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Last Air Battle On This Day

Good lord, I just googled this name WJ mentioned: Hari Sinhji. And what do I see on the first page?
Another 2008 post by WJ which has the SAME scans 'Post Mortem ' by Fricker!!!
And in this post WJ admits that he has been sent this scan by email by somebody else!!
I wonder how many times will WJ be using these scans to buttress irrelevant arguments? Truly WJ, you walk a fine line between comedy and pathos!!!!! Go WJ, go! We are all your fans now:-)
If you can't make it to the call centers, then the best place for you is the circus, if nothing else, you will make an escape artist with a red nose and funny shape of shoes, let me beat you with your own stick, every one can see except obviously you that i joined this forum in November 2009, you are way out of touch buddy by alleging 2008.
Call this a knee jerk or saving face, but as the other member quoted, you are just damaged goods.
 
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This is what Google uncle shows us in the very 1st result page:
Who Won the Air War in 1971? - Page 7
Dec 22, 2008 ... Here is a break down of IAF losses in the Western front, ..... Oh, and one other source, Flt. Lt. Harish Sinhji, a Sirsa based MIG-21 pilot ...
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...orums/.../18071-who-won-air-war-1971-a-7.html - Cached

Now upon a second look, your reply is from 12-3-09. But if all you could come up with to reply to my 2 posts is a correction in date........your fame as a military genius of our times is well deserved and naturally grows exponentially! Heres wishing you a happy new year and hope to have similar classy posts from you all 365 days of 2011.

Talking about New Year, why are you still at home working on your super intelligent retorts? No partying with the ladies tonight? It must be 9.30 pm in UK now(assuming your flag is real). Last post of the day for me, see you in the '11.
 
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I am replying to Windjammer here:
The title of the post is "The Last Air Battle on this Day". I pointed out that this is not the only air battle on Dec 17th, 2 additional dogfights took place where PAF's 2 Starfighters were shot down by Mig 21's.
And i proved to you that at least one of your claim was just a progressive propaganda by your government
Because I rained on your parade, you went on a tangent about the superiority of one aircraft to another. What does that have to do with the 'Last Air Battle'? Nothing, of course.
Since it was hard to digest, you digressed to the cheap banter, as you are the foot print of the beast you detest, let me shove it into your face, in 1965 war, the first encounter between two F-86 Sabers and four IAF Vampires resulted in all Indian aircraft going down in flames, after which the IAF withdrew all it's Vampires and Ouragans from service, such decisive encounters prove which aircraft or air force is worth it's salt and PAF despite all it's shortcomings in 1971, proved it's worth and repeatedly met the challenge with even the most vulnerable assets and excelled.
Hence our worse took out your best.
You churlishly argued that Changezi died on some other day. I proved you wrong. Then your reply is that you cannot read English(to that effect).
I emphasised that i read elsewhere to the effect that he was shot down earlier during the war, it's you who needs to absorb what you can't comprehend.
You claimed that the Starfighter is a much older jet compared to the Mig 21. I pointed out that both flew in '54 and '55 for the 1st time respectively. Again, egg on your face.
Take a gulp and swallow that Beetle juice since you are spurting it all over the forum, here is a quiz, why is MIG-21 still in active service all around the world, while the F-104 has adopted the role of a gate guardian. ??

You called me a word you couldn't even spell. Yet you turned out to be the noob since you tried lying about the ability about PAF F-104's to shoot guns. Sorry, caught you fibbing again there.
And you, who are supposed to be much senior, instead of being realistic for once could only find comfort by blaming the inferiority of the Russian missiles, i guess losers exist in every age group. Just proves your mental age.
You recommended others to read Lal's book. I asked you for the opening line. Instead you forward me some page numbers. So you have basically not even seen the book in your life! And yes, I know that you have been copy pasting the same page numbers in other discussions. So rather lame to try the same con, IMHO.
I guess others by now know what a real noob is since Lal's book is not the point debate but rather the contents that matter, but hey for you, any port in a storm. Right. !!!
DG asked you a couple of questions but instead you scanned some pages which did not answer them. You might as well scanned your 1st standard report card alongwith your class photo.
What, the reflection is too gruesome to accept. ?? Posting a genuine article has indeed proved tangent to your verbal diarrhea.
Let me also remind you about your BS claims about the RJAF jets being caught out.
Basically, the crap lodged in your upper crust is oozing from every hole in your sorry structure, as nowhere have you proved any valid point to this argument, so eat it.
How do you reply to my questions? With a dictionary in hand, typing out comments about call centers in India? Please tell us what this has to do with my points or me?
Belive me, it's never difficult to have fun with a drama queen, In fact, i reply with a little hindrance, considering you, self admittedly are near your shelf life, and again it was your sorry self who desired to be rather a call center nuisance than some greasy finger alien.
Restrict yourself to the post in question: The Last Air Battle. Am I wrong in saying that 2 Starfighters were lost on the same day? Other than replying to this question, all other matter is just irrelevant.
The post in question was, an F-86 shooting down a MIG-21, while one F-104 may have been shot down earlier in the day, but nothing like the two that your wild imagination perceives.
All in all, any intelligent person will tell you that you have looked like a escapee from the pediatric ward. If you doubt me , ask some of your countrymen who are highly respected by all members of this forum.
Since debenture has settled in your self centered mind, let me beat you with your stick once again, check the credibility of your posts and the acknowledgement given to mine.
Let me know what the first line of Lal's book is. Do NOT scan any other books or quote page numbers:-)
The cage in the geriatric ward or rather in BR awaits you, since your BS revolves around only the book, let me give you a hint, the topic on hand is...... Last Air Battle On This Day.
 
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If India looses all war against Pakistan, Then Why BANGLADESH..???
:azn:
JUMMU & KASHMIR with Indian Colors????:azn:

If the Same credibility can you prove that Pakistan won India on Battles not Proxy????:devil:

hahahahaha...wow just wow.I am not a bharti that lives in delusional world.Where in the hell did I say that India lost all wars?? :hitwall:

Well,you are on defense forum but still believes that wars are like T20 match...one country must WIN :lol:

And to your question of Why Bangladesh :
Because Bengalis were ignored.West Pakistan made huge political blunders.Civil war created Bangladesh.Do you really think that Indian Army would've won East Pakistan if there was no Civil war (in Eastern wing)?????:wave:
 
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This is what Google uncle shows us in the very 1st result page:
Who Won the Air War in 1971? - Page 7
Dec 22, 2008 ... Here is a break down of IAF losses in the Western front, ..... Oh, and one other source, Flt. Lt. Harish Sinhji, a Sirsa based MIG-21 pilot ...
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...orums/.../18071-who-won-air-war-1971-a-7.html - Cached
Oops, the page could not be found, well, what can one expect from Uncle John suffering from.... Alzheimer.
Now upon a second look, your reply is from 12-3-09. But if all you could come up with to reply to my 2 posts is a correction in date........your fame as a military genius of our times is well deserved and naturally grows exponentially! Heres wishing you a happy new year and hope to have similar classy posts from you all 365 days of 2011.
Suppose a spelling mistake of noob would never ring any bells, which you adamantly quoted more than once, as i said there is a fine line between digressing and digesting, and you will forever be remembered for former and being another victim of propaganda Ingunity.
Talking about New Year, why are you still at home working on your super intelligent retorts? No partying with the ladies tonight? It must be 9.30 pm in UK now(assuming your flag is real). Last post of the day for me, see you in the '11.
Since you have missed the Indian band wagon, once upon time, Indian members use to PM each other in a ploy to corner me, and up to half a dozen would jump in, and when i see a soul of your ingredients making such an effort, damn i don't even feel a twitch in my .........
As far as the flag goes, my Indian student tennant, Sunita, will confirm the pole, and the user name may not be Pakistani, but hell it's neither Christian...... Doh.
 
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india has made similar claims abt shooting down pakistans starfighters - after 65 all 12 starfighters were lined up at masroor ab for the world to see and refute india's claims - in 71 yes the pakistanis lost 2 starfighters and the balance 10 a/c remained in paf service until the 80s when spares became a issue - the US never replaced any attrition losses due to the embargo - if one counts the number of starfighters claimed by india in both conflicts, one would have thought that paf had more than the 12 a/c delivered by the US.

finally all remaining 10 a/c are 'gate pieces' at various military bases including the paf museum at karachi.
 
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Wow, this has become pretty bitter.

What happened 40 years ago should be examined not for bragging rights by either side, but for lessons.

In WW2, the U.S. had a strong and capable fighter force. Throughout the 1950's, nuclear bombers became the focus; fighters (and pilots) were back-seat. The result was some dismal performance (compared to WW2 and Korea) in the Vietnam war. It was and is freely acknowledged, and the result of the introspection was the F-15, F-16, Top Gun, and Fighter Weapons School. This turned us around in both skills and technology.

There is no shame in being shot down. Even the best of the best...

Von Richtofen
Boelke
Yeager
Marseille

Many others... were also shot down. We should honor their service, and learn from it.
 
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Good lord, I just googled this name WJ mentioned: Hari Sinhji. And what do I see on the first page?
Another 2008 post by WJ which has the SAME scans 'Post Mortem ' by Fricker!!!
And in this post WJ admits that he has been sent this scan by email by somebody else!!
I wonder how many times will WJ be using these scans to buttress irrelevant arguments? Truly WJ, you walk a fine line between comedy and pathos!!!!! Go WJ, go! We are all your fans now:-)
Since you have resorted to Google now, let me sort you out. We are discussing a war which took place 40 years ago, what i posted earlier was in reference to the same scenario, it goes to prove that my source is authentic and what i said in post#58 is no different than what i disclosed earlier, that the "Post Mortem" article was sent to me by a contact, care to explain your cheap banter regarding this. John Fricker was a highly respected member of aviation journalism and his article are part of the history which was written soon after the war, suppose you are use to reading constantly updated versions from your end. Most of us were not even born when the 71 war took place hence one can only resort to the credible source(s) that may be available. In desperation to redeem your poor soul, you are resorting to Google for an individual again goes to prove what a bad looser you are and yet you walk into another lamp post.
 
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hahahahaha...wow just wow.I am not a bharti that lives in delusional world.Where in the hell did I say that India lost all wars?? :hitwall:

Well,you are on defense forum but still believes that wars are like T20 match...one country must WIN :lol:

And to your question of Why Bangladesh :
Because Bengalis were ignored.West Pakistan made huge political blunders.Civil war created Bangladesh.Do you really think that Indian Army would've won East Pakistan if there was no Civil war (in Eastern wing)?????:wave:

THEN WHO WON????? if you make a toss there is a winner and a looser... the poor pakistni like you dont understood the meaning of war...:hitwall::hitwall::hitwall:

If there is a WAR held there is a result its not a TEST MATCH to be DRAWN

I REALY BELIEVE If there is no flow of Bengalis into India there is NO WAR @ 1971...:victory:
If a thing is not happen then there is no result..:toast_sign:
 
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THEN WHO WON????? if you make a toss there is a winner and a looser... the poor pakistni like you dont understood the meaning of war...:hitwall::hitwall::hitwall:

If there is a WAR held there is a result its not a TEST MATCH to be DRAWN

I REALY BELIEVE If there is no flow of Bengalis into India there is NO WAR @ 1971...:victory:
If a thing is not happen then there is no result..:toast_sign

Kid grow up !!! :no:

You are little early in this forum. :lol:
 
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Wow, this has become pretty bitter.

What happened 40 years ago should be examined not for bragging rights by either side, but for lessons.

In WW2, the U.S. had a strong and capable fighter force. Throughout the 1950's, nuclear bombers became the focus; fighters (and pilots) were back-seat. The result was some dismal performance (compared to WW2 and Korea) in the Vietnam war. It was and is freely acknowledged, and the result of the introspection was the F-15, F-16, Top Gun, and Fighter Weapons School. This turned us around in both skills and technology.

There is no shame in being shot down. Even the best of the best...

Von Richtofen
Boelke
Yeager
Marseille

Many others... were also shot down. We should honor their service, and learn from it.

Absolutely true and I agree with you 100%. In fact Pilots on both sides were and are heros.
On a lighter note, I hope that you got a chance to see my post specifically asking experienced pilots such as yourself a question about flight gear!:cheers:
 
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india has made similar claims abt shooting down pakistans starfighters - after 65 all 12 starfighters were lined up at masroor ab for the world to see and refute india's claims - in 71 yes the pakistanis lost 2 starfighters and the balance 10 a/c remained in paf service until the 80s when spares became a issue - the US never replaced any attrition losses due to the embargo - if one counts the number of starfighters claimed by india in both conflicts, one would have thought that paf had more than the 12 a/c delivered by the US.

finally all remaining 10 a/c are 'gate pieces' at various military bases including the paf museum at karachi.


Thank you for this. For some reason that I can only call ungallant, WJ denies that 2 F-104's were lost in 1971, despite me giving names and dates. I hope that he will at least respect you in this regard.

About 1965, I am not sure I understand why you say no Starfighter should be claimed by the IAF.

According to KAISER TUFAIL's blog, John Fricker credited one Starfighter kill to an IAF Mystere. Tufail states that it is more likely that there was a mid-air collision. So at least one F-104 was lost in '65


I have also found a nice site which gives locations to 6 of the Starfighters doing gate duties. Here it is:
F-104 Starfighters of the PAF
 
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Thank you for this. For some reason that I can only call ungallant, WJ denies that 2 F-104's were lost in 1971, despite me giving names and dates. I hope that he will at least respect you in this regard.
You read me wrong, the argument was that 2 F-104s were not lost on the same day(17 Dec), I have repeatedly emphasized that PAF started the '71 operation with 7 F-104s and still had 4 to show at the end, meaning 3 were actually lost during the conflict, 2 in air combat on different dates and 1 to AA.
About 1965, I am not sure I understand why you say no Starfighter should be claimed by the IAF.

According to KAISER TUFAIL's blog, John Fricker credited one Starfighter kill to an IAF Mystere. Tufail states that it is more likely that there was a mid-air collision. So at least one F-104 was lost in '65
The F-104 is said to have flown through the debris of it's Mystere victim. hence the kill doesn't belong to the IAF.
 
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To Windjammer,
Wow, just wow! 4 long posts in reply to 1 small post of mine?

In no particular order:

If you think my search on Google is fictitious , try it yourself. Just type 'Harish Sinhji IAF' and see what you get: You, of course:-)

"The post in question was, an F-86 shooting down a MIG-21, while one F-104 may have been shot down earlier in the day, but nothing like the two that your wild imagination perceives."

How exactly do you know that it was 'earlier in the day'? I find your knowledge of that day's timeline fascinating. If you again choose to sidestep all that I write now, at least answer this!

I am the one who reminded you that the topic on hand is 'Last air......' You were the one who recommended that us so-called 'Nobes' read Lal's book. Will you at least now admit that you have never clapped eyes on this book?

" find comfort by blaming the inferiority of the Russian missiles"
What is this and when did I write this? Do not squirm your way out of this question, and point it out to me where I wrote this.


"user name may not be Pakistani, but hell it's neither Christian...... Doh."
Lastly, what is wrong in having a Christian name such as mine? Please do elaborate.
 
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