Lahore’s culture getting extinct in India

[FaujHistorian]

@JaCkdraws,

Ask a French about Paris,

this is how I see my fellow Punjabis feeling about Lahore.

In terms of culture, civilization, plurality, tolerance etc. Lahore comes up with top scores when compared to other cities "in the region".

No other city is rooted so deep in the history overflowing with culture and arts and what not.


Even today,

Us the Urdu Speaking people can go settle in Lahore with no issue. Noone will stop us from renting a house, or starting a business just because we are the Urdus, or Pashtuns, or Afghanistanis, or Sindhis, or Balochis.

I am sure there are similar cities in India too.

And I am sure people from those cities long to go back and be there.

You just gotta look.


peace

 

[Jaggu]

No one is "phasing out" the language of 80-90 million people when they are the ones controlling military, economy, bureaucracy, politics, and what not.

Only dispossessed people worry about their language to a point of obsession.

For the rest of us, every language is beautiful, and it can become our part "intellectually" speaking.


peace


p.s. All the shahi farmans of the Great Maharajah Ranjeet Singh were written in Persian. Did that aspect reduce his power, or military prowess? No.

p.p.s - Our community and our dear leader Altaf Mota chor Bhatta Khor are obsessed with language just like Indian posters from Bihar and UP.

Fauj Historian Jee, but Pashto, Sindhi, Balochi all have official language status in their states do they not? those language are taught in schools, have tv channels, newspapers dedicated to the promotion of those languages. As far as I am aware Punjabi language in Pakistan does not share the same level of promotion as other official languages of Pakistan. Even the Punjabi I have heard many Pakistanis speak who visit India is now very persianised due to Punjabis in Pakistan speaking Urdu. If this goes on, eventually within a few generations Punjabi language will be fazed out in Pakistan and replaced by Urdu.

In India too, originally Punjabi did not have an official status. It was due to great struggle and sacrifice that Punjabi language is now recognized as an official state language. Today subjects in universities are taught in Punjabi, news papers, tv channels promote the Punjabi language.

You have a point though about the kingdom of Maharaja ranjit Singh where Persian was given official language status and that at a time when even in the Mughal Durbar in Delhi, Urdu had become the preferred language over Persian. But one must also recognize the fact that at the time most of the population was illiterate and rural, so even if the ellite spoke Persian, still the vast majority of the population would always speak Punjabi, so Punjabi was in no danger of being fazed out. In modern times where the rural population is leaving the villages and moving to the melting pot of the cities, where Urdu is promoted, the language will eventually faze out or be diluted beyond recognition. This is what happened to many Punjabis in Delhi. After a few generation had settled down, Hindi was always popular and promoted, today the new generation can barely speak proper Punjabi.

 

[RangerPK]

I live in lahore. I heard lahore is called the heart of pakistan.

I also heard, or at least got an impression, lahore is called the heart of pakistan because cultures here mix together, and people who live and stay here get assimilated into it, thus it creates unity among people.

PS: i think lahore is for pakistanis regardless of their ethnicity, it is ours to enjoy.

 

[RangerPK]

Just an example of what i said. I think cokestudio was made in lahore,
Here is an example cultural fusion and assimilation


[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GuY-2sHJYhg[/video]

 

[Contrarian]

hence why some indian punjabi's, some in the UK who came from india, accuse the indian govt. of a sort of campaign to suppress the punjabi identity of sikhs - not what i am saying, what some are saying

How is that possible when Punjab is run by Punjab government, elected by Punjabi's.

What can Government of India possibly do to suppress Punjabi identity in a Punjab.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Lahore is the cultural capital and pride of Pakistan. Who cares about its influence in the neighbour country? The city of gardens has nothing to do with indians or india; I'm sure the OP meant no harm by posting this 'piece' but lets look to today rather than delve in the long gone past

 

[Aka123]

Just an example of what i said. I think cokestudio was made in lahore,
Here is an example cultural fusion and assimilation


[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GuY-2sHJYhg[/video]

Hey the song is nice. The beats are really good!! I guess have heard this song earlier in Coke Studio. Bdw is this song in Arabic ?

 

[Jaggu]

I think the article is mainly about the urban people of Lahore who had settled in other parts of North India. The rural population of Lahore that moved into India has maintained their culture especially the ones that moved to Amritsar and Tarn Taran districts where even the Punjabi dialect is the same as the Lahori dialect. So the Lahoris who settled in India could not be said to have lost much.

The Sindhi refugees that moved to India are probably the ones that have lost the most in terms of their cultural and linguistic identity. The other community that lost much are the Mirpuri Hindus and Sikhs who moved to India. They lost their distinct Mirpuri identity and assimilated into the Jammu and Kashmiri cultures. The Hindus and Sikhs that moved from Rawalpindi/pothohar region and settled mainly in and around Delhi have lost their distinct dialect.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

Hey the song is nice. The beats are really good!! I guess have heard this song earlier in Coke Studio. Bdw is this song in Arabic ?

persian/dari

 

[Aka123]

persian/dari

Ok! Is it an Afghan folk song ? That's what I found after I googled.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

Ok! Is it an Afghan folk song ? That's what I found after I googled.

The lyrics of the song include the word Sistan, which is in Iran.
Bibi sanam janem, anaar-e-sisstanem. My love, you are like the sweet pomegranate of Sistan.



So I guess it's Iranian folk song, Persian/Dari is also spoken in Afghanistan, so I maybe wrong. I used to listen a lot to Zeb and Haniya.

 

[third eye]

OP you should have included the author's name: Harjap Singh Aujla

along with the text of his essay.

And a reflection of an East Punjabi Sikh who longs for a close contact with his ancestral city.

Many of you do not realize this almost "genetic pull" that many E. Punjabi Sikhs have for Lahore. Too bad many Hindu Punjabis have lost it.


Based on the ground realities, Lahore is ready to dominate again. It has to.

It is heart and soul of Punjab and to some degree the whole of NW Indian subcontinent.

Partition of Punjab is only temporary, and as the author points out the links are being opened up again.

So the heading of this essay is a bit misleading if you focus on the last paragraph.

peace

I posted a link to the original hence did not feel the need to mention the author. However point noted .

Having lived all over India and spent the impressionable years in Delhi / N India I admit the 60 - 70s were dominated by those who came from what now is Pakistan . Now things have moved on .

As mentioned in a post above , the young in Pak punjab are equally comfortable with Urdu so are the young in N India. Understandably, the link with Lahore, Pindi, Multan etc was cherished by the generation which had lived there . To their offspring ,it remains a name only either in conversation or in colonies where they live Eg : Bahawalnagar .

The partition is not temporary but permanent . Lahore cannot lead any more for the simple reason that times have changed and development has changed everything.

Back then , in N India there were few centers of education which became epitomes of modern life & all things good. Young men were sent there for education based on proximity & family finances. To name a few going West to East - Lahore, Delhi, Agra, Lucknow, Allahabad & Calcutta.

Sentimental attachment to old things is natural but time moves on.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Fauj Historian Jee, but Pashto, Sindhi, Balochi all have official language status in their states do they not? those language are taught in schools, have tv channels, newspapers dedicated to the promotion of those languages. As far as I am aware Punjabi language in Pakistan does not share the same level of promotion as other official languages of Pakistan. Even the Punjabi I have heard many Pakistanis speak who visit India is now very persianised due to Punjabis in Pakistan speaking Urdu. If this goes on, eventually within a few generations Punjabi language will be fazed out in Pakistan and replaced by Urdu.

In India too, originally Punjabi did not have an official status. It was due to great struggle and sacrifice that Punjabi language is now recognized as an official state language. Today subjects in universities are taught in Punjabi, news papers, tv channels promote the Punjabi language.

You have a point though about the kingdom of Maharaja ranjit Singh where Persian was given official language status and that at a time when even in the Mughal Durbar in Delhi, Urdu had become the preferred language over Persian. But one must also recognize the fact that at the time most of the population was illiterate and rural, so even if the ellite spoke Persian, still the vast majority of the population would always speak Punjabi, so Punjabi was in no danger of being fazed out. In modern times where the rural population is leaving the villages and moving to the melting pot of the cities, where Urdu is promoted, the language will eventually faze out or be diluted beyond recognition. This is what happened to many Punjabis in Delhi. After a few generation had settled down, Hindi was always popular and promoted, today the new generation can barely speak proper Punjabi.

Valid point but on wrong assumptions.

Reality is:

-- Majority of Punjabi population in Pak Punjab is still non-urban.
-- Punjabi in Pakistan is not an issue because it is still spoken by overwhelming majority that dominates every sphere of the country.

--- Please do not compare Indian Punjabis as they are an island in the non-Punjabi Ocean, and thus protective of their tiny (comparably) culture.

-- Majority Punjabi always had persian and arabic influence for many reasons. Do not get too worried.



Bottom line: You cannot use Indian-assumption on Pakistani Punjab. The outcome will be incorrect analysis.


peace

I posted a link to the original hence did not feel the need to mention the author. However point noted .

Having lived all over India and spent the impressionable years in Delhi / N India I admit the 60 - 70s were dominated by those who came from what now is Pakistan . Now things have moved on .

As mentioned in a post above , the young in Pak punjab are equally comfortable with Urdu so are the young in N India. Understandably, the link with Lahore, Pindi, Multan etc was cherished by the generation which had lived there . To their offspring ,it remains a name only either in conversation or in colonies where they live Eg : Bahawalnagar .

The partition is not temporary but permanent . Lahore cannot lead any more for the simple reason that times have changed and development has changed everything.

Back then , in N India there were few centers of education which became epitomes of modern life & all things good. Young men were sent there for education based on proximity & family finances. To name a few going West to East - Lahore, Delhi, Agra, Lucknow, Allahabad & Calcutta.

Sentimental attachment to old things is natural but time moves on.

Borders will stay,

People will be allowed to mingle and trade across the border.

Thus effectively nullifying the bad impacts of partition.

Hope you understand.

peace

 

[third eye]

Borders will stay,

People will be allowed to mingle and trade across the border.

Thus effectively nullifying the bad impacts of partition.

Hope you understand.

peace

I wish this were possible. Given the amount of distrust & hostility , I cannot see it happen even in the distant future.

I'd like to see these places as they exist now :

http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/160223-lahore-old-pictures.html?highlight=

 

[FaujHistorian]

I wish this were possible. Given the amount of distrust & hostility , I cannot see it happen even in the distant future.

I'd like to see these places as they exist now :

http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/160223-lahore-old-pictures.html?highlight=

FYI. a lot of work is going on these days. I hate to list that all. But the projects will soon be complete and you will be see them as well.

In the days of google, just type your destination / point of interest and you should get more pictures than you ever want.

Thanks