Let's not be in fool's paradise: India can't condemn Israel

[Hulk]

I support Israel. The people who are firing rockets at civilians are enemies of peace and need to be dealt strongly.

 

[Solomon2]

Arafat is made to look like a champion of peace here in India.

Ah, that's it. I'll explain. Arafat was a very clever man. There were several different groups committing terror in the name of the Palestinians. Some of these attacked foreign - by that I mean non-Israeli - citizens. With Soviet and Egyptian assistance (discovered by the Israelis when they captured his Lebanese headquarters in the 1980s) Arafat's PLO had informers in these groups who were instrumental in getting foreign hostages back and even undermining other more murderous leaders, like Abu Nidal. Many diplomats thus had an automatic incentive to play up Arafat and put down the others. That's how Arafat came to be seen as "a man of peace."

By the way, Arafat played the Attack Foreigners game himself. To "distance" himself and pretend he wasn't involved, the organization had a different name: Black September.

Many of us Indians dont give a hoot about Palestine or its cause. As a nation, we are too weak, to take a moral stand and support Israel right to defend itself. Instead we provide lip service to Arafat to please Muslim states, all the while this very muslim states have never supported us on Kashmir.

From my point of view, it is this lack of "a moral stand" that makes you weak.

Why, we have already forgotten the dead of Mumbai massacre and Mumbai serial blasts. What more can you expect from us ... A state without courage.

There was a reason the Brits classed Punjabis as a "martial" race and didn't recruit much from the south. Nevertheless, you can take heart by establishing a firm moral stand, basing it in truth.

 

[Sashan]

Why should India condemn Israel? Both have been victims of terrorism. In fact, many Indians look at Israel and draw a parallel of various incidents such as below and wonder why can't India take a leaf out of Israel's book.

Munich - 26/11
Entebbe - Kandahar
Eichmann - Dawood

 

[Bang Galore]

From my point of view, it is this lack of "a moral stand" that makes you weak.

For that, you need to understand a bit of Hinduism. There are no clear black & white positions in it. The "good" are never all good nor are the "bad" all bad. Most people therefore see things primarily in the grey. It is why, no matter how liked Israel is (and it is very liked), Indians will never be comfortable supporting what is done to the Palestinians, blindly. Regardless of what some Indians may feel about Pakistanis/Muslims, it will never, almost never, translate to complete approval of Israel's actions, especially when the images of children being killed(even if completely unintentional) flood our living rooms. This is not to suggest that the Palestinians are deemed to be in the right(Hamas is the guilty party, in this case), just that support for Israel is nuanced and not absolute.

 

[Solomon2]

For that, you need to understand a bit of Hinduism. There are no clear black & white positions in it. The "good" are never all good nor are the "bad" all bad. Most people therefore see things primarily in the grey. It is why, no matter how liked Israel is (and it is very liked), Indians will never be comfortable supporting what is done to the Palestinians, blindly.

Is this willful or assumed blindness or a constructive approach? It looks like I must study Hinduism more closely.

 

[JayAtl]

First off, much of the contact in the article is ridiculous incorrect
.
Jerusalem, not Tel-Aviv, is the capital of the Jewish nation. This is where anyone who supports Israel stops taking such an article seriously.

People like to complicate things and diplomatically correct phrasing but the situation is quite simple:
Israel is fighting 2 terrorist orginizations. 1st is the honest terrorist orginization, Hamas, and the 2nd is PLO which glorifies terrorism and perpetuates the Arab hatred for Israel(These are the "peaceful" Arabs). One is in an armed war with Israel and the other is in a political war with Israel.

India supporting either of them is equivalent to Israel supporting LeT, LeJ or the Maoist terrorists.

Let there be no doubt that supporting the enemies of Israel politcally or verbally encourages them and gives them legitamacy to continue their terrorism.

Ptex this is a fundamentally wrong assumption on your part. Let LEJ or Maoist don't have a legitimate claim to any land. Palestine state in the two state solution is a legitimate recognized claim by the entire world. So India can support that not unlike the US and everyone does. But does not support any terror acts nor does it support Hamas. see India's own non violent struggle to rid itself of the British. They oppose terror as means of getting a dispute solved.

I would advice you guys not to shove this meme down the Indians throat. They are wholeheartedly on your side on the issue that matters.

 

[INDIC]

Why do you focus on one person to judge the merits of the cause he or she espouses? And what do you know about Arafat? Do you learn that he was one of the most crafty and deceitful persons in the twentieth century, or is he portrayed as some sort of hero, or both?

People only know him as a Palestinian President with a tag of Nobel Peace Prize. Israel-Palestine issue has never been given so much importance in Indian media. Many people have no idea about violent activities of PLO although many Indians don't keep good views about Arabs.

 

[KS]

New Delhi can not really openly make a one-sided statement like 'Israel should stop killing innocent children and women' no matter how much pressure is created from below.

There is NO pressure from below. Most Indians who are aware of the issue support Israel.


+ To credit the writer of this piece, he has taken very elaborate precautions to try mask his idealogical inclinations (that of a leftist, anti-imperialist) and appear pragmatic. Alas, on careful reading one could easily see through it.

 

[KS]

If I murdered someone in my distant past and I confess I did so to you, convincing you that I'm no longer a criminal and no threat to society, would you be willing to grant me forgiveness?

Look Solomon, I support Israel not because I think they are God's own children and they are right. What they do in Middle East - right or wrong - is none of my business, but because the Israelis have proved to be valuable partners and even friends who helped us in times of need. Its not in our culture to forget friends. But if you think that Israel has a god given right to demand support from other countries and that not supporting Israel is a crime, you can take that attitude elsewhere to some one who actually gives a damn.

 

[KS]

Entebbe - Kandahar

This is not a valid comparison.

Is this willful or assumed blindness or a constructive approach? It looks like I must study Hinduism more closely.

It's the truth. There is NO absolute evil and NO absolute good.

That's why even our Gods have done mistakes.

 

[Fireurimagination]

India will naturally look after it's interests and thus will look to balance it's relations with both Israel and Arabs and I believe that is the way to go as both parties have legitimate issues and grievances, yes but supporting Hamas and Islamic terror or huge civilian casualties on Palestinian side is out of question

 

[Solomon2]

if you think that Israel has a god given right to demand support from other countries and that not supporting Israel is a crime, you can take that attitude elsewhere to some one who actually gives a damn.

Interesting, but my point is that not supporting Israel encourages terrorism and criminal activity in India itself. It's because the values one needs to assert to support Israel are also those required to battle terrorism and criminality, while support of a Palestinian cause founded on lies and executed by terror encourages terror and criminality at home. If India could come out and flatly assert that the Palestinians are in the wrong and should be grateful to the world and the Zionists for receiving outstanding mercy it might go a long way towards solving both Israel's and India's problems.

 

[vsdoc]

Solomon I believe Israel has the right to exist and that its the circle of life and divine justice that you came back to the promised land.

By the grace of Ahura Mazda, Zoroastrianism will return to Iran and reclaim its right one day too.

I do not of course like to see kids being killed on either side. I flip the channel.

The media seriously lacks class these days.

 

[KS]

Interesting, but my point is that not supporting Israel encourages terrorism and criminal activity in India itself.

No it doesnt. There is no correlation.

The Palestinian demand for a state is not wrong . But the methods they use to get it are wrong and the way some of them define the 'state' is wrong. Period. While I can condemn the methods, and I do, I would not condemn their demand for a state if it will also guarentee the existence of the Jewish nation.

As we believe, there is no absolute good and no absolute bad. That seeing in black-white is an Abrahamic (all three) phenomenon.

 

[Solomon2]

No it doesnt. There is no correlation.

It's not obvious and I am a stranger to Hindu culture, but elsewhere the deadly analogy holds. It has to do with the mentality it encourages. The Crusaders started biting their own before they even came near Jerusalem; the Talibs and Al Qaeda cite being inspired by the Arab use of terrorism, and so on.

The Palestinian demand for a state is not wrong .

I am not so sure. The objective isn't self-government or external protection but killing Jews. These aren't people clamoring for security, justice, and prosperity but a mob clamoring for torches and pitchforks. You think murders are merely their methods but I believe the Arabs when they claim these are their goals.