LD-10 can become a game changer for Pakistan air force?

[CriticalThought]

As a SAM? I can't say, but if so, then I guess the idea would be pairing an anti-radiation seeker to the DK-10 (i.e., the SAM variant of the SD-10).

And how about A2S? I am reconfirming because I find it a stretch that the exact same missile is used in both A2A and A2S.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

And how about A2S? I am reconfirming because I find it a stretch that the exact same missile is used in both A2A and A2S.

The SD-10 is the AAM
The LD-10 is the A2G anti-radiation missile (ARM)

The DK-10 is the SAM (w/active radar-homing)

So a SAM version of LD-10 would have be derived from the DK-10.

The real question is ... how different is the DK-10 from the SD-10/LD-10? There's no information stating that these missiles are exactly the same or identical, just that they're from the same family or closely related.

 

[CriticalThought]

The SD-10 is the AAM
The LD-10 is the A2G anti-radiation missile (ARM)

The DK-10 is the SAM (w/active radar-homing)

So a SAM version of LD-10 would have be derived from the DK-10.

The real question is ... how different is the DK-10 from the SD-10/LD-10? There's no information stating that these missiles are exactly the same or identical, just that they're from the same family or closely related.

Thanks for that clarification. In order to use this in A2S mode, probably (and here I am theorizing) the pilot would need to select A2S mode, then line the aircraft in a gradient towards the ground target. A slightly complicated way of firing. I guess the disadvantage is offset by the dual purpose role allowing the same weapons load to act in multiple mission profiles. In other words, a step towards making Thunder swing role.

@Arsalan @War Thunder @pakistanipower

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Thanks for that clarification. In order to use this in A2S mode, probably (and here I am theorizing) the pilot would need to select A2S mode, then line the aircraft in a gradient towards the ground target. A slightly complicated way of firing. I guess the disadvantage is offset by the dual purpose role allowing the same weapons load to act in multiple mission profiles. In another case, a step towards making Thunder swing role.

@Arsalan @War Thunder @pakistanipower

No it's a single-purpose missile. Basically, LD-10 and SD-10 are two different models, the only difference is the seeker. So if you're equipped with 2 LD-10, you can only use them as an A2G ARM. The versatility is at the production and logistics level, you produce one set of rockets and frames, but two different seekers (as opposed to two entirely different missiles).

 

[CriticalThought]

No it's a single-purpose missile. Basically, LD-10 and SD-10 are two different models, the only difference is the seeker. So if you're equipped with 2 LD-10, you can only use them as an A2G ARM.

Then why does OP talk about using it against AWACS? The aerodynamic profile is quite suited for A2A role.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Then why does OP talk about using it against AWACS? The aerodynamic profile is quite suited for A2A role.

Unclear. I'm just not aware of the LD-10 ever being described as an AAM, but a SEAD asset.

 

[CriticalThought]

Unclear. I'm just not aware of the LD-10 ever being described as an AAM, but a SEAD asset.

SEAD would include wild weasel and jamming air assets such as the Growler.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

We already had MAR 1 for the same role and they are better at it.

and where is MAR-1?

 

[Windjammer]

and where is MAR-1?

I believe it's very much operational sir.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

I believe it's very much operational sir.

View attachment 537283

i don't believe it is. It is a failed project that has been short closed.

 

[CriticalThought]

i don't believe it is. It is a failed project that has been short closed.

The Wikipedia entry raises a lot of questions. From the onset it faced sanctions, so Brasil had to develop gyroscopes, spiral antennas etc. And we all know Brasil doesn't have the capability to design such parts.

 

[Windjammer]

i don't believe it is. It is a failed project that has been short closed.

The image i posted is from Veterans Day held at Sargodha a few years earlier and it's widely reported that PAF acquired 100 such missiles.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

SEAD would include wild weasel and jamming air assets such as the Growler.

Yes, but you can employ them in CAS as well by equipping the JF-17s to take down mobile AD units accompanying enemy armour (helps our fighters and helicopters).

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

The image i posted is from Veterans Day held at Sargodha a few years earlier and it's widely reported that PAF acquired 100 such missiles.

Thats where there is a gap. There is no MAR-1 in PAF.

 

[Windjammer]

Thats where there is a gap. There is no MAR-1 in PAF.

Not sure about it's present status but earlier several reputable sources reported it's integration.


ASIA PACIFIC
Date Posted: 05-May-2011


Defence Weekly


Integration confirmed for Brazil's MAR-1 missile


Robert Hewson Air-Launched Weapons Editor - London


can confirm that Pakistan has taken delivery of the Brazilian MAR-1 anti-radiation missile and is integrating the weapon on its PAC JF-17 Thunder multirole combat aircraft as well as upgraded Dassault Mirage III and V ROSE fighters.

The MAR-1 is an air-launched defence suppression weapon developed as an independent national programme by Mectron in co-operation with the Brazilian Air Force (FAB).

In 2008 a MAR-1 order from Pakistan for 100 missiles valued at EUR85 million (USD126 million) was announced by the Brazilian government, which provided export credit support for the deal. Reports from Pakistan suggested that deliveries started in 2009.

Mectron would not comment on the MAR-1 programme except to say that "we have an export client and we have delivered missiles to that client". However, during the April 2011 Latin American Aerospace and Defence (LAAD) show in Rio de Janeiro, learnt that an active integration effort is now underway for both the ROSE Mirage and JF-17 in Pakistan Air Force (PAF) service.

This confirms statements made during the 2010 Farnborough Airshow by the PAF's JF-17 Programme Manager, Air Vice Marshall Mohammad Arif, who identified the MAR-1 as a future JF-17 weapon.

The JF-17 is a co-development project between Pakistan and China. It is now in full production at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra, where about 30 aircraft have been assembled. In April 2011 the PAF stood up its second JF-17 unit (No 26 Squadron) and a third unit (No.4 Squadron) will follow later this year.

Integration of the MAR-1 with the JF-17 shows that Pakistan has a well-structured programme to expand the capability of the aircraft beyond its Chinese roots. The MAR-1 is the second non-Chinese weapon that the JF-17 is known to be adopting after the Hafr runway penetration bomb. Pakistan has also explored the possibility of adding French avionics (including radar) and weapons (including the Mica air-to-air missile) to the aircraft, but PAF JF-17 programme officials told that those options have been shelved in favour of "less politically complicated projects".

Once operational, the MAR-1 will be the PAF's only modern anti-radiation weapon and a significant boost to its combat capabilities. The missile has several operational modes, but is typically used in a pre-programmed attack against known emitting targets in a lock-on-after-launch engagement. Mectron has developed a dedicated mission planning system for such operations.

The MAR-1 is likely to operate, at least initially, with a 'missile-as-sensor' function, meaning that the weapon's own wideband radio frequency seeker is the primary sensor for emitter location and targeting. The JF-17's Chinese developers certainly have the expertise to produce a more capable emitter location system in the future. The MAR-1 can also use supplementary targeting information from the JF-17's radar warning receivers.

Pakistan has a growing number of electronic intelligence (ELINT) systems with which it can build an electronic order of battle of hostile emitters to support MAR-1 targeting. This includes the highly capable HES-21 ELINT system carried by the PAF's recently delivered Erieye airborne early warning and control aircraft.

The MAR-1 is fully MIL-STD-1553 and -1760 databus compatible. For non databus-equipped aircraft a standalone integration using a dedicated fire-control unit and display can be fitted in the cockpit. That is the approach adopted for Brazil's non-upgraded Embraer AMX (A-1) attack aircraft. The MAR-1 has yet to enter formal FAB service, but understands that qualification flight testing in Brazil will conclude by the end of 2011.

A full-scale model of Mectron's MAR-1 anti-radiation missile, which will add a significant new capability to Pakistan's JF-17 fighters.