LEAKED - India is burning Pakistan through TTP: Latif Ullah Mehsud TTP's 2nd In Command speaks out.

[MilSpec]

I have to find examples of Haqqani or Hizb Islami terrorism inside Pakistan and then I will accept the jibes on Pakistan have merit. TTP is a domestic terrorist organisation that was formed out of sectarian terrorists who have done Saudi bidding in targeting shias.

it is actually the other way round. it is our operations against them that have hurt them when they crossed over here.

Gen Nicholson says military operation in Fata has reduced militants’ ability to use Pakistani territory as safe haven

by the way to be objective and neutral to the discussion. I am compelled to say that it will help if Indian people in authority dont openly threaten Pakistan with painful consequences and if they have said things in the past then they will be highlighted... imagine how much storm you will make if Hafiz Saeed or Dawood Ibrahim is made a national security advisor or defence minister?

the open threats of people like Ajit Deval etc. dont make job of people like us easy who want to portray a peaceful and non-aggressive Indian image among the people who are told repeatedly that Indians are out to get us.

Irfaan Saab,
I understand what you are saying.

Ajit doval is the same guy, who handled the Op Blue Star, IC814. His views that are so popular in pakistan are from a speech that he gave in when he was a fellow at a vivekanand foundation, an independent think tank.

let's say very similar to General Musharraf's views when he goes on his book tours. He might say something that needs to be happen, like fight against corruption, but in power he signs a national reconciliation bill. There is a difference between personal opinion and state policy.

A senator from texas George W Bush said once, it is not US's business to police the world, but the same senator did the exact opposite when he became the POTUS.

One of the biggest disappointment in the current government is not it's posturing but it's rhetoric which has the constant foot in the mouth syndrome with leaders like parrikar and co.

but the fact of the matter is TTP actions in pakistan were at the highest with UPA led by MM Singh in India, whereas, they are at a minimal with this government.

 

[IceCold]

but the fact of the matter is TTP actions in pakistan were at the highest with UPA led by MM Singh in India, whereas, they are at a minimal with this government.

Really is this how you are going to defend than how about I give you a reality check. TTP actions in Pakistan were at their highest because Pakistan was not taking them head on. We had a PPP government and i dont have to tell what calibre Mr. Zardai had to lead Pakistan against anything yet alone against TTP and military did not wanted to get into driving position. It all changed not because India policy suddenly change but because after APS attack there was a broad consensus in Pakistan to take these pigs head on once and for all and this resulted in Zarb-e-Azb and significantly decrease of terrorism. Now these scums are hiding in safe heavens in Afghanistan and selectively targeting soft spots like schools and universities.

 

[MilSpec]

Really is this how you are going to defend than how about I give you a reality check. TTP actions in Pakistan were at their highest because Pakistan was not taking them head on. We had a PPP government and i dont have to tell what calibre Mr. Zardai had to lead Pakistan against anything and military did not wanted to get into driving position. It all changed not because India policy suddenly change but because after APS attack everyone in Pakistan decided to take these pigs head on and now they are hiding in Afghanistan and selectively targeting soft spots like schools and universities.

Defend?
I don't have to defend anyone, My government is more than capable of defending itself both diplomatically and militarily. When the world is pointing fingers at India for state sponsored terror, let us know.

 

[IceCold]

Defend?
I don't have to defend anyone, My government is more than capable of defending itself both diplomatically and militarily. When the world is pointing fingers at India for state sponsored terror, let us know.

Your world starts and ends with US and frankly we dont care what the US thinks or says at this point. But rest assured India likes to play with fire, be prepared to get your hands burned as well.

 

[MilSpec]

Your world starts and ends with US and frankly we dont care what the US thinks or says at this point. But rest assured India likes to play with fire, be prepared to get your hands burned as well.

hehe, says a country whose foreign policy has been crafted in US for decades now.

but the relevant part of post "likes to play with fire, be prepared to get your hands burned as well." I read some cognitive guilt there.

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

Again with the mental masturbation....
East Pakistan was India's neighbor Afghanistan is not. Why would US or UK have anything to do with bangladesh?
Read the link properly.

Clearly you have the IQ of a 7 year old,so u should drink complan regularly before bed...Chal ab so ja

 

[Albatross]

Considering taliban as a warring faction in pre rabbani era is quite a simplistic view of the ground reality. If you wan't to believe that sure go ahead, but if you dig down a little deeper, how Mulah Omar came to prominence after the avenging the child of the tribesmen who was molested by the local warlord, and this he did with 30 men under him from a local madarsa of singesar, growing populist movement under him, he gained momentum not during the Soviet occupattion but a good 4 years after that. By now Dar ul ullom Haqqania was supllying truck loads of talibs to Mullah omar, and wonder who was arming training and funding them? For sure it wasn't the US, they had pulled out of the region post Soviet collapse. The major power structure in 1992-94 was divided betwen ahmed rashid dostum, Ahmed Shah Massoud, Burhanudeen Rabbani, Gulbudeen hekymetyaar, Jalaluddin haqqani, and some other players like Ismail Khan, Abdul ali mazari. abdul Sayyaf and Abdul Haq.
In 1992 at fall of Kabul Gen Dostum allied with Ahmed Shah Massoud, once that happened it was a domino effect and the another division of the Afghan army defected to Massoud, securing bagram airbase. This was a pivotal moment in the history of Afganistan, where Ahmed Shah Massoud di not enter Kabul or seize power, instead Rabbini was the made the President, as a power sharing arrangement, Hekmetyaar was made the prime minister but he did not accept the position, rather quite famously qouted that he will enter kabul with a naked sword. This led to massoud entering Kabul to preserve the peshawar accords.

Hekymetyaar laid seige to Kabul with the backing of Pakistan, this was the first instant where Pakistani showed it's true intent to install a Pashtun leader in Kabul, although Hezb forces of hekymetyaar were repulsed by jamiat and massoud, but they were still in arty range, and Pakistan brought in rocket arty, and then ensued one of the worst artylerry attack on Kabul.

All of this happened in 1992- And there was NO TALIBAN, NO MULLAH OMAR none of that. major players were Massoud, Mazari, Dostum, Sayyaf, and Hekymetyaar.


1992-1996 was the next phase of war where Taliban gains powers, allies with - Hezb -e - islami (hekymetyaar) and gets immense funding from Pakistan, to finish what they failed at in 1992.

Yes, all of these mujaheddin groups at one time fought Soviets with the help of US and Pakistan, they also fought among themselves, there was infigthing between massoud and Hezb, there was infighting between sayyaf and hezb e whadat of Mazari, but none of these were shared "Mullah Omars Taliban values" (with the exception of maybe Abdul Rasul sayaaf)

When Mullah Omar rose to prominence, ISI bankrolled the logistics, the munition (same as it did for Hezb e islami in 1992) but this time with the difference of placing it's competent combatants as advisors in the ranks during the siege of kabul in 1996. between 92-96, pakistani mobilisation was so massive, that about 80-100k Pakistanis fought alongside Hekymetyaar, mullah omar, Haqqani, all under the umbrella network of Taliban (according to pakistani writer Ahmed Rshid).

If you take a college paper and wan't to treat taliban as just another mujhahideen faction to help you narrative, its fine by me, but that doesn't change the reality.

I would appreciate if you could provide me some neutral source regarding this information and I hope you would avoid Wikipedia as thats the least authentic source about things where politics are involved.

Okay now even if we take things as you stated I am very disappointed to see that you did not mention when Pakistan was supporting Hizb e Islami or Taliban later who was supporting their rivals?

Unfortunately India was a lead supporter of northern alliance despite not having any direct border with Afghanistan or have shed any blood or efforts in their previous bloody and painful war for self determination against Russia on the contrary she was an ally of Russia but when she saw that USSR is broken and now Pakistan will naturally try to gain more space in a region full of natural resources and strategic location she came up supporting northern alliance just to make sure Pakistan doesnt get what she rightly deserves out of sheer hatred and enmity .

So India interests in Afghanistan were and are Pakistan centric only and the title of this thread clearly states what I am referring to .

As for university papers are concerned the one I quoted it was not written by a student or some unknown blogger it got its inputs from US renowned publishers. Here they are

Maley, William. Fundamentalism Reborn: Afghanistan and the Taliban. New York: New York University Press, 1998.

Coll, Steve. “The Stand-off.” New Yorker 82.1 (2006): 126-139.

Moreau, Ron. “Where the Jihad Lives Now” Newsweek150.18 (2007): 26-34.

So when Indians try to paint as if Pakistan created Talibans and thus free themselves of any wrong doings its our right to let them see how things actually were instead of how they wanted it to be and the fact remains that all Talibs and their senior leadership was a part Mujahidin which later split due to infighting and Pakistan supported them as we had no other choice as our enemies were supporting rivals of Talibans.

Again factually wrong. Kashmir valley had prominent Mulsim Population, not jammu and Ladakh. Junhagadh had had Plebiscite and with a massive vote chose to secede to India.

Kashmir valley had 90% plus Muslim populace while Jammu and Ladakh had dominant Muslim populace means more than 50% . By the way I would like you to tell us who authorise plebiscite in Junadagh despite her ruler signing instrument of accession ?

Again factually wrong, You invaded the state of jammu and kashmir, once India got involved you lost territory in Kashmir. Much like every conflict, Pakistani actions are tactically brilliant .... untill India gets involved.
You are also quite wrong on the referendum- there are preconditions to the plebiscite which hasn't been meet.

Well if I am wrong and India was gaining back her territory then it defies logic why she went running to UN it should have been Pakistan . Other conflicts ? In 65 your army attacked Sialkot claiming they will have their morning breakfast in Lahore Gymkhana and it never happened infact they were not able to take even an inch of Pakistan land .

Yeah I give you credit for creating Makti Bahini in 71 and making them rape and kill Bengalis wearing PA uniform and we had to surrender to save the lives and respect of our east Pakistani brother and sisters . Its not me only Bengali PM last year awarded Modi too for their heinous crimes in 71 and for creation of Makti bahini.


Plebiscite has conditions which has to be met from both sides but how can we expect India to meet them when she is singing Atoot Ang shit all the time and is always trying to remove or downplay Kashmir from any dialogue?

TTP is not Indian proxy, Indian people dont donate money in thier places of worship for holy war in pakistan, unlike what happens in pakistan where LET and JEM have genuine following in Pakistan. I see this fad of pointing at indian involvement almost as a self fulfilling prophecy. Please be careful for what you wish for.

Well it gives you some sort of self satisfaction to believe India is not involved with TTP and in Afghanistan but its against all the ground realities and I would advise you to see this .

Now coming to LET and JEM well firstly they wouldnt have been created has India fullfiled her obligations under UN resolutions about Kashmir so its India to blame first .

Secondly out of 200 million population of Pakistan their followers would amount to be less than 10 thousand which is negligible when seen on the national scale .

India has more RSS and Sanghis than them forsure and killing of Muslims over Cows clearly shows these people are at the same level as the one's you mentioned why we dont see Indians rising in masses to deny this approach and Ghar wapsi schemes on the contrary what we see is all Muslim super starts and liberals like Karan Johar are also saying India is turning into a Sickular state instead of secular one.

Anyways I am getting off topic here .

You should read more. But nevertheless I admire the zeal.

regards.

You seem like an educated person too as you atleast dont opt for usual Indian rhetoric and do try to put in words what you have been made to believe as for your advice about reading is concerned I like human history and do read when ever get time as it let one see things on a scale which our usual media would not want us to see.




I would advise you to choose carefully what you are going to read as we have lots of gibberish around just to serve certain agenda's and have little or no relation with reality.

About our zeal well just read some independent and neutral views about Pakistan history since 47 and you would see that if we still have a state that goes by the name of Pakistan despite having visible enemies 7 times bigger than us and many powerful hidden enemies its just because of this zeal to get whats ours and to fight for what is right and we are and never were Indian centric only e.g sending our pilots to shoot down Israeli planes in 67 Arab - Israel war.

Regards

 

[MilSpec]

I would appreciate if you could provide me some neutral source regarding this information and I hope you would avoid Wikipedia as thats the least authentic source about things where politics are involved.

Okay now even if we take things as you stated I am very disappointed to see that you did not mention when Pakistan was supporting Hizb e Islami or Taliban later who was supporting their rivals?

Unfortunately India was a lead supporter of northern alliance despite not having any direct border with Afghanistan or have shed any blood or efforts in their previous bloody and painful war for self determination against Russia on the contrary she was an ally of Russia but when she saw that USSR is broken and now Pakistan will naturally try to gain more space in a region full of natural resources and strategic location she came up supporting northern alliance just to make sure Pakistan doesnt get what she rightly deserves out of sheer hatred and enmity .

So India interests in Afghanistan were and are Pakistan centric only and the title of this thread clearly states what I am referring to .

As for university papers are concerned the one I quoted it was not written by a student or some unknown blogger it got its inputs from US renowned publishers. Here they are

Maley, William. Fundamentalism Reborn: Afghanistan and the Taliban. New York: New York University Press, 1998.

Coll, Steve. “The Stand-off.” New Yorker 82.1 (2006): 126-139.

Moreau, Ron. “Where the Jihad Lives Now” Newsweek150.18 (2007): 26-34.

So when Indians try to paint as if Pakistan created Talibans and thus free themselves of any wrong doings its our right to let them see how things actually were instead of how they wanted it to be and the fact remains that all Talibs and their senior leadership was a part Mujahidin which later split due to infighting and Pakistan supported them as we had no other choice as our enemies were supporting rivals of Talibans.




Kashmir valley had 90% plus Muslim populace while Jammu and Ladakh had dominant Muslim populace means more than 50% . By the way I would like you to tell us who authorise plebiscite in Junadagh despite her ruler signing instrument of accession ?





Well if I am wrong and India was gaining back her territory then it defies logic why she went running to UN it should have been Pakistan . Other conflicts ? In 65 your army attacked Sialkot claiming they will have their morning breakfast in Lahore Gymkhana and it never happened infact they were not able to take even an inch of Pakistan land .

Yeah I give you credit for creating Makti Bahini in 71 and making them rape and kill Bengalis wearing PA uniform and we had to surrender to save the lives and respect of our east Pakistani brother and sisters . Its not me only Bengali PM last year awarded Modi too for their heinous crimes in 71 and for creation of Makti bahini.


Plebiscite has conditions which has to be met from both sides but how can we expect India to meet them when she is singing Atoot Ang shit all the time and is always trying to remove or downplay Kashmir from any dialogue?





Well it gives you some sort of self satisfaction to believe India is not involved with TTP and in Afghanistan but its against all the ground realities and I would advise you to see this .

Now coming to LET and JEM well firstly they wouldnt have been created has India fullfiled her obligations under UN resolutions about Kashmir so its India to blame first .

Secondly out of 200 million population of Pakistan their followers would amount to be less than 10 thousand which is negligible when seen on the national scale .

India has more RSS and Sanghis than them forsure and killing of Muslims over Cows clearly shows these people are at the same level as the one's you mentioned why we dont see Indians rising in masses to deny this approach and Ghar wapsi schemes on the contrary what we see is all Muslim super starts and liberals like Karan Johar are also saying India is turning into a Sickular state instead of secular one.

Anyways I am getting off topic here .







You seem like an educated person too as you atleast dont opt for usual Indian rhetoric and do try to put in words what you have been made to believe as for your advice about reading is concerned I like human history and do read when ever get time as it let one see things on a scale which our usual media would not want us to see.


I would advise you to choose carefully what you are going to read as we have lots of gibberish around just to serve certain agenda's and have little or no relation with reality.

About our zeal well just read some independent and neutral views about Pakistan history since 47 and you would see that if we still have a state that goes by the name of Pakistan despite having visible enemies 7 times bigger than us and many powerful hidden enemies its just because of this zeal to get whats ours and to fight for what is right.

Regards

About the afghan conflict I wrote is what I know, you can ask @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Jungibaaz to check it's authenticity.

as far as the rest of your post you are entitled to your views.

 

[Albatross]

About the afghan conflict I wrote is what I know, you can ask @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Jungibaaz to check it's authenticity.

as far as the rest of your post you are entitled to your views.

Well I was looking for some place where I can read about that conflict in that context but I did reply stating even if all that was right as you said it still didnt implicate Pakistan the way you earlier said .

And I guess we both happily agree to disagree but I like your civil manners we get very little people from our east on our forum who knows how to argue with logic and even if one runs out of logic or answer how to accept that in a civil manner.

And yes you are entitled to your views as well

Thanks and Regards

 

[Irfan Baloch]

About the afghan conflict I wrote is what I know, you can ask @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @Jungibaaz to check it's authenticity.

as far as the rest of your post you are entitled to your views.

thanks none of us has to apologise for our choice of proxies in Afghanistan.
the problem arose when our guys hosted a former "rouge" proxy of soviet jihad years.


one thing you might find interesting ( but might choose not to care is) some ( if not all) of the warlords that make up the northern alliance were fighting each other for power in Kabul until the taliban made an appearance. is't this scandalous that one of the leaders of Northern alliance were former members of the brutal communist regime that spilled the blood of the Afghans? yes .. General Dostum is known as the butcher and staunch supporter of the Soviet occupation.

that all said. in Pakistan there is a view by both military and civilian commentators that the era of proxy wars is over and it wont help either of us (India and Pakistan). the problem or hurdle with this view is that on the Indian side there is more of a hawkish and vindictive rhetoric ( no matter which party is ruling) and there is an urgency to "milk" the opportunity of chaos caused post American invasion of Afghanistan and its spill over to Pakistan

for our sake.. if Afghanistan is stabilised and TTP dies out due toe lack of feed from outside world... then hopefully Indian policy makers will see sense in bringing the things a notch down ,, ( we wish lol). when that doesnt happen.. people like Hafiz Saeed etc will keep making public headings. PS I hate the guy and want him restrained and face the justice.

 

[MilSpec]

thanks none of us has to apologise for our choice of proxies in Afghanistan.
the problem arose when our guys hosted a former "rouge" proxy of soviet jihad years.


one thing you might find interesting ( but might choose not to care is) some ( if not all) of the warlords that make up the northern alliance were fighting each other for power in Kabul until the taliban made an appearance. is't this scandalous that one of the leaders of Northern alliance were former members of the brutal communist regime that spilled the blood of the Afghans? yes .. General Dostum is known as the butcher and staunch supporter of the Soviet occupation.

that all said. in Pakistan there is a view by both military and civilian commentators that the era of proxy wars is over and it wont help either of us (India and Pakistan). the problem or hurdle with this view is that on the Indian side there is more of a hawkish and vindictive rhetoric ( no matter which party is ruling) and there is an urgency to "milk" the opportunity of chaos caused post American invasion of Afghanistan and its spill over to Pakistan

for our sake.. if Afghanistan is stabilised and TTP dies out due toe lack of feed from outside world... then hopefully Indian policy makers will see sense in bringing the things a notch down ,, ( we wish lol). when that doesnt happen.. people like Hafiz Saeed etc will keep making public headings. PS I hate the guy and want him restrained and face the justice.

In my opinion Gen Dostum and Abdul sayyaf are the biggest war criminals in the Afghanistan. Gen Dostum is one of the most corrupt scumbag you can find, he defected to jamiat, then for a while even taliban, and back to massoud. Abdul Sayyaf is a closet taliban, and in my opinion was the one who facilitated the assassination of Ahmed Shah Massoud.

Although I have a personal liking towards the conduct of Massoud, his men turned a blind eye when junbish milli massacred captured combatants from the fort in mazar e sharif, I cant remember the name of the fort now.
You are absolutely right on the that account that Northern alliance fighters were no doves.

Little known fact is Indian support went straight to Panjshir and never to the rest. Another leader I think who could have made some progress was Abdul Haq.

 

[Dash]

He read Quran while he was in jail and it helped him change his mind...great.

But then me thinks what was he reading before?

 

[Neutron]

check that figure, how many of them are caused by drone strikes, how many were taliban combatants and how many were caused by PAF air strikes.

The reason I say the above is because you are factually wrong. Out of the 60,000 innocent people the following numbers were available at satp
View attachment 290642

My point exactly.

Thank you.

This data proved that someone is now exploiting the fault lines of Pakistan. I hope you know and everyone can guess who is the someone here.

Someone who confessed to exploit the fault lines of Pakistan and claiming it to be defensive offensive strategy.

Shockingly , this someone is none other than the National Security Advisor of the neighbouring state.
I call him Mastermind of TTP , but his country men think that he is national security advisor.

He is also known as Ajit Kumar Dovel , but world will remember him as Mastermind of TTP.

 

[MilSpec]

My point exactly.

Thank you.

This data proved that someone is now exploiting the fault lines of Pakistan. I hope you know and everyone can guess who is the someone here.

Someone who confessed to exploit the fault lines of Pakistan and claiming it to be defensive offensive strategy.

Shockingly , this someone is none other than the National Security Advisor of the neighbouring state.
I call him Mastermind of TTP , but his country men think that he is national security advisor.

He is also known as Ajit Kumar Dovel , but world will remember him as Mastermind of TTP.

read 272, you will get my take on it

 

[ghauri05]

meh, they'll say anything once you torture them good enough.

or what, a sudden transformation from dreaded TTP commander to patriotic Pakistani on being captured ?

sorry, not buying it.

The same logic applies on Ajmal Qasab too...and u know how much he was tortured, and also to all there people Indian forces capture and say they are terrorists from Pak...and your media also finds some ID cards on them

Seriously man,denial is not a solution....every body knows that INdia is involved in this when Ajit Doval and your defence minister publicly say that we will fund those terrorists with 1.5 times more resources...there is nothing to deny...!!!
Please come out of delusion that India is some sort of Holy state,who does not meddles in others affairs.