LCA Tejas Reveals More Indigenous Features !

[Windjammer]

The idiocy shown by some Indian members like above is unparalleled, maybe the Capital ''I'' for both is not a coincidence.
Even the likes of developed nations like Japan and Israel openly admit that their aircraft are based on American or Anglo French designs ( Mitsubishi F-1 or F-2 A and Lavi for example)....but how can the Indians who invented the Internet many centuries ago or who have the ability to monitor satellites with naked eye or who made history by tracking the Yeti can be seen in the same category as Japan or Israel....it's anotgher thing Indians rely on the minute Zionist state for their own security.
Hell these call centre Kapoors are even more knowledgeable than their own war lords. Like their former ACM Srinivasapuram Krishnaswamy....who had disclosed more Indigenous shocker for the fanboys.





THE ROADBLOCKS
A search was initiated for a suitable design for the LCA. Two designs from Germany were evaluated. They were unique but unfamiliar and did not generate enthusiasm in the Indian Air Force (IAF). The IAF was then in the process of procuring the Mirage-2000. The aircraft was test-flown by the IAF team, which was impressed by its design and performance.


The ADA invited M/s Dassault Aviation for design assistance in developing a lightweight combat aircraft (The Air Force had the Gnat in mind and was looking to replace the Mig-21s). Dassault agreed to support the Project Definition Phase (PDP) wherein the Indian engineers would participate. The aim was to come up with the basic design for the aircraft. The work was carried out in France, using the French facilities.

Similarly, L.M. Ericsson of Sweden was roped in for the PDP to develop the design of Air Interception (AI) Radar. The radar design that was presented did not meet the performance expectations of the Air Force.

https://www.news18.com/news/opinion...signed-the-light-combat-aircraft-3316367.html

 

[drunken-monke]

What is vice versa: JF17 can surprise Tejas without letting him know who did it!!!



How is that possible when you claim

• thrashing china after loosing 1000 km^2 with most humilated pictures
• Shooting down F16 of PAF
• Surgical strike to kill 400-2000 terrorist ended up on a crow only
• Calling JF17 a junk even after getting exported

Your officials blunder every month. These are some points i can remember in a minutes and I may have missed a lot. troll vs troll!

You have a history of failures in recent decades it's ok to be fail but trolling some one who is more efficient is not.
The way your media reports about us is more than comedy series.
You troll us for low budget etc but we have our own jets, tanks and missiles what you did with giant budget?(Tejas? Arjun?). This giant budget is not making you able to feed your soldiers...
I surrender!

You are free to imagine whatever you wish for!!. No harm in that till the bursting of bubble and entering the war zone.. I am not saying that JF can't down a tejas, but if you are saying reverse of this can't be possible, then that's overstatement ..

 

[serenity]

Why comparing capabilities of a mid weight and heavy weight fighters with that of a light one??

Everyone here seems to be expert on LCA, forgetting the fact that a missile fired from LCA can can burn the rear of J10, J20, JF17 or any other jet thrown against LCA and vice-versa.

Every nation tries to protect itself by whatever the resources it can manage. Obviously in terms of capabilities, the big boys you have mentioned has more when compared with tiny LCA. But you can not write off LCA as like that.. It will have its place and importance in defense.

You are responding to a child or a troll posing as Chinese. He is just around to make Chinese people look as stupid as childish as his posts mostly are.

 

[Kaleem.61]

You are free to imagine whatever you wish for!!. No harm in that till the bursting of bubble and entering the war zone.. I am not saying that JF can't down a tejas, but if you are saying reverse of this can't be possible, then that's overstatement ..

Yes it's possible if JF stationed along with Indian border.

If it can do something then why you did not dare to show him up. [Rawpheil hota tu yeh na hota]

 

[serenity]

My opinion on Tejas and India's aviation industry in comparison to Pakistan would be to suggest JF-17 is more successful at its job than Tejas simply because when Tejas is at 10 units, Pakistan was flying around 100 JF-17 and already had block 2 and twin seater near service.

However the Tejas program is India's own and India does more with the Tejas fighter even if the engine is F404. Kaveri engine program even in failure gives some valuable lessons and knowledge and still a stepping stone. How it is used we don't know.

JF-17 itself also represent a stepping stone as China would have given Pakistan all the know how for JF-17 because Pakistan is co-developer and ally. Everything about every technology in JF-17 is available for Pakistani to use and understand and develop further to on their own if they choose to. In some ways, Pakistan got advantages India didn't as India needed to do the whole thing on its own. Even if things are sourced or developed by contractors from overseas.

It's good to say India put a lot of effort and developed many good engineers out of this program. There is learning about technology you previously did not have and there is mastering it and being able to develop it and even better after it. India always criticizes and makes fun of China even though the truth is there is much more to something than simply saying the technology was already done elsewhere before you. So what. At least we understand it now and know everything about it to make our own and make it better and so on. I could be talking about radar or stealth or weapons. India should use Tejas as stepping stone. JF-17 is used by Pakistan as stepping stone. Neither have projects bigger than these but only in name - AMCA and AZM. However TEDBF seems more doable, really it is just Tejas variant rather than totally new fighter. Of course those ahead will bring out technologies like stealth before you but once you understand and master it, then it is also something you are able to do. Saying that this technology is out somewhere else already doesn't mean anything. It doesn't take away from the engineers who had to still master it and develop their own version and their own shaping and so on. This would just be an example of one and so India using Tejas experience is stepping ahead because it forces all the teams and development agencies to work and master these technologies unless it is totally outsourced. Pakistan got all of it quickly with JF-17. Russia wouldn't provide free or cheap assistance for India on any matter except to maybe pay to use consultants and wind tunnels and things like that which I'm sure happens but I think not to the degree Chinese assistance could have been involved for JF-17.

JF-17 is currently much more useful compared to Tejas. This is what Pakistan needed. Just some F-16s was not enough and with JF-17 they can build and buy it themselves for not so much money and build as many as they need. It also offers to make up lots of BVR capable fighter numbers quickly and it did that job. India already had Mig-29, Su-30, MKI, and Mirage and was in no hurry to require something like Pakistan needed for JF-17. Should Pakistan be made fun of for reaching its goal quickly through joint program? Of course not. Their main requirement was satisfied and it works well for this. It even managed to win two export orders already and onto third block upgrades. It also been used in countless exercises and even war. It may not be much but at least shows Pakistan Airforce knows what they want to use it for and confident to use it in real war. I think JF-17 has been overwhelming success for Pakistan. And for the money used to develop and buy more than 100 of them, it is really impressive.

 

[Chhatrapati]

The narrative put up by chhatrapati is a typical Gobar Parsad rant to salvage some bruised ego...or as they say in our part of the world....Chor Machaye Shor.
It's no secret that it took all major players around the globe for Bharti Basanti to get induced with Tejas.
Once all was presented on a platter, there's no question who just did the nuts and bolts and did the paint job....the only thing indigenous on Tejas were only the Indian Coconuts and Lemons to bless it.

What actually happened between 1983 and 2000? First, let us take the promise of indigenous development. In 1986 an agreement was quietly signed with the United States that permitted DRDO to work with four US Air force laboratories. The to-be-indigenously-developed engine for the LCA -- Kaveri -- was forgotten and the US made General Electric F-404 engine was substituted. Radar was sourced from Erricson Ferranti, carbon-fibre composite panels for wings from Alenia and fly-by-wire controls from Lockheed Martin. Design help was sought from British Aerospace, Avion Marcel Dassault and Deutsche Aerospace. Wind tunnel testing was done in the US, Russia and France. As for armaments -- missiles, guns, rockets and bombs -- every last item was to be imported.

Trying to make up for the lack of intellect back home by calling us names or what may seem trivial in a globalized world as an embarrassment is only showing your bruised ego. Or simply the jealousy, why the country you mock and laugh at achieving so much while you're still riding the moped and Mehran we ditched nearly a decade ago. Where are the mard e momins who seem to brag how they're 10 times better than Indians, files 71 times fewer patents at USPTO. Is a point to ponder for you, and then and only then you a Pakistani of all people in the world can start mocking others for the indigenousness or lack of it.

And if Indian engineers worked in a US lab, does that make Tejas an American jet? What kind of logic are you trying to fly with here? That our engineers trained in the west so they helped in designing a jet somehow make it not ours? I like how you scanned Wikipedia articles know about the design phase and trying to fool the gullible fanboys, LM did not sell any FBW systems to India, neither did they design them, their involvement is only consultations and certification. Just because it worked you now credit its development to LM, Dessault etc... etc...

Similarly, the Kaveri engine design didn't take off simply because it had fallen short of the required thrust for the jet among other things. Let's say if we have made the engine work and generate 90KN thrust with Ab. You would credit it to Dassault, or Safran and the French who is involved in the consultation and certification of the engine. Unfortunately for us, we couldn't use Kaveri for Tejas. So do you credit the failure to Safran or GTRE in India?

India sought "help" from the pioneers of fighter jet development, much like any other country that wants to design and develop its own jets. French, British, and the Americans even some Israeli companies were consulted for the subsystems. So what? Are you saying we should reinvent the wheel?

 

[Bilal9]

You're following the procedures of civilian/passenger jets, this approach is bad for LCA/Tejas

My thoughts exactly. Risk and profit sharing aircraft programs do not work for military jets (involving large traditional overseas companies like what was done for Airbus), very shaky propositions for marketing a product Made in India overseas, and certainly not for want of trying. China Pakistan collaboration for JF-17 was special case.

I am sorry - the sales of Dhruv Heli to Ecuador and the resultant reliability/crash fiascos only go to prove how difficult it is for a country such as India to market and offer maintenance for a product like this. HAL is still not a mature organization, IAF personnel said so themselves.

Ergo - you can only develop a military aircraft program in India for local air force usage (and there is certainly demand there). In which LCA has not been a rip-roaring success either. Dhruv also had its share of mishaps. The entire technology package for the engine and rotor (elastomeric bearing in the rotor hub) was delivered by MBB in Germany, to say nothing of the avionics which was most sourced from overseas. Yet even the integration of these things were effed up by HAL. That organization is not staffed by professionals it seems.

I am willing to stand corrected if someone in India knows otherwise.

 

[BON PLAN]

SAAB J-37 Viggen ........... lca Tejas
View attachment 774057

Cut back the rear section of the Swedish SAAB J-37 Viggen and add the Frontal of Mirage-2000 and you have the INDIGENIOUS LCA Tejas in all it's glory.

View attachment 774058

JF-17 is not very original in its design also. And less indigenous. SO....

 

[abdulbarijan]

JF-17 is not very original in its design also. And less indigenous. SO....

1. The fact is that the Pakistani side never claimed the JFT to be an indigenous aircraft. It was our first go at a project and we were very clear about it being a joint venture, which it is.

2. On the other hand, it was the Indian narrative that the Tejas program is an indigenous program etc etc. which is quite provably wrong with so many inputs from other countries as demonstrated through different posts in this thread.

 

[BON PLAN]

2. On the other hand, it was the Indian narrative that the Tejas program is an indigenous program etc etc. which is quite provably wrong with so many inputs from other countries as demonstrated through different posts in this thread.

They made a big mistake in developping simultaneously the frame and the engine. The engine failed and it impact the frame schedule AND the indigenization % .

 

[BON PLAN]

They made a big mistake in developping simultaneously the frame and the engine. The engine failed and it impact the frame schedule AND the indigenization % .

The right way would have been to study a frame around an existing engine (RR Spey? Snecma M53? Klimov RD ?) and only after an indigenous engine.
Linking the two was dangerous, specially with so few experience.

 

[Windjammer]

Trying to make up for the lack of intellect back home by calling us names or what may seem trivial in a globalized world as an embarrassment is only showing your bruised ego. Or simply the jealousy, why the country you mock and laugh at achieving so much while you're still riding the moped and Mehran we ditched nearly a decade ago. Where are the mard e momins who seem to brag how they're 10 times better than Indians, files 71 times fewer patents at USPTO. Is a point to ponder for you, and then and only then you a Pakistani of all people in the world can start mocking others for the indigenousness or lack of it.

And if Indian engineers worked in a US lab, does that make Tejas an American jet? What kind of logic are you trying to fly with here? That our engineers trained in the west so they helped in designing a jet somehow make it not ours? I like how you scanned Wikipedia articles know about the design phase and trying to fool the gullible fanboys, LM did not sell any FBW systems to India, neither did they design them, their involvement is only consultations and certification. Just because it worked you now credit its development to LM, Dessault etc... etc...

Similarly, the Kaveri engine design didn't take off simply because it had fallen short of the required thrust for the jet among other things. Let's say if we have made the engine work and generate 90KN thrust with Ab. You would credit it to Dassault, or Safran and the French who is involved in the consultation and certification of the engine. Unfortunately for us, we couldn't use Kaveri for Tejas. So do you credit the failure to Safran or GTRE in India?

India sought "help" from the pioneers of fighter jet development, much like any other country that wants to design and develop its own jets. French, British, and the Americans even some Israeli companies were consulted for the subsystems. So what? Are you saying we should reinvent the wheel?

Oh excuse me, didn't realise every one in India owns a Lambo or the least they settle for is a Beamer.
Just look at your rants habitually boxing above weight is in your genes....before mouthing off nonsense about Mehran or Mopeds, better look into your self if you even have a bathroom or run to the rail tracks.
I mean you spend most of your miserable life gloating on PDF only because it gives you some voice else like others you be running up and down some slum dog street shouting what you are. Lol.
And before pressing the reply button, first read and comprehend what is actually mentioned in the article, ''The Sad Tale of LCA''. You need to ponder on the fact that usually you lot keep telling the mirror that every Prem, Preety and Patil is making the world go around but every time you manage to put a nut on a bolt, why you start waving you arms in the air and your bench mark is Pakistan.
The jealousy doesn't come from a project which took some 30 years to become airworthy, while most aircraft after this duration near retirement, however, the heartburn is obvious when Indians treat their burns with such excuses that China never inducted the JF-17.....even though it's getting export orders and praises by sane minds around the globe.

JF-17 is not very original in its design also. And less indigenous. SO....

Spoken like a true Indian....even though you are ashamed to show your real flags.
No one in Pakistan ever claimed that it is indigenous.... anyone with a little knowledge knows that the pre-fix...JF stands for Joint Fighter.......Next Excuse....

 

[Chhatrapati]

Oh excuse me, didn't realise every one in India owns a Lambo or the least they settle for is a Beamer.
Just look at your rants habitually boxing above weight is in your genes....before mouthing off nonsense about Mehran or Mopeds, better look into your self if you even have a bathroom or run to the rail tracks.
I mean you spend most of your miserable life gloating on PDF only because it gives you some voice else like others you be running up and down some slum dog street shouting what you are. Lol.
And before pressing the reply button, first read and comprehend what is actually mentioned in the article, ''The Sad Tale of LCA''. You need to ponder on the fact that usually you lot keep telling the mirror that every Prem, Preety and Patil is making the world go around but every time you manage to put a nut on a bolt, why you start waving you arms in the air and your bench mark is Pakistan.
The jealousy doesn't come from a project which took some 30 years to become airworthy, while most aircraft after this duration near retirement, however, the heartburn is obvious when Indians treat their burns with such excuses that China never inducted the JF-17.....even though it's getting export orders and praises by sane minds around the globe.

Spoken like a true Indian....even though you are ashamed to show your real flags.
No one in Pakistan ever claimed that it is indigenous.... anyone with a little knowledge knows that the pre-fix...JF stands for Joint Fighter.......Next Excuse....

Haha trying to appear smart and all knowing while the the OP itself is a bunch of bullshit that shows how little you know about the topic apart from having a random pilot and a funny name in profile. As for me, I mostly take my free time reading and laughing at you folks, it's my favorite pastime since I found this page. It gives me comfort as an Indian, after all these are the guys who claim they're going to defeat us (not) . Mehrans and mopeds best describe you, you still live in a bygone era of prosperity where you had a very slight edge over India. But then again I can only laugh when a Pakistani take a toilet jibe despite living in a country who still couldn't eradicate polio which spreads through fecal to oral route, take your time to reflect on yourself about your situation when it comes to toilets.
Did you read Your own OP? Anything on the said claims? Probably nothing as you know nothing more than Jamming winds and posturing as all knowing.

And here goes, planes retiring in 30 years . What more should I say? And who said anything about the Chinese jets? No Indians would ever get heartburns hearing they designed J31 or J20s. As soon as there is Tejas Pakistanis descent on threads as if they designed and developed F-22. Get real, at least design and develop something that's worth a mention for 220 million people in any field. At least when someone asks what are the positive things Pakistan as a country is known for? You can answer a thing or two. In regards call centre, IT, that usually you people try to take a jab at us are not negative stereotypes.

 

[MH.Yang]

ugly.