calculated using these propaganda pieces without even verifying them never mind actually raising the possibility of determining the veracity of this 'information' when it is coming from 4 Propaganda Pieces ! Veracity which is as much as the one established by the TTP's manual & literature decrying the human rights violations done against them by our army !

At any rate the imbecility of separating Kashmiri from Punjabi without even understanding the meaning of either of those two terms is astounding !

I can't imagine how does a Statisticians piece becomes 'evidence' for something that isn't even conjecture but 4 voluminous propaganda pieces !



That doesn't do anything to establishing a correlation between a supposed BAT with its alleged elements & militants allegedly being cornered up by Indian Armed Forces in those two areas who may or may not have crossed the LOC !

Indeed and we are to take Pakistan's word over the LeT propaganda, lets not kid ourselves. The happenings of the past 3-4 years, from OBL to insider info being provided to the TTP has already proven the links that exist. Now if one wants proof that will suffice in a court of law, that's a different issue.

What do you think the BAT is, PA regulars rubbing shoulders with irregulars? Whenever an infil attempt happens the PA regulars limit themselves to providing overwatch for the ingressing party. Again, the purpose of articles like the above is not to get the other side to admit to their complicity but to inform the folks over here. The only dullards engaged in such attempts to draw out "admissions of guilt" are the likes of arnab goswami. The article established a correlation based on our operational experience, the opposition will obviously deny it, the agenda is not to prove anything as much as to state what our soldiers have observed.