Ladakh: No 'Deal' was Struck with China

[danger007]

@deckingraj : you are just looking at the chinese navy size... you are not counting remaining all things... such the problems with other navy's in SCS... IN will never think to go war with PLAN in SCS... how much assets they can move to IOR to fight with us... MIGHT always win? who said that.... having weapons is one thing, tactics is some other.... do you think PLAN is in position to move maximum combat ships to fight with IN?

 

[worldrna]

@deckingraj : you are just looking at the chinese navy size... you are not counting remaining all things... such the problems with other navy's in SCS... IN will never think to go war with PLAN in SCS... how much assets they can move to IOR to fight with us... MIGHT always win? who said that.... having weapons is one thing, tactics is some other.... do you think PLAN is in position to move maximum combat ships to fight with IN?
@deckingraj : you are just looking at the chinese navy size... you are not counting remaining all things... such the problems with other navy's in SCS... IN will never think to go war with PLAN in SCS... how much assets they can move to IOR to fight with us... MIGHT always win? who said that.... having weapons is one thing, tactics is some other.... do you think PLAN is in position to move maximum combat ships to fight with IN?

China and IN are both big contrys. We r neighbours. although there are some problems between us, we can handle them. just need time and good opportunity

@deckingraj : you are just looking at the chinese navy size... you are not counting remaining all things... such the problems with other navy's in SCS... IN will never think to go war with PLAN in SCS... how much assets they can move to IOR to fight with us... MIGHT always win? who said that.... having weapons is one thing, tactics is some other.... do you think PLAN is in position to move maximum combat ships to fight with IN?
@deckingraj : you are just looking at the chinese navy size... you are not counting remaining all things... such the problems with other navy's in SCS... IN will never think to go war with PLAN in SCS... how much assets they can move to IOR to fight with us... MIGHT always win? who said that.... having weapons is one thing, tactics is some other.... do you think PLAN is in position to move maximum combat ships to fight with IN?

i think both of China and IN should be calm down. we can't suffer a war

 

[Srinivas]

Call it delusion or whatever but do we have any other choice?? Irrespective of what China thinks we still should prepare ourselves for any eventuality...so there is nothing new.....b/w when you say we should act like a counterweight then you will have no choice but to act like a proxy....I don't even want to mention the fate of a proxy...I believe all we need is will and a stable Govt(cong/bjp anybody but with majority), rest we have everything to put things in place...

Proxy is a wrong word here. Modern wars are not fought by using soldiers, Hurt the Chinese where it hurts them most.

(i.e) Hurt them in Economic front, Japanese have technology and we have human resources, Combining both can do wonders like what Chinese did in their past decade.

Already Japan is shifting bulk of industries from main land China to India, Vietnam. Co operate with them and get their investment, establish Manufacturing units, this move will not only slows the Chinese economy but also makes India stronger in future.

Our wages are less compared to China and we have huge young population we should not miss this opportunity.

Most of the western nations looking now at china with suspicion, India should use this advantage and make sure we also grow as well.


The main target for China in this decade is Africa where they are vying for resources, work closely with France, USA there and slow them there(USA game plan).

At the same time India should not allow any bases in India as well as IOR close to India.

 

[worldrna]

Proxy is a wrong word here. Modern wars are not fought by using soldiers, Hurt the Chinese where it hurts them most.

(i.e) Hurt them in Economic front, Japanese have technology and we have human resources, Combining both can do wonders like what Chinese did in their past decade.

Already Japan is shifting bulk of industries from main land China to India, Vietnam. Co operate with them and get their investment, establish Manufacturing units, this move will not only slows the Chinese economy but also makes India stronger in future.

Our wages are less compared to China and we have huge young population we should not miss this opportunity.

Most of the western nations looking now at china with suspicion, India should use this advantage and make sure we also grow as well.


The main target for China in this decade is Africa where they are vying for resources, work closely with France, USA there and slow them there(USA game plan).

At the same time India should not allow any bases in India as well as IOR close to India.

Why always against China? Still remeber 1962 war? Just let them go!

For now, the most important thing is to make a happy life, to work, to make money , to build!

 

[Srinivas]

Why always against China? Still remeber 1962 war? Just let them go!

For now, the most important thing is to make a happy life, to work, to make money , to build!

Mate India always looks for a friendly China, it is you people who are violating border agreements and trying to bully us.

A stable neighborhood is also good for us since we need a decade to become self sufficient and become a strong economy.It is like China is pushing us into an alliance with already pis-sed of neighbors.

 

[Bang Galore]

buddy that is because we are inferior to them at this stage...When you say India-China century aren't you missing the rest of the lesser countries around you??? You are not missing China because they have arrived...Like it or not you can't miss them...they have beaten us hands down in almost all the areas...this is unfortunately a hard fact!!

What's you point? I'm not at all suggesting that India does not have much more to do as compared to China, all I am doing is simply pointing out that China has no interest, now or later of treating us as equals & seeking friendship on that level. We just need to remember that in our dealings with the Chinese or with other countries when keeping in mind. the China angle. Your points outside this context simply don't shed any light on the point made by me. I'm not even clear on what it is that you are arguing for. Is it your point that a friendship of equals is possible or that India must lean to accept a subservient position? Explain please.

 

[deckingraj]

What's you point? I'm not at all suggesting that India does not have much more to do as compared to China, all I am doing is simply pointing out that China has no interest, now or later of treating us as equals & seeking friendship on that level. We just need to remember that in our dealings with the Chinese or with other countries when keeping in mind. the China angle. Your points outside this context simply don't shed any light on the point made by me. I'm not even clear on what it is that you are arguing for. Is it your point that a friendship of equals is possible or that India must lean to accept a subservient position? Explain please.

Sure...My point is simple...China will not treat us equal till we break the status quo...and in doing that they are not doing anything wrong...since we also do the same to lesser countries...This is how the geo-politics work....

No never i would want my country to accept a subservient position...I would rather die like a King then to live like a slave...

Proxy is a wrong word here. Modern wars are not fought by using soldiers, Hurt the Chinese where it hurts them most.

(i.e) Hurt them in Economic front, Japanese have technology and we have human resources, Combining both can do wonders like what Chinese did in their past decade.

Already Japan is shifting bulk of industries from main land China to India, Vietnam. Co operate with them and get their investment, establish Manufacturing units, this move will not only slows the Chinese economy but also makes India stronger in future.

Our wages are less compared to China and we have huge young population we should not miss this opportunity.

Most of the western nations looking now at china with suspicion, India should use this advantage and make sure we also grow as well.


The main target for China in this decade is Africa where they are vying for resources, work closely with France, USA there and slow them there(USA game plan).

At the same time India should not allow any bases in India as well as IOR close to India.

Look whenever you want to extract out of a friendship be prepared to pay back in the same coin...If somebody is going to favor you for China then there would be some cost involved...Just bcoz we don't allow any base in here doesn't mean we won't become a proxy...Anyhow we have moved way out of topic here....b/w most of the stuff is anyways happening so let's leave it there!!

China and IN are both big contrys. We r neighbours. although there are some problems between us, we can handle them. just need time and good opportunity...i think both of China and IN should be calm down. we can't suffer a war

Nothing to contradict there...However to live in peace one must be ready for worst....our discussion doesn't mean we are itching for a war with China...but thnxs for sharing your thoughts....

 

[worldrna]

Mate India always looks for a friendly China, it is you people who are violating border agreements and trying to bully us.

A stable neighborhood is also good for us since we need a decade to become self sufficient and become a strong economy.It is like China is pushing us into an alliance with already pis-sed of neighbors.

We Chinese don't hate IN and we never want to bully anyone. Because u have prejudice with China?

Have u been china before ?
If u r in china , u will feel how friendly we are.
what we r think is how to make a happy life, not to threaten or try to control someone.This is China's deep thought.

 

[Srinivas]

We Chinese don't hate IN and we never want to bully anyone. Because u have prejudice with China?

Have u been china before ?
If u r in china , u will feel how friendly we are.
what we r think is how to make a happy life, not to threaten or try to control someone.This is China's deep thought.

Yes I know Chinese common people do want good relations with Indians, But your CCP actions on the ground are showing an opposite picture.

 

[Bang Galore]

Sure...My point is simple...China will not treat us equal till we break the status quo...and in doing that they are not doing anything wrong...since we also do the same to lesser countries...This is how the geo-politics work....

No never i would want my country to accept a subservient position...I would rather die like a King then to live like a slave...

Never said it was wrong. I'm pretty much of a realist on such matters. I don't preach about right or wrong, I simply don't look at things in that manner. Also unlike you, I don't worry about "king" & "slave", I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation as existing with the India-China situation. Just don't appreciate the muddle headedness in working on this relationship.

 

[Srinivas]

Look whenever you want to extract out of a friendship be prepared to pay back in the same coin...If somebody is going to favor you for China then there would be some cost involved...Just bcoz we don't allow any base in here doesn't mean we won't become a proxy...Anyhow we have moved way out of topic here....b/w most of the stuff is anyways happening so let's leave it there!!

It is cooperation and there is a thin line to walk here, if we can pull this one right then every thing will be ok.

US and Japan are also desperate to hold on to their hegemony. May be they are more interested in this cooperation that India. The recent developments and Shifting the US focus around China is pointing to that fact.

 

[worldrna]

Yes I know Chinese common people do want good relations with Indians, But your CCP actions on the ground are showing an opposite picture.

Our goverment just wants to make sure that China is safe. So does your goverment.

 

[deckingraj]

Never said it was wrong. I'm pretty much of a realist on such matters. I don't preach about right or wrong, I simply don't look at things in that manner. Also unlike you, I don't worry about "king" & "slave", I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation as existing with the India-China situation. Just don't appreciate the muddle headedness in working on this relationship.

Fair enough..However India and China are in a relationship because both needs to be in...If we look at the history and the unsettled border, i am sure you would agree that both have done a decent job...The borders have been relatively peaceful irrespective of the reasoning behind it...The level of engagement we have economically is amazing as well...

Now you want to call it a muddle affair then fine however it is not necessary to be either friends or foes...One can be normal(whatever that means) with pendulum sometimes swinging b/w good to bad...Like it or not at the end of the say India/China will be forced to learn how to co-exist bcoz neither can wish away the other...

As far as King/slave thingi is concerned last thing i would want, is to be called a netizen of subservient country..Too much pride to loose there!!

 

[deckingraj]

It is cooperation and there is a thin line to walk here, if we can pull this one right then every thing will be ok.

US and Japan are also desperate to hold on to their hegemony. May be they are more interested in this cooperation that India. The recent developments and Shifting the US focus around China is pointing to that fact.

I will repeat myself here...When you get favors be prepared to return them...If US/Japan are going to do any favors to you then there is going to be a cost..co-operation is just a sugar coated word put in there so that people like me/you don't go nutz...Secondly if US/Japan have hegemonic mindset then we must stay at arm's length...bcoz once China is check-mated then guess who is next in line?? anyhow i believe i have understood the theme behind your message...and hopefully you have got mine...so let's leave it there...

 

[Bang Galore]

Fair enough..However India and China are in a relationship because both needs to be in...If we look at the history and the unsettled border, i am sure you would agree that both have done a decent job...The borders have been relatively peaceful irrespective of the reasoning behind it...The level of engagement we have economically is amazing as well...

Look...I'm all in favour of engagement with China and I'm not in favour of rocking any boat. I'm not the jingoistic type & I would much rather that India & China work on a relationship that delivers to both. The only thing I suggest is to get into dealings with China with our eyes open & with an understanding of what China thinks, what China seeks, what we want & where & how we can work any issues out. Just don't want people spewing rubbish on emotional lines of great friendship, alliance against the west & the like. We need to work on what is mutually acceptable & where we have an issue be very clear headed on it. None of the sentimental humbug.