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LCA Navy Gets Ready For Take-Off, Successfully Completes High Speed Taxi Ru

Maybe India should develop the AMCA as a naval aircraft right from the beginning, and then later modify it for land based operations, for two reasons. One, it is much easier to do that rather than navalising a land based aircraft. And two, the air force's needs will be met with the induction of the FGFA, and there is no pressing need for the AMCA in the IAF. But for the navy, it is a different story - the NLCA and mig 29K are not upto world class standards like rafale or super hornet, and they would need a 5th gen platform soon.
 
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Hope INS Hansa is ready before NP-1 trials
 
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we have seen that first product takes time while the next improved version take lesser time.

eg: ALH and LCH.

Wrong example, ALH had a high part of foreign JV partners and techs, just as LCH is just a re-design of ALH. LCA on the other side was developed alone and therfore went into delays and AMCA is a totally new development, not just a re-design.


Thanks for ur suggestion , but lt me tell you how development works.

Most N-AMCA components will be tested on N-LCA, Which will save tie.


Wrong again, N-LCA will not have a gear or the airframe strengthening required for catapult launches, only for ski-jump launches. N-LCA has no stealtgh design, so has less limitations in terms of airfame shaping. N-LCA don't have the problem of integrating a hook into the stealthy airframe, which by far is more complicated as people think, as we can see with the F35B and C now.
The fact is, there is hardly a real advantage in the development of N-LCA for N-AMCA, because both are simply too different fighters, that will be used on different carrier designs!


IAC1 and Vikadi need almost 60 machines. To have 60 operational we need at least 90 machine. Suppose in war/peace we lost 2-3, DO you think russia immediately provide MiG29K? To fill that gap we need M-LCA.

Check my reply to Indian Army, you hardly need 15 to 20 more fighters in reserve or for training reasons. That makes a small follow order of Migs more cost-effective and easy than the new development of a less capable N-LCA.
Secondly, Russia is not the US and is fully reliable in war times, not to mention that their production capabilities are higher than ours. So in a war time, buying additional Migs in fast production is easier and more likely than additional but less capable N-LCAs, especially when IN already states that it is just a modest platform.

There are many carriers which carry 2 type of fighter plane, Our carrier too will carry it.

True, but for different roles mainly, that's why I suggested Mig 29s for A2A and our older + 2nd hand British Sea Harriers for strikes. The procurement is cheap now, there is no issue with training or induction, the CAS performance to support beach landings is higher than with fast jets like Migs or N-LCA and they would be a good stopgap until N-AMCA will be available.

N-LCA is only meant to give our industry some knowledge in further developing LCA design, but all you need to do that are the 9 x N-LCA MK1 Tech demonstrators and maybe 6 x more Tech Demonstrators based on MK2 changes. There is no need to develop, produce and induct a limited capable fighter in numbers, when actually only a TD is needed see Gripen NG, Su 37 and 47, US X – Series, Israeli LAVI... Tech demonstrators.

If the NAVY is satisfied then it will increase the order from 9 to 46 (36 Fighters , 10 Trainers)
If they are not satisfied then you could probably see a token order for another 9-13 Aircrafts , to form a full Squadron + Trainers to replace Shore Based Jaguar IM and we will probably see a formal tender for 36-50 STOBAR Fighters for IAC1 , with Sea Typhoon , Sea Gripen and F35B competing

Repeating the same wrong things again, doesn't make them true somehow. IN don't want the MK1 version, because it doesn't fullfil their requirements for range, thrust or payload. That's why these are only TDs for tests and training, while "only" MK2 version will be operational.
And again, N-LCA is IN, Jaguar IM is IAF, so the one can't replace the other, especially because N-LCA MK1 is inferior to IAF LCA MK1 in terms of thrust, weight and maneuverability, that's why N-LCA MK1 will never be used as operational fighters at all!
 
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Maybe India should develop the AMCA as a naval aircraft right from the beginning, and then later modify it for land based operations, for two reasons. One, it is much easier to do that rather than navalising a land based aircraft. And two, the air force's needs will be met with the induction of the FGFA, and there is no pressing need for the AMCA in the IAF. But for the navy, it is a different story - the NLCA and mig 29K are not upto world class standards like rafale or super hornet, and they would need a 5th gen platform soon.

It worked well for the F/A-18.. it should work well here.
Naval aircraft have generally more demanding Airframe req to meet.
As is being discovered with the F-35C..
its better to set a higher target in weight and structural strength to meet..and then reduce it for a different version.
It would be easy as pie adapting a naval aircraft to operate from land, rather than the other way around.
 
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It worked well for the F/A-18.. it should work well here.
Naval aircraft have generally more demanding Airframe req to meet.
As is being discovered with the F-35C..
its better to set a higher target in weight and structural strength to meet..and then reduce it for a different version.
It would be easy as pie adapting a naval aircraft to operate from land, rather than the other way around.

This thing is highly impossible with current Indian policy. I never see India operating and maintaining 10 CBGs. So overall requirement of naval fighters will be less than 6 squ(4 on carrier+2 on shores) looking at current IAF strength India will definately concentrate on Land base version on AMCA. When it will come to induction after 2022 I think, all old Migs will have been gone MKIs will be old miraj long gone. Only FGFA will be there along with LCA mark 2/3.
 
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This thing is highly impossible with current Indian policy. I never see India operating and maintaining 10 CBGs. So overall requirement of naval fighters will be less than 6 squ(4 on carrier+2 on shores) looking at current IAF strength India will definately concentrate on Land base version on AMCA. When it will come to induction after 2022 I think, all old Migs will have been gone MKIs will be old miraj long gone. Only FGFA will be there along with LCA mark 2/3.

MKIs are not going anywhere by 2022. Most of them will be spanking new. We will only finish inducting them by about 2016, and they are expected to serve for 25+ years. Mirages are being upgraded to last another 15+ years (I have heard 25 years, not sure about that). Both will be there in 2022. Even the mig 29s will be serving at that time, since we are upgrading them now. Without those also, we are looking at FGFA+MKI+LCA+RAFALE for sure, all of them brand new. The 5 to 12 year old MKIs will be the oldest fighters in the IAF at that time, from among these four. The other three havent even been inducted yet. That is why I said that the AMCAs have no urgent role to play in the IAF.

OTOH the navy will be having less than optimal Mig 29Ks as their premier fighter. Which is why the navy would be more interested in an AMCA, to serve along with the 29Ks. The navy would not have very serious power projection capability without that. What role the NLCA would do remains to be seen, there seems to be two opinions on that.
 
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This thing is highly impossible with current Indian policy. I never see India operating and maintaining 10 CBGs. So overall requirement of naval fighters will be less than 6 squ(4 on carrier+2 on shores) looking at current IAF strength India will definately concentrate on Land base version on AMCA. When it will come to induction after 2022 I think, all old Migs will have been gone MKIs will be old miraj long gone. Only FGFA will be there along with LCA mark 2/3.

You dont need to have CVBG's..
the point is to have a common fighter that is easily adaptable to both.
The IAF can take this Naval AMCA.. strip it off unnecessary things.. and make it their own.
 
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Celebrations After LCA Navy First Flight

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MoD Statement: The indigenously built Light Combat Aircraft Tejas LCA Navy NP1 today made its maiden flight in Bangalore when Commodore JA Maolankar, Test Pilot and Wg Cdr Prabhu, Flight Test Engineer completed a 22 minutes flight. During the flight the aircraft was put through various manoeuvers including low speed handling and even undertook a close formation flying at slow speed with another aircraft.

Earlier the LCA Navy NP1 had completed various intensive Ground testing regimen including Low Speed Taxi Trials (LSD), High Speed Taxi Trials (HSD), Ground Vibration Test (GVT), Structural Coupling Test (SCT) and extensive system integration tests with power plant using State-of-the-Art facilities at Bangalore HAL airport.

With this India has crossed a major milestone in Design, Development, Manufacturing and Testing of a “four plus” generation Carrier Borne Fly-by-Wire STOBAR aircraft.

LCA Navy aircraft is the first attempt in the country to provide a complete marine force multiplier that will give unique battle punch to the Naval Aviation Arm of the 21st Century to fulfil national dream of a blue water Navy. LCA Navy is the second STOBAR (Ski Take Off But Arrested Recovery) Carrier Borne aircraft in the world, after the Russian deck based aircraft. However, this will be the only Carrier borne Fighter aircraft in the Light category.

Along with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) who are the Principal Partners with Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in association with more than 100 agencies ranging from users, DRDO, CEMILAC, DGAQA, CSIR, PSUs, Private Industrial Sector and academia, spread all over India including Indian Navy and Indian Air Force are involved in the Programme. The key responsibility of LCA Navy design, build, integration and testing is with various Divisions of HAL. ADE has played a lead role in Design and Development of the Integrated Flight Control System in unison with NAL, Bangalore for Testing and Integration of Flight Control Laws to ensure safe functionalities for various phases of flight. AMAGB has been designed and manufactured by CVRDE, Chennai up-to the certification level. NSTL, Visakhapatnam and RCI, Hyderabad has rendered critical support for shock testing of LRUs. Significant Private Industry partnership with ASL (DRDO), Hyderabad for high energy Carbon-Carbon brake pads, and CADES for LEVCON and stub wing design, as examples, has helped maturing of Private Sector of the country. This Project will give us self reliance capability in a true sense and also help in taking up more Naval Aircraft Projects in future. Productionisation of indigenously developed Hydraulic system and Fuel system Line Replacement Units (LRUs) have been assigned to GTTC, Bangalore (Government Tool Room and Training Centre) and CTTC (Centre Tool Room and Training Centre), Bhubaneswar respectively. Above all this, constant support, regular participation, keen observation and continuous guidance from CEMILAC and DGAQA have ensured stringent certification and quality requirements are met on the aircraft.

The Design of first indigenous Naval aircraft imposed huge technological challenges to the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) to meet the peculiar requirements of Naval aircraft; starting from saline and humid environment of operation, restricted availability of deck run for launch and recovery and high operating load conditions. Basic design changes required to suit the carrier operations are strengthening of aircraft structure and Landing Gear, Arrester Hook, improved engine, enhanced aerodynamic performance and incorporation of special metal/material. A host of other systems like the Leading Edge Vortex Control (LEVCON) surface fitted at the front end of the aircraft wing operated by a concealed rotary actuator with aerodynamic profiling to ensure low landing speed, good controllability and better vision for the pilot. The feature of launch and recovery onboard Carrier at high sink rate of 7.1 rn/sec, flareless landing with engine to full throttle till arrested by deck cable impose five times of loading on Main Landing Gear as compared to the IAF version. Also such axial load calls for re-certification of all Line Replacement Units (LRUs), components and associated systems of naval version to ensure fail safe operation repeatedly.

ADA has set a world class Telemetry and Monitoring facility at the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) to enable conduct of flight test activities at Bangalore. Intuitive on-line monitoring and control of the aircraft are carried out by the Test Director and various System designers. To facilitate proving the aircraft for carrier borne applications, a Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) is being set up at the Naval Air Station, Goa replicating an aircraft carrier with a ski-jump for launch and arresting gear for deck recovery. Take off area is ready, with landing readiness scheduled for end of 2012. This test facility readiness is as per schedule.

The Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Nirmal Verma in a communication to the Scientific Adviser to the Raksha Mantri, said, “… I express my appreciation and congratulations to all members of the ADA, HAL and DRDO teams for the first successful limited test flight of the LCA (Navy) aircraft… We must ensure that today’s accomplishment leads to the timely fructification of the operational requirements for carrier borne operations….”
 
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1. we all know what naval planes are and what we will learn from LCA. I agree AMCA is different plane but won't agree tht LCA experience will not be useful.
2. though AMCA is different generation plane but still it will follow basic principles like fuel dumping, asserted recovery, strengthen fusalage, avionics , display, leccons and many more. LCA can give these tech to AMCA.
3. you assumption that 5th gen subsystem can not be tested on 4 gen is wrong. 5th gen can borrow tech from 4th gen fighter. Russia tested many subsystem on 4th gen only.
 
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Building quality looks good. :) Rafale alike


Livefist

MoD Statement:

The indigenously built Light Combat Aircraft Tejas LCA Navy NP1 today made its maiden flight in Bangalore when Commodore JA Maolankar, Test Pilot and Wg Cdr Prabhu, Flight Test Engineer completed a 22 minutes flight. During the flight the aircraft was put through various manoeuvers including low speed handling and even undertook a close formation flying at slow speed with another aircraft.

Earlier the LCA Navy NP1 had completed various intensive Ground testing regimen including Low Speed Taxi Trials (LSD), High Speed Taxi Trials (HSD), Ground Vibration Test (GVT), Structural Coupling Test (SCT) and extensive system integration tests with power plant using State-of-the-Art facilities at Bangalore HAL airport.

With this India has crossed a major milestone in Design, Development, Manufacturing and Testing of a “four plus” generation Carrier Borne Fly-by-Wire STOBAR aircraft.

LCA Navy aircraft is the first attempt in the country to provide a complete marine force multiplier that will give unique battle punch to the Naval Aviation Arm of the 21st Century to fulfil national dream of a blue water Navy. LCA Navy is the second STOBAR (Ski Take Off But Arrested Recovery) Carrier Borne aircraft in the world, after the Russian deck based aircraft. However, this will be the only Carrier borne Fighter aircraft in the Light category.

Along with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) who are the Principal Partners with Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in association with more than 100 agencies ranging from users, DRDO, CEMILAC, DGAQA, CSIR, PSUs, Private Industrial Sector and academia, spread all over India including Indian Navy and Indian Air Force are involved in the Programme. The key responsibility of LCA Navy design, build, integration and testing is with various Divisions of HAL. ADE has played a lead role in Design and Development of the Integrated Flight Control System in unison with NAL, Bangalore for Testing and Integration of Flight Control Laws to ensure safe functionalities for various phases of flight. AMAGB has been designed and manufactured by CVRDE, Chennai up-to the certification level. NSTL, Visakhapatnam and RCI, Hyderabad has rendered critical support for shock testing of LRUs. Significant Private Industry partnership with ASL (DRDO), Hyderabad for high energy Carbon-Carbon brake pads, and CADES for LEVCON and stub wing design, as examples, has helped maturing of Private Sector of the country. This Project will give us self reliance capability in a true sense and also help in taking up more Naval Aircraft Projects in future. Productionisation of indigenously developed Hydraulic system and Fuel system Line Replacement Units (LRUs) have been assigned to GTTC, Bangalore (Government Tool Room and Training Centre) and CTTC (Centre Tool Room and Training Centre), Bhubaneswar respectively. Above all this, constant support, regular participation, keen observation and continuous guidance from CEMILAC and DGAQA have ensured stringent certification and quality requirements are met on the aircraft.

The Design of first indigenous Naval aircraft imposed huge technological challenges to the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) to meet the peculiar requirements of Naval aircraft; starting from saline and humid environment of operation, restricted availability of deck run for launch and recovery and high operating load conditions. Basic design changes required to suit the carrier operations are strengthening of aircraft structure and Landing Gear, Arrester Hook, improved engine, enhanced aerodynamic performance and incorporation of special metal/material. A host of other systems like the Leading Edge Vortex Control (LEVCON) surface fitted at the front end of the aircraft wing operated by a concealed rotary actuator with aerodynamic profiling to ensure low landing speed, good controllability and better vision for the pilot. The feature of launch and recovery onboard Carrier at high sink rate of 7.1 rn/sec, flareless landing with engine to full throttle till arrested by deck cable impose five times of loading on Main Landing Gear as compared to the IAF version. Also such axial load calls for re-certification of all Line Replacement Units (LRUs), components and associated systems of naval version to ensure fail safe operation repeatedly.

ADA has set a world class Telemetry and Monitoring facility at the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) to enable conduct of flight test activities at Bangalore. Intuitive on-line monitoring and control of the aircraft are carried out by the Test Director and various System designers. To facilitate proving the aircraft for carrier borne applications, a Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) is being set up at the Naval Air Station, Goa replicating an aircraft carrier with a ski-jump for launch and arresting gear for deck recovery. Take off area is ready, with landing readiness scheduled for end of 2012. This test facility readiness is as per schedule.

The Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Nirmal Verma in a communication to the Scientific Adviser to the Raksha Mantri, said, “… I express my appreciation and congratulations to all members of the ADA, HAL and DRDO teams for the first successful limited test flight of the LCA (Navy) aircraft… We must ensure that today’s accomplishment leads to the timely fructification of the operational requirements for carrier borne operations….”

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The N-LCA does actually look like a pocket Mifale(rafale and mirage :lol:)...
And does live up to its intended light combat aircraft moniker..
Although I think that the chute will eventually be deleted on the production version.. no need for it on board a ship.
better to house some electronic systems in there.
 
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1. we all know what naval planes are and what we will learn from LCA. I agree AMCA is different plane but won't agree tht LCA experience will not be useful.
2. though AMCA is different generation plane but still it will follow basic principles like fuel dumping, asserted recovery, strengthen fusalage, avionics , display, leccons and many more. LCA can give these tech to AMCA.
3. you assumption that 5th gen subsystem can not be tested on 4 gen is wrong. 5th gen can borrow tech from 4th gen fighter. Russia tested many subsystem on 4th gen only.


Who was talking about subsystems? I even stated that radar, avionics and engines might be common, but that has nothing to do with the naval re-design and changes, because these are different, because of the different design and operational requirements of N-LCA and N-AMCA.
Indian industry will learn from N-LCA for sure and that is good, but it won't have the benefit for N-AMCA development like you believe and we don't need to induct numbers of N-LCA for this learning, Tech Demonstrators are more than enough!
 
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Although I think that the chute will eventually be deleted on the production version.. no need for it on board a ship. better to house some electronic systems in there.

It will be deleted for sure, what many of my fellow Indian bros are missing during the celebrations, is the fact that this is nothing else than an IAF twin seat LCA with LEVCONS and new gears. It has no hook, airframe strengthenings? It also has not the changes of LSP 7 that recently made it's first flight (check the APU).
This TD might be used for skijump tests from INS HANSA, testing LEVCONS and probably even basic gear tests, but is not build to test arrested carrier landings yet. So we will see more prototypes / TDs with other changes later and this doesn't really mean much (other than some PR for DRDO and ADA, guess who were the first to shake the hand of the pilot :azn:).
 
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