Ladakh: No 'Deal' was Struck with China

[kaykay]

and little hongpu is still not accepting that his 'armour division' run away.....@Hongpu aab rahne bhi do, tumse naa hoga..!! Lols

 

[janon]

What happened was that China tried to pull a fast one. They thought that their platoon waving banners would actually scare Indians away. Maybe they did their intelligence assessment on PDF, because in the real world, India does not take kindly to intrusions or incursions. Their all weather friend could have told them that.

China underestimated India's will. Plain and simple. They did not expect that India would be prepared to degrade relations for a small, uninhabited plot of land. But you see, this is the advantage of having an open society, a free media, and a government that is accountable to the people. Since the media cried blood over this incursion, the govt had no choice but to stand up to this attempted encroachment. They would rather let our soldiers fire and face fire, than let themselves be fired upon by their electorate in the next elections.

Come 2014, if the chinese were still sitting in their tents there, the UPA govt would not sit in parliament. They are answerable to their electorate which, although largely ignorant of defence issues, has self respect. The public mood during the Italian marines saga was that India should cut off multi billion dollar trade relations with a European power, rather than allow herself to be hoodwinked by them. The media coverage of this issue ensured that the public at large would have been prepared to degrade all relations with China, or even go to war, instead of allowing squatters in our territory.

The Chinese completely missed that factor. A funny little thing called Public Opinion, which is of paramount importance in democracies. Not being elected by the people, none of their rulers realized the effect of that wonderful thing on public policy, diplomatic relations, military affairs and everything else in public interest.

Let's not forget, they did not come prepared for war! They simply sent a patrol in, and kept them resupplied, in the expectation that that should be enough to send shivers down India's spine. If they had mobilized for a border war, then we could say that they were in it for the long haul. But given how they acted, sending in a small patrol and expecting India to start dismantling our bunkers and airstrips and infrastructure, we can only conclude that they seriously misunderestimated (yes, I know that's a bushism) Indian will and Indian mettle.

The Indian side must have made it clear that the intruders will be arrested or evicted if they did not voluntarily leave, and that India was prepared for the eventualities that may arise. Let's not forget one thing - Indian forces have been practising the two front war scenario, and all our recent exercises have been to validate those concepts. The MKIs have been practising take offs from one border and bombing the other and returning, as witnessed in the recently concluded "Exercise livewire".

What does that mean? Does it mean that we could completely defeat China in war? No. But it means that we can make it completely pointless for them to go to war against us. It means that we can make them pay a heavy price, and that any victory they achieve will be pyrrhic. And our negotiators must have informed them of our stance, that if the intruders did not go back, we are prepared to pay the price of evicting them.

China blinked.

The intruders packed their tents and went back.

All is well.

 

[janon]

Do this type thread still alive?? So small thing bring so many threads, may be India and China frontier army only come together and play card， and let media guess what they are doing

Is it really so small a thing? If japanese forces squat on your territory, would you be calling it "a small matter"?

 

[iam not greek]

Good to hear that. A big humiliation for Chinese and bigger for their cheerleaders

 

[Dillinger]

@ALL Lets not celebrate yet, reports were pretty clear that demands had been made regarding the dismantling of a forward observation outpost in Chumar, it can be used for long range observation of a nifty little road they've built..that's what had them going. While the reports state that the observation post was not dismantled the larger issue is China's recent "offer" for a troop levels freeze on the LAC. If accepted it would be contradictory to our interests. That's the real meat of the deal and will be discussed in any of the upcoming meetings- the question is will GOI give in or not.

 

[xuxu1457]

Is it really so small a thing? If japanese forces squat on your territory, would you be calling it "a small matter"?

That is disputed area, not belong to India or China, just as Diaoyu island, China and Japan ships and aircraft cross-patrol at "another's territory" every day, nothing new but both don't make any fixed biulding at Diaoyu island.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

High time India and China sit down and settle this border issue.

 

[janon]

@ALL Lets not celebrate yet, reports were pretty clear that demands had been made regarding the dismantling of a forward observation outpost in Chumar, it can be used for long range observation of a nifty little road they've built..that's what had them going. While the reports state that the observation post was not dismantled the larger issue is China's recent "offer" for a troop levels freeze on the LAC. If accepted it would be contradictory to our interests. That's the real meat of the deal and will be discussed in any of the upcoming meetings- the question is will GOI give in or not.

Are you sure about that? IMO, creating infrastructure in the border is our priority right now, not troop levels as such. China's big strength on the border is not its troop levels (They only have some border guard units), but their ability to bring in truckloads or trainloads of troops continously by road or rail. Even if we freeze troop levels on the border, but continue improving airfields and border roads, our own position would keep getting stronger.

The new airstrip seems to have riled them the most, because of its ability to handle C-130Js, and the options that gives to the field commanders, due to the reinforcement possibilities. They were also weary of our progress and intent to upgrade infra. There is no way that we are going to be cowed down into stopping any of that.

Once we have the mountain strike corps, and some road and air infra in place, we have nothing to worry about on the east. IMO, a troop level freeze is in the interest of both nations, to reduce expenditure. That is money that can be used elsewhere.

 

[sexy gun]

That is disputed area, not belong to India or China, just as Diaoyu island, China and Japan ships and aircraft cross-patrol at "another's territory" every day, nothing new but both don't make any fixed biulding at Diaoyu island.

The so called huge media uproar got more exxagerated if your were reading only pdf hosts !! Otherwise at no point any govt tried to cry hoarse.. The leaders of both countries one important thing that diplomacy will be given as many chances as possible before looking for alternatives.. !

I am happy that it got solved amicably

 

[janon]

That is disputed area, not belong to India or China, just as Diaoyu island, China and Japan ships and aircraft cross-patrol at "another's territory" every day, nothing new but both don't make any fixed biulding at Diaoyu island.

And that is precisely the issue. Indian and chinese troops often cross-patrol the LAC, and usually the patrolling parties withdraw after signalling each other. There is a mechanism in place to diffuse the situation, and both sides usually withdraw. But erecting tents in the disputed territory, and a banner proclaiming it to be chinese territory, and refusing to go back when approached, was an unprecedented act.

If the japanese or vietnamese or philipinoes had done that in one of your contested territories, would you still say it's a small matter? Especially if they refuse to leave?

So imagine that japanese soldiers did this in Diaoyu, and now look at it from India's POV.

 

[Dillinger]

Are you sure about that? IMO, creating infrastructure in the border is our priority right now, not troop levels as such. China's big strength on the border is not its troop levels (They only have some border guard units), but their ability to bring in truckloads or trainloads of troops continously by road or rail. Even if we freeze troop levels on the border, but continue improving airfields and border roads, our own position would keep getting stronger.

The new airstrip seems to have riled them the most, because of its ability to handle C-130Js, and the options that gives to the field commanders, due to the reinforcement possibilities. They were also weary of our progress and intent to upgrade infra. There is no way that we are going to be cowed down into stopping any of that.

Once we have the mountain strike corps, and some road and air infra in place, we have nothing to worry about on the east. IMO, a troop level freeze is in the interest of both nations, to reduce expenditure. That is money that can be used elsewhere.

We need both infrastructure and increase in troops. If we freeze the troops levels then the 2 mountain strike divisions and 2 armored battalions that we are going to introduce will have to be mothballed. Even the conservative estimate for the time period required for building the required all weather roads and rail lines is close to a decade. Till which time while the no, of men on the border will be the same on both sides...in an exigent circumstance the Chinese will be able to bring 7-8 division from the hinterlands to the LAC withing 24-28 days while we won't...to offset that we need the planned additions. They are needed for stabilization till the infra actually gets in place.

the CJs don't give as much of an advantage as people think- men you can put there but not sustained logistics in forward areas- which happen to be 50-80km grueling marches from areas like DBO.

 

[xuxu1457]

The so called huge media uproar got more exxagerated if your were reading only pdf hosts !! Otherwise at no point any govt tried to cry hoarse.. The leaders of both countries one important thing that diplomacy will be given as many chances as possible before looking for alternatives.. !

I am happy that it got solved amicably

Relax, if you see tents, that's means they want to tell you something, if you see some fixed building you should act; So at first when I heard tents that means they will remove the tents at last, nothing serious; Just tell another ones red line

 

[danish_vij]

Unconfirmed rumors.... one thing is certain..... this episode is not over yet

yeah how can it b over until http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/250074-great-asian-land-war.html

 

[Screambowl]

@ALL Lets not celebrate yet, reports were pretty clear that demands had been made regarding the dismantling of a forward observation outpost in Chumar, it can be used for long range observation of a nifty little road they've built..that's what had them going. While the reports state that the observation post was not dismantled the larger issue is China's recent "offer" for a troop levels freeze on the LAC. If accepted it would be contradictory to our interests. That's the real meat of the deal and will be discussed in any of the upcoming meetings- the question is will GOI give in or not.

But only those forward posts have been dismantled which have been put to counter Chinese intrusion, 300-500 m away.

 

[danger007]

big face palm to the troll, sad he didn't get chance to fire missiles on New Delhi from his nuke brigade...