Lets call it a day!!!

[Adux]

which triggered quite a few Pakistani and non Pakistani members to go against him.

jeez would that be me!!!!!!

 

[x_man]

I have already mentioned my professional status and have no controversies about it.....I think other members do but that's their controversy, not mine.

But if it will help you all sleep at night, I'll become a taxi driver for you (as Cheetah786 mentioned).

 

[nina]

Nina,

I'll reopen your thread right away but please let me remind you again that mods decision are to be respected at all times, you just don't go questioning it in several threads.
Since you're a newbee aswell, I'll give you a break and let it slip this time but please do take my advice in consideration the next time any of your threads get closed.

Thanks!
Neo

thanks........

and ok.

 

[Always Neutral]

My two bits.

I like X mans attitude but not his language. Actually he reminds me of Tom Cruise in the movie Officer and Gentleman and MuradK reminds me of the NCO who disciplined him and taught him what it takes to be an officer and gentleman (no offense meant to MK or X man as far as the ranks are concerned). I think X man and MK (if i may call MuradK that) show the change in the PAF which has taken place over the time. As society becomes more materialistic there are bound to be young men who will question the expertise of the old and wise.

Regards

 

[Neo]

I have already mentioned my professional status and have no controversies about it.....I think other members do but that's their controversy, not mine.

But if it will help you all sleep at night, I'll become a taxi driver for you (as Cheetah786 mentioned).

I have just banned Johnny, who happens to be X_man's multi ID!
You're becoming an embarassement for yourself. What is it that you want from this board X_man, attention?

Neo

 

[Blossom]

I am sure that you heard it from a horses mouth because Tanveer has never said anything like that. PAF spends 1 million dollors per pilot and this figure was in 1993. Which Air Force are you in, If PAF than you should know that when PIA hit the skies majority of its pilots were from PAF in 1971 80% of the Ex-Fighter Pilots came back to serve there country, and after the war they joined PIA again.
In 2005, 2 Flt Lt and one Wing Commander joined PIA.
In 2006, 1 Fl Off, 3 Flt Lt, 2 sqd ldr joined various Airlines. Both Sqd Ldrs joined Emirates.
In 2007 1 Gp Capt joined PIA in March.
And I know this because I served in the Air Froce

lol
good one tiger!

 

[shehbazi2001]

The thread is an old one but after going through each and every post, I think that no one pointed to the root cause of the problem. In my personal opinion, everything starts from selection procedure and more importantly the ISSB. The ISSB is not designed to judge someone's passion for flying. They dont judge the knowledge of a candidate about aviation, air wars, history of PAF etc. Nothing sort of this.

A candidate who like military fighter flying and likes air force shall definitely have a knowledge of it. He shall definitely buy magazines to quench his thirst of air force knowledge, he shall rent and buy air force documentaries, he shall search and use internet, he shall study forums like this one and definitely his passion for fighter flying can be judged from his knowledge.

Nowadays, almost everyone knows how to use computer and many have bought their own computers. A guy fond of flying shall definitely try a flight simulation and thus can learn a lot.

In my interview with the president, I told him that he can ask me questions related to Air Force, Aviation, Air Wars etc..... The president asked me "whats the name of the aircraft that u see in the window?"...I replied "its F-86 Sabre"....he then continued "whats the difference between mirages of PAF and IAF??" ...I replied "IAF has Mirage-2000s and we have Mirage-3/5s"......

Then there was a side-roommate who had applied for aeronautical engineering and knew nothing of aircrafts, aviation, air war....nothing at all.....He did not even know that F-86 is a military or civilian aircraft.......He was offered by ISSB to join as GDP.......I received a letter of being not recommended.

I have no personal complaints but what I want to point out that if u select such candidates who just want a job and who just like military uniform and have not passion for fighter flying...........then the decline is obvious.....decline in all respects....

 

[Tang0]

I know a little bit about the selection process for the US Marine Naval Aviators, and it seems to get rid of malingerers pretty well. The solution, treat them like Infantry officers through Candidate school and The Basic School. Give them lots of chances to get kicked or leave throughout this period. Give them 4-5 hours of sleep a day for 6 weeks, 20 mile forced marches, and 5 mile runs. Teach them the realities of life as a groundpounder. If they don't want to serve their country, they quit well before flight training even starts. In the end, although some good pilots are scared away by the process, it saves money to weed out quitters early.

 

[niaz]

The thread is an old one but after going through each and every post, I think that no one pointed to the root cause of the problem. In my personal opinion, everything starts from selection procedure and more importantly the ISSB. The ISSB is not designed to judge someone's passion for flying. They dont judge the knowledge of a candidate about aviation, air wars, history of PAF etc. Nothing sort of this.

A candidate who like military fighter flying and likes air force shall definitely have a knowledge of it. He shall definitely buy magazines to quench his thirst of air force knowledge, he shall rent and buy air force documentaries, he shall search and use internet, he shall study forums like this one and definitely his passion for fighter flying can be judged from his knowledge.

Nowadays, almost everyone knows how to use computer and many have bought their own computers. A guy fond of flying shall definitely try a flight simulation and thus can learn a lot.

In my interview with the president, I told him that he can ask me questions related to Air Force, Aviation, Air Wars etc..... The president asked me "whats the name of the aircraft that u see in the window?"...I replied "its F-86 Sabre"....he then continued "whats the difference between mirages of PAF and IAF??" ...I replied "IAF has Mirage-2000s and we have Mirage-3/5s"......

Then there was a side-roommate who had applied for aeronautical engineering and knew nothing of aircrafts, aviation, air war....nothing at all.....He did not even know that F-86 is a military or civilian aircraft.......He was offered by ISSB to join as GDP.......I received a letter of being not recommended.

I have no personal complaints but what I want to point out that if u select such candidates who just want a job and who just like military uniform and have not passion for fighter flying...........then the decline is obvious.....decline in all respects....

Dont worry, I tried at to join PAF Public School in Sargodha in the 11th class, was rejected. The school had just started and my intervewer was a certain Sq Ldr J Rollo, if I remember correctly. This was in 1957! and my memory may be foggy. Out of 6 brothers who tried, only one got selected. Even he didnt make the grade as a pilot and was commissioned in the Ground Weapons Systems.

I dont think getting rejected by PAF is any disgrace; think it depends a lot on the interviewer.

Even in the PA, one of my cousins who was was very good in studies, got rejected for the Infantry, instead he was sent to engineering and ended up doing a full course at the Enginnering College Mughalpura. On the other hand, his younger brother whom all of us used think a bit dim, did good and joined 16th Ist Punjab. I have long ago given up on the Armed Forces criteria for entry as a cadet.

 

[fatman17]

Lets all calm down here.

If there is any misunderstanding or apologies due please use the PM system. Dont start personal attacks in the thread as it takes away its purpose.

Lastly, for x_man.. get mature, read a little, and apologize to the senior member MuradK for your behaviour.

Thanks.

to all concerned:
sorry i was out of the loop for last 3 days. i just want to say this in defence of x_man.
i have corrosponded with him on the PM system and he has satisfied me with his answers to my inquiries on certain PAF matters. I know he is serving in the PAF and is a A-5 pilot.

 

[x_man]

to all concerned:
sorry i was out of the loop for last 3 days. i just want to say this in defence of x_man.
i have corrosponded with him on the PM system and he has satisfied me with his answers to my inquiries on certain PAF matters. I know he is serving in the PAF and is a A-5 pilot.

Dear Sir Fatman

Thankyou for your support...

This is actually quite an old thread. Actually was my first....and all this happened an year ago..the date is 29 June 2007

Back then , I posted something without realising its outcome, things went from bad to worst and I ended up loosing my patience and got banned too.....But later I apologised to all involved and we all moved on......

After more than an year or so , this thread popped up again...Although I am not proud of this thread but I think that this forum has taught me to express myself in a better way and hope that I will continue to benefit from it....

 

[shehbazi2001]

Another important thing that i want to point out is the dependence of PAF on its cadet colleges like PAF College Sargodha and lower topa.

During my ISSB attempt in Kohat in 1997, by chance a batch of PAF College Sargodha also arrived. Their results of FSc were still not declared, but they were in ISSB under special rules. Civilians dont have this luxury.

Then during physical task, their performance was really pathetic. I could not believe that they are Sargodhians. Yet most of them were selected and a few were rejected. Now the rule is that once rejected by ISSB, you cant come again very soon, almost two or three months must pass in between. But I dont know what happened then but I heard that those rejected guys were re-included in the next batch and were cleared by ISSB.

Now PAF thinks that it has invested in these guys for 4 years and they must now serve. PAF thinks that they have Officer Like Qualities (OLQ) and they are tuned to discipline. I would not agree with this opinion. OLQ and discipline is not the first thing. The first thing is the fighting spirit, being a MAN OF ACTION, having a strong passion for wartime flying. We dont need aircraft drivers, we need combat pilots. During ISSB, I was wearing Shalwar-qameez during interview and may be that I lost points on OLQ. I would stress that dress and external appearance should not be taken into account. The inner talent, intelligence and the real potential should be judged.

The OLQ is a colonial mentality but still these things can be learnt very very rapidly and should not be a deciding factor. Disciplinary and seniority issues also need to eased in favor of talent. In Israeli Air Force, its a common thing that a Captain leads a Colonel if the Captain is well-suited to the job. Why cant we learn to respect the talent??

 

[Neo]

That was quite An entry X_Men...you even managed to piss me off...lol

A lot's changed since then, you've grown and become a valuable member of this board...a true asset!

 

[x_man]

That was quite en entry X_Men...you even managed to piss me off...lol

A lot's changed since then, you've grown and become a valuable member of this board...a true assett!

Thanks Neo...

I know , I pissed off many people...But the good part is that we put it behind us ,moved on and got to understand each other in much better way...

 

[x_man]

Another important thing that i want to point out is the dependence of PAF on its cadet colleges like PAF College Sargodha and lower topa.

During my ISSB attempt in Kohat in 1997, by chance a batch of PAF College Sargodha also arrived. Their results of FSc were still not declared, but they were in ISSB under special rules. Civilians dont have this luxury.

Then during physical task, their performance was really pathetic. I could not believe that they are Sargodhians. Yet most of them were selected and a few were rejected. Now the rule is that once rejected by ISSB, you cant come again very soon, almost two or three months must pass in between. But I dont know what happened then but I heard that those rejected guys were re-included in the next batch and were cleared by ISSB.

Now PAF thinks that it has invested in these guys for 4 years and they must now serve. PAF thinks that they have Officer Like Qualities (OLQ) and they are tuned to discipline. I would not agree with this opinion. OLQ and discipline is not the first thing. The first thing is the fighting spirit, being a MAN OF ACTION, having a strong passion for wartime flying. We dont need aircraft drivers, we need combat pilots. During ISSB, I was wearing Shalwar-qameez during interview and may be that I lost points on OLQ. I would stress that dress and external appearance should not be taken into account. The inner talent, intelligence and the real potential should be judged.

The OLQ is a colonial mentality but still these things can be learnt very very rapidly and should not be a deciding factor. Disciplinary and seniority issues also need to eased in favor of talent. In Israeli Air Force, its a common thing that a Captain leads a Colonel if the Captain is well-suited to the job. Why cant we learn to respect the talent??

Armed forces select cadets from all sort of background and walks of life....I remember that when i joined PAF College Sargodha back in 1986, there were few cadets that you wonder that how were they selected....apparently they lacked OLQs , speaking power and many basic manners....But over the mind blowing five and a half years of rigorous cadet ship ( back then) , the same cadets graduated with flying colours with full marks in OLQs and they made an excellent fighter pilot...

PAF gives you the equal opportunity...its upto you that how much you want to benefit from it....just give you one example......one of my juniors who hails from Gujrat and had a very humble background, his father was a sabzi wala and would sell vegetables door t door .....So when this guy joined the airforce, he couldn’t wear the trouser properly. after 5 years of training....he graduated with Sword of Honour....was on F-16s for 5 yeras before selected for test pilot course at UK...and is now carrying out weapon integration of JF-17 at China..........BTW ,your present Army Chief was a son of a JCO ( junior commissioned officer)......

So in a nut shell , once a guy qualifies ISSB , its the job of academies to polish the person and without any bias , equal opportunity is give to all to excel ...it all depends upon the person that how much he makes use of it...