Leaving Afghanistan, and the Lessons of America’s Longest War

[Chris Logan]

As long as no American is dying in a civil war in Afghanistan, Fine with me.

its the natural course of the conflict in afghan

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

The best description of this is through the famous Pakistani proverb, truck ki batti.

US did not enter Afghanistan to leave.

Pakistan's Government must formulate a policy of best interest in Afghanistan rather than forming the narrative of Afghan interests.

Indians know they have a limited window.
Soon as the Americans leave Pakistanis can initiate short term conflict on LoC that may go towards a full fledged war .

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I deployed to Afghan from 11-12, The USA is there only for strategic reasons and just to implement more training. The USA abandoned the whole nation building Idea like in 2012. Just a heads up, Some of my officer buddies who are still in are getting an awfully alot of classes about Pakistan (the US Military has a plethora of downtime and we use it for Military education and when we were in Iraq we heavily studied the inner workings of saddam etc, same for afghan)

What’s exactly that training at the taxpayers expense has achieved?? Thanks to all these meaningless WOT by the brainless generals, the China-Russia Axis is now challenging the US hegemony in all fields! Due to this even the Western alliance will break!! And, the West vs the West is the worst possible outcome....

By the by, you sound like an Indian troll....

 

[Adecypher]

No bombing missions are being allowed

IF allowed then it will seriously undermine the gains in Afghanistan and will also pose risk to the “internal security” of Pakistan...when we will learn from history when ...

 

[Zarvan]

IF allowed then it will seriously undermine the gains in Afghanistan and will also pose risk to the “internal security” of Pakistan...when we will learn from history when ...

Not being allowed. They already have other routes to bomb.

 

[crankthatskunk]

They are not leaving. Just shifting from Afghanistan to Pakistan, as many media reports are suggesting.
If this is true then it's my pledge to myself that, I will kill my patriotism with my own hands.
I am not going to sacrifice anything for sake of few harami elites in Pakistan, who don't have any intention to pass their retirement days in Pakistan.

Many signs are there that Pakistani army elites are about to play the same dirty game with the nation of Pakistan, what they have played frequently in the past and keep the nation in the dark, what they have decided to conceive to the Yanks.

I have been saying this for a while on this forum, Bajwa is turning out to the similar disaster like Kiyani. He even may surpass the treacherous achievements of Kiyani. That would be an achievement in itself.

The alarm bells should have started to ring, when NS was allowed to leave Pakistan on fake medical report and with the help of the judiciary.
If we analyse the weird and politically motivated decision by Unjust Baqar Najfi, we see a clear pattern of patronage.
You all know what I mean.
This judiciary and military leadership should be serious concerns for Pakistan.
Bajwa is Dangerous with capital D.

 

[Chris Logan]

What’s exactly that training at the taxpayers expense has achieved?? Thanks to all these meaningless WOT by the brainless generals, the China-Russia Axis is now challenging the US hegemony in all fields! Due to this even the Western alliance will break!! And, the West vs the West is the worst possible outcome....

By the by, you sound like an Indian troll....

Well Being a Hindu originally frim BD who also has family in India, I have to admit that I do have a slight Bias. Sure it might be a small setback for the west. But dont underestimate the West.

What’s exactly that training at the taxpayers expense has achieved?? Thanks to all these meaningless WOT by the brainless generals, the China-Russia Axis is now challenging the US hegemony in all fields! Due to this even the Western alliance will break!! And, the West vs the West is the worst possible outcome....

By the by, you sound like an Indian troll....

Well Being a Hindu originally frim BD who also has family in India, I have to admit that I do have a slight Bias. Sure it might be a small setback for the west. But, its not like we haven't been here before.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Many signs are there that Pakistani army elites are about to play the same dirty game with the nation of Pakistan, what they have played frequently in the past and keep the nation in the dark, what they have decided to conceive to the Yanks.

I have been saying this for a while on this forum, Bajwa is turning out to the similar disaster like Kiyani. He even may surpass the treacherous achievements of Kiyani. That would be an achievement in itself.

The alarm bells should have started to ring, when NS was allowed to leave Pakistan on fake medical report and with the help of the judiciary.
If we analyse the weird and politically motivated decision by Unjust Baqar Najfi, we see a clear pattern of patronage.
You all know what I mean.
This judiciary and military leadership should be serious concerns for Pakistan.
Bajwa is Dangerous with capital D.

Yaaaar, tbh, I dont know who takes real decisions in Pakistan. Seems like people gets labeled anti national for some specific personal reasons(same happened with Aber Bugti, Nawaz Sharif etc).

But whole of the idea of military decisions revolves around the line that Pakistan can't sustain against India without USAs help. And this idea disrupts everything about Pakistan, inside out.
But it is all about taking responsibility on our own shoulders and analyse things on the different notes. I am sure that, if things were possible for Talibs, then things might also be possible for us as well.

I don't know what I am saying...

 

[Adecypher]

Not being allowed. They already have other routes to bomb.

Ok, but no one can guarantee that this will not change for the worse.

If you remember the cost of the lives of 24 Soldiers was blockade of NATO route for “7 months” only !!!

Below is an excerpt from Pakistan Observer:
After Salala Attack by the US military, killing 24 Pakistani Army soldiers on 26 November 2011, Pakistan blocked logistic support to US and NATO forces in Afghanistan for seven months.

The ONLY thing I am trying to point out is that concessions have been given in various events in the past ONLY time will tell if we will see a U Turn ...

 

[GumNaam]

lesson #1: don't fck around with pathans!

 

[crankthatskunk]

Yaaaar, tbh, I dont know who takes real decisions in Pakistan. Seems like people gets labeled anti national for some specific personal reasons(same happened with Aber Bugti, Nawaz Sharif etc).

But whole of the idea of military decisions revolves around the line that Pakistan can't sustain against India without USAs help. And this idea disrupts everything about Pakistan, inside out.
But it is all about taking responsibility on our own shoulders and analyse things on the different notes. I am sure that, if things were possible for Talibs, then things might also be possible for us as well.

I don't know what I am saying...

If I were these decision makers, I would have gone down Chinese line at least 3/4 decades ago.
Go for economic strengthening. Build economy, which would result in defence strengthening. Enforce laws indiscriminately. Prosecute, jail and even hang traitors, fraudsters, looters of national wealth.
Pakistan could have progressed.
But opposite happened. Ayub created Bhuttos, which now taken over by Zardari by stealth. Zia created monster of NS , Which now expended to family Sharifs.
Loot and looters prevailed, lies and misinformation spread.

Pakistan which was progressing in 60s under Ayub, started to go down, until 3 years ago.
No planning and investment in the industry. The economy was run on imports and foreign and domestic loans.
Nobody questions the reported 5.8 miracle of "economic growth" under Dar by PMLN.
Things are improving since Imran Khan came to power, he is trying to correct underline problems. But it would take time. I worry that he would be pulled down before he succeed.
That's why I worry from the behaviour of Bajwa, he is highly compromised and making really bad decisions. One of escape of NS; he planned escape of SS too through similar route, but this time IK was alert, so he pulled it down, albeit with possibility of courts moving against him on Contempt.

I keep repeating here, people here have wrong priorities. Pakistan would not be build or pulled down because of one missile on JF17 or some new fighter plane for PAF.
IT would be build or pulled down through politics, which Pakistani army elite had been playing , had been playing for decades.

 

[fitpOsitive]

If I were these decision makers, I would have gone down Chinese line at least 3/4 decades ago.
Go for economic strengthening. Build economy, which would result in defence strengthening. Enforce laws indiscriminately. Prosecute, jail and even hang traitors, fraudsters, looters of national wealth.
Pakistan could have progressed.
But opposite happened. Ayub created Bhuttos, which now taken over by Zardari by stealth. Zia created monster of NS , Which now expended to family Sharifs.
Loot and looters prevailed, lies and misinformation spread.

Pakistan which was progressing in 60s under Ayub, started to go down, until 3 years ago.
No planning and investment in the industry. The economy was run on imports and foreign and domestic loans.
Nobody questions the reported 5.8 miracle of "economic growth" under Dar by PMLN.
Things are improving since Imran Khan came to power, he is trying to correct underline problems. But it would take time. I worry that he would be pulled down before he succeed.
That's why I worry from the behaviour of Bajwa, he is highly compromised and making really bad decisions. One of escape of NS; he planned escape of SS too through similar route, but this time IK was alert, so he pulled it down, albeit with possibility of courts moving against him on Contempt.

I keep repeating here, people here have wrong priorities. Pakistan would not be build or pulled down because of one missile on JF17 or some new fighter plane for PAF.
IT would be build or pulled down through politics, which Pakistani army elite had been playing , had been playing for decades.

Stories and stories. Virtual enemies all over. Continous fear, and half IQ masses. Its a perfect jungle for hunt. Some blame military, some blame bureaucracy. But I see a pool of elites, and there I see haramis from all walks of life(military, beucreacy, business etc).
Its 400 to 700 guys are all we need to kill or expell from Pakistan. And Pakistan will be on right track.

 

[SD 10]

Many signs are there that Pakistani army elites are about to play the same dirty game with the nation of Pakistan, what they have played frequently in the past and keep the nation in the dark, what they have decided to conceive to the Yanks.

I have been saying this for a while on this forum, Bajwa is turning out to the similar disaster like Kiyani. He even may surpass the treacherous achievements of Kiyani. That would be an achievement in itself.

The alarm bells should have started to ring, when NS was allowed to leave Pakistan on fake medical report and with the help of the judiciary.
If we analyse the weird and politically motivated decision by Unjust Baqar Najfi, we see a clear pattern of patronage.
You all know what I mean.
This judiciary and military leadership should be serious concerns for Pakistan.
Bajwa is Dangerous with capital D.

establishment always bends over for the yankees

 

[CriticalThinker02]

of course not, the USA can not invade Pakistan. it would be foolhardy, but the USA can put sanctions and trade restrictions. That is gonna hurt Pakistan.

We became a Nuclear power while under your sanctions, what makes you think this time would be any different.

 

[Kingslayerr]

the USA is still gonna infiltrate and influence. , just no troops on the ground

Yar with all due respect US cannot influence countries like Afghanistan or Pakistan unless they have troops on the ground. US provided 30+ billions to Pakistan and what Influence do they have today over the military? None Nada Nil. And what Influence will be left in Afghanistan after the withdrawal? Very less. If you want to influence these countries i doubt money would work, atleast not in terms of Pakistan.