Last resort?: Improve services or face privatisation, minister tells PIA

[Awesome]

And they get their jobs back, is this not what they did recently with fia, fbr, fde and IB.....

That's what I was hinting at. They made partially privatized organizations pay the salaries of all the people who were laid off during privatization in 2000. 10 years on the people were well past their retirement age.

They got salaries from 2000 onwards, even though they didn't work at that time. They even got salaries according to promotions and increments they would have received.

Investors left these organizations or minimized their shares before it happened. Jiay Bhutto!

From the title is appears that Privatisation is being made to look like a threat.

Which is wrong.

PIA is highly overstaffed, privatization would mandate laying off 60% of the workforce. It won't make sense to any businessman. Currently people have jobs when they don't have a specific need for them.

 

[imiakhtar]

The top of the line arab airlines, were erected and managed by Ex-PIA professionals.

That's incorrect.

Maurice Flanagan (Sir), Tim Clarke, Bin Maktoum, "Baker the Snake" of Qatar, Hogan of Etihad (most important characters) have never worked for PIA.

Who are these ex-PIA maestros you are referring to?

PIA is not a pain, only its maintainance department is generating good amount of money as told my my uncle who works there as an engineer

there is a hole in PIA's pot, its still making profits

That was only the case a few years ago when Orient Thai Airways awarded PIA engineering with a contract to overhaul the 747 classics. It was a one-off and they never came back for more. PIA engineering is the first part that needs to be cut off and out-sourced.

That's a big misconception. The biggest misconception rather.

PIA planes are not unsafe. Far from it. They interior may be poorly looked after, the trays might be dirty, seats might be torn, galley might be full of spills, but the plane (the flying thing) is not unsafe. The engines, wings, hydraulics etc do the job they are supposed to do.

The thought of being unsafe comes to you because when you look at the plane, you see dirt and problems with the upholstery, I reckon you've never visited PIA engg.

How many PIA incidents can you recall?

The problem with PIA is not safety, it is of management. The corruption, sifarish, mishandling of funds etc.

I understand that this is a Pakistani dominated forum but that doesn't mean we should let our national bias and pride get in the way of the truth. There are so many inaccuracies in this post, I shall have to address them separately one by one.

Poor maintenance in PIA is not a misconception.

Fact - The ill-fated Fokker crash in 2006 was triggered by an engine failure which was caused directly by poor maintenance practices (read the accident report, it's on the pakistan CAA website. Said report also makes a damning read concerning the poor flying standards and inadequacy of Pakistani pilot training. After all, twin engined aircraft are designed to fly with an engine cut at or post V1)

Fact - The B777 emergency evacuation a few years ago at Manchester after a brake fire was caused by maintenance using a cheaper and unapproved wheel grease. (report can be found on the uk aaib website)

Fact - An Airbus A300-B4(?) was written off about 10 years ago in UAE after a high speed rejected take off after a catastrophic tyre failure. The GCAA investigation found that the tyres had not been maintained to the manufacturer's requirements. Had it not been for the very long runways, PIA could very easily have had a high speed runway excursion.

Fact - A PIA 777 was boarded and a level 3 SAFA inspection carried out in the EU with PIA being served a notice to improve the condition of their aircraft just a few months ago.

Those are incidents just from the top of my head. I haven't even started on the previous PIA blacklist yet

The problem with PIA is less to do with corruption and more to do with politics. Everything from a 1kg bag of sugar to a 777 simulator is tendered in a transparent manner on both the ppra and piac websites in addition to english and urdu daily newspapers.. The results of the tender bids are also posted in the same locations.

you are so right.

I am with you on this.

Sometimes I think PIA maintenance department should be turned into a separate company (semi-private most likely).

This company has enough expertise to become a major service provider for all the boeing planes in the region including UAE.

You should read the financial reports of pia available on Pakistan International Airlines - Great People to Fly With. PIA engineering hasn't been in the black for a while now.

Also, PIA engineering capabilities belong to a motley mix of classical aircraft. The bulk of their expertise is in maintaining 747 classics, 737 classics and A300/A310s along with the associated engines. PIA is slowly improving it's capabilities by adding the 777 to that list. However, the big ticket item on the 777, the GE-90 can not be overhauled by PIA and as such has to be broken down and shipped out.

Taking the above capabilities into consideration, why would any of the reputable airlines in the mid-east go to PIA for their maintenance when they have far more reliable in house or out-sourced engineering contracts?

Those restrictions were due to pilot flying hours and other stuff like that...the only plane which was deemed unsafe was the Boeing 747.

Once again you are wrong. In addition to the 747s, six of the A310s (I believe the Pratt and Whitney birds) were also blacklisted and banned.

The EU blacklist was triggered by unsatisfactory ramp inspections. These ramp inspections revealed large gaps in aircraft maintenance logs

As a result of the black list, PIA had to invest heavily in their maintenance including a programmer to track the A310 fleet logs

Only Emirates has the guts to deploy A380 on the shorter routes...no one else does it.

Wrong again. Thai, Malaysian, Singaporean and Korean A380s are currently scheduled on short regional routes in south-east Asia.

 

[darkinsky]

That was only the case a few years ago when Orient Thai Airways awarded PIA engineering with a contract to overhaul the 747 classics. It was a one-off and they never came back for more. PIA engineering is the first part that needs to be cut off and out-sourced.

lol dude why are you suddenly spewing bull crap? yes PIA maintenance department is a profiting part of PIA and i know this because my uncle himself work there

no need to get upset and frustrated over it dear

 

[imiakhtar]

yes PIA maintenance department is a profiting part of PIA and i know this because my uncle himself work there

There is nothing in the current financial statements available at : PIA - Corporate Reports which supports your statement. As the one who made the claim, the onus is on you to provide the evidence to back it up. What your chacha says, whom none of us know, does not count.

Furthermore, I failed to mention it earlier, but the employess and therefore by default the unions that represent them (PALPA etc) are obviously going to be in favour of this cancer continuing to feed. After all, their jobs are at stake.

We hear the same cries everywhere in the aviation industry when jobs are at risk and outsourcing is mentioned. You only need to look at how low the Qantas engineers went when they claimed that the Rolls-Royce Trent 900 blew up due to Qantas outsourcing maintenance to various sub-contractors.

no need to get upset and frustrated over it dear

?

 

[darkinsky]

There is nothing in the current financial statements available at : PIA - Corporate Reports which supports your statement. As the one who made the claim, the onus is on you to provide the evidence to back it up. What your chacha says, whom none of us know, does not count.

Furthermore, I failed to mention it earlier, but the employess and therefore by default the unions that represent them (PALPA etc) are obviously going to be in favour of this cancer continuing to feed. After all, their jobs are at stake.

We hear the same cries everywhere in the aviation industry when jobs are at risk and outsourcing is mentioned. You only need to look at how low the Qantas engineers went when they claimed that the Rolls-Royce Trent 900 blew up due to Qantas outsourcing maintenance to various sub-contractors.



?

lol, to protect their own jobs they will say that PIA is in a loss, my uncle has never said that PIA is running in a profit, he just mentioned that the maintainance department is running in the profit, and he also said, even if the entire PIA is closed down, its maintainance department will keep running on profits

and he has simply no reason for lying, lying without a reason

i fail to understand your logic of 'defending this cancer because their jobs are at stake, its not like they are coming to the media and yelling that PIA department is running in a loss

its not like his boss is gonna fire him for exposing evil PIA sitting on a dinner table communicating with us?

and my first hand source is much better and credible then you searching some stats thing on the internet

you are living in London and my uncle is working there, he is more credible then a guy living thousands of miles away in London

BTW were you fired from PIA by any chance?

 

[Jango]

Wrong again. Thai, Malaysian, Singaporean and Korean A380s are currently scheduled on short regional routes in south-east Asia.

The maintenance thing that I talked about was meant to show that PIA planes aren't going to fall off any time they are in the air. I know about all the incidents that you posted.

As for the A380 thing, that is a new fact for me. Thanks.

And for the top most comment that you posted in reply to hasnain regarding the PIA engineering thing, currently the EK Engineering department of the A380 has a Pakistani VP. SImilarly, after Europeans, Pakistanis form a major part of EK engineering and have a lot of folks in very senior positions. Most are retired PAF or retired PIA and working since years at EK.

 

[imiakhtar]

and my first hand source is much better and credible then you searching some stats thing on the internet

you are living in London and my uncle is working there, he is more credible then a guy living thousands of miles away in London

BTW were you fired from PIA by any chance?

'Searching some stats' ?

These are THE OFFICIAL Pakistan International corporate accounts audited by the most highly regarded consultants in the world (Pricewaterhouse, Deloitte, KPMG, Ernst and Young). You know, the very same financial statements and reports that PIA takes to show the Pakistani assembly during debates, the same accounts which are used to secure financing from international banks. They are not numbers which are conjured out of mid-air like a harry potter movie.

If there is anyone who is lacking credibility in this debate, it is you.

Fired from PIA? Why would anyone with a choice work for a joke of an airline? I prefer to watch this tamasha from the outside.

And for the top most comment that you posted in reply to hasnain regarding the PIA engineering thing, currently the EK Engineering department of the A380 has a Pakistani VP. SImilarly, after Europeans, Pakistanis form a major part of EK engineering and have a lot of folks in very senior positions. Most are retired PAF or retired PIA and working since years at EK

In the grand scale of things, these folks in the background you speak of have a negligible impact on the way the gulf carriers have advanced.

Remove any of them tomorrow and there will be forty people to choose from as their replacements. Remove Tim Clarke and his cronies and you'll be hard pressed to find suitable and qualified candidates to fill those shoes.