Lack of aggression from Pakistan?

[In arduis fidelis]

Your approach does not target India as India always use third party to create terrorism in Pakistan. Why you want to create hostile in front and back at the same time?

See thats where my opinion differs you cant really go directly head to head with a nuclear power like India cant outright attack.
You go after the proxies so hard so fast you leave them trembling in fear. Develop a fear factor let no one acting on behest of India think they are safe.

 

[In arduis fidelis]

.

This is the kind of backwards logic that has ruined Pakistan.

Its not a logic its a personal observation.

 

[RedHulk]

If India can violate. Our air space so can we. We can also bomb some sand and blame it as terrorist launch pads . it just an illusion we need to create to create a fuss on international level.

See thats where my opinion differs you cant really go directly head to head with a nuclear power like India cant outright attack.
You go after the proxies so hard so fast you leave them trembling in fear. Develop a fear factor let no one acting on behest of India think they are safe.

 

[In arduis fidelis]

If India can violate. Our air space so can we. We can also bomb some sand and blame it as terrorist launch pads . it just an illusion we need to create to create a fuss on international level.

What will be the basis of your use of force against India?
Every terror attack in Pakistan is traced back to Afghanistan not India. You cut down their proxy and force them to come out in open and attack you openly. Once they do go berserk on them

 

[Aspen]

Don't cherry-pick popular Sun Tzu sayings without context. If you actually read his writing, he repeatedly drills-in the importance of patience and right timing. All PDF armchair generals wanted war ever since revocation of article 370. We instead worked to get friends, support and standing to get us to the current situation where India is trapped, red-faced, and friendless.

We have successfully done what India has been claiming to do us - isolated, surrounded and internally fractured. This didn't happen overnight, nor with us idling our thumbs angrily staring across the border. Our diplomatic machinery working persistently has effectively turned India's "allies" that it had gained by throwing its economical clout around - GCC, Iran, Afghanistan, and even to a certain extent, Nepal. Even traditional Indian allies like Russia, Israel and France are not coming in to help, other than taking advantage of the situation to sell more weapons.

Our intelligence agencies have been actively chipping away at India's internal unity, institutions and morale, while at the same time fighting them on our own land.

Our military has been constantly countering every hardware, strategy and defenses they procure.

We are already winning the war.

I agree but it is useless to do all this preparation and then when war finally comes you don't have the balls to finish it.

All the isolation of India, internal discord, and diplomatic pressure we have applied on India is useless if we don't take the final step and finish them out in a war with China.

It's like if you do all the training to become a fighter pilot but then you don't have the balls to get in the plane.

Pakistani society has become galvanized as a reult of 27 Feb, victory in Afghanistan, ally Turkish victories in Syria and Libya, and now ally China's victory in Ladakh.

All around Pakistan, a new paradigm is being established, but Pakistan leadership refuses to change.

Complacency, fear of the unknown, and foreign pressure have completely neutered us, even when all the correct pieces are in their right places.

We have begun to love dunya too much. We live on foreign imported luxuries while we hardly make any profitable exports to balance it out. We are exporting raw materials without proper value additions.

This state is in no shape for war, but the winds of change have come. It is a now or never kind of a moment.

I am not saying to attack India, but we desperately need to militarize our society. We need to prepare for the next war which is coming.

Right now our social and political malaise need to be rectified, Pakistan needs a cultural and religious revolution of thought and practice. Our society needs to be brought together and our divisions need to be ironed out.

Absolutely agree

To be honest, we are afraid of consequences.

Unfortunately right now that seems to be the case.

Pakistan desperately needs fresh blood, we need new bold and fearless leadership who is not afraid of a war.

Pakistan is blessed with the ability to wait it out. We don't have to attack now, but our people need to start preparing.

India does not have that luxury, they are fighting against the clock and against a mountain of issues which threaten the heart of their nation. They are desparate for war, because as time goes by, they are growing weaker and we are gaining strength.

Kashmir theater is unfit for proxies at the moment, as Indians are clamping down hard, so time to explore NE India, South India, Sikh Punjab, Hyderabad, and UP.

Use Indian doctrine against them. Work on influencing Maldives back to our camp, Sri Lanka as well, and establish some cooperation with BD.

Next, work on irregular forces. Recruit from KP, AJK, Punjab, etc. This is the one advantage where Pakistan excels. If we use the Qabaili Lashkars and Afghan battle-hardened volunteer Mujahideen, we could bleed out Indian forces very quickly. Even every Islamic organization should be furnishing these kinds of soldiers for Pakistan military just in case, similar to what Jamat e Islami did during 27 Feb.

Absolutely agree

We should start pushing our weight similar to our military power, just as China, Turkey, and İran do. I mean even India does the same.

Pakistan behaves like a much weaker nation than it is, hence even small states like Iran and Kabul regime get an idea that they can fight us.

Absolutely agree, Pakistan's unwillingness to project military power like Iran and Turkey gives a false illusion that Pakistan is weaker than it actually is. I think this is because of weak and afraid leadership that is afraid to get involved in any conflicts far away from its borders like India and Afghanistan.

Right timing
Do you think Sun Tzu would consider this a right time and an opportunity? I am of the camp that thinks yes

I think this is the best opportunity for Pakistan in decades to launch an offensive into Kashmir.

If India responds militarily to China, we must not waste this opportunity like all the previous times.

What Pakistan can do right now.
After any terrorist attack Pakistan should go belligerent on international level, the way Indian media do. Start blaming India out loud. Pay even international newspapers to publish articles how India is still funding terrorism in Pakistan. Create maximum drama. PM give final warning that its enough now. If any future attack happen will bomb India. Tell jets to invade India though just few kilometers. Drop few bombs in empty places like rajhistan. Show world we had enough of Indian terrorism. No need to convey messages in back door to countries. Say it out loud. Create maximum drama. Only after that episode world will start taking Pakistan seriously. No need to go on full scale war. After a month of so start funding out loud. Tell the world we will not stop this time. If any one try to reach diplomatically tell them we had enough. If USA or European try to pressure put counter pressure on them like Afghanistan deal will be in jeopardized. There are soo many things you can use against each country.
War is not solution for Pakistan. Anarchy and economic sabotage is the solution.

Absolutely agree

You go after the proxies so hard so fast you leave them trembling in fear. Develop a fear factor let no one acting on behest of India think they are safe.

Finally somebody gets it

 

[RedHulk]

No need to trace the attack. Just dop few bombs in desert. The way India start blaming Pakistan without evidence. You need to be more creative to create your narrative.

What will be the basis of your use of force against India?
Every terror attack in Pakistan is traced back to Afghanistan not India. You cut down their proxy and force them to come out in open and attack you openly. Once they do go berserk on them

 

[RedHulk]

Brother that is a Big IF.
Let's wait for
1. India china war
2. India attack us for face saving

I think this is the best opportunity for Pakistan in decades to launch an offensive into Kashmir.

If India responds militarily to China, we must not waste this opportunity like all the previous times.



Absolutely agree

 

[Silicon0000]

There could be a remote possibility of something else.

At this time US is not in a position to go for any big adventure so pressuring India and let her realize that no body gonna help you so it's better to settle things with China and stop anything towards Chinese Sea Claims and not become part of any alliance in that regard.

China is breaking one by one those who can be part of that alliance. Forcing India and neutralizing India factor and keeping India out of any alliance against China would be a big success for China.

Chinese are good in art of war.

PS: Possibly that's the reason Pakistan is silent.

 

[The Maverick]

Yeah because we have weak, timid, and afraid leadership who is too coward and spineless to take aggressive military action against India despite the need being both clear and necessary.

Maybe the understand that attacking a country 7 to 8 times our GDP is foolish . ESP if they have nukes and USA and the WEST and even Russia & Israel as allies to supply them . AND THE MONEY to buy spares

IM sure they would love too............ ATTACK........ but the response maybe brutal

 

[Crusher]

Title should be lack of aggression from successive governments and military of Pakistan.

Totally agree with you, this khassism that we see in the elites of the governments and military of Pakistan are certainly NOT the character of the people of the area on which these khassi regimes ruling. We have always been a people who believed in dignity, my mother used to say to me that "Izzat lakhin kororien vi nai labdi", "The self respect/dignity cannot be bought with lacks and crores of money", that is the mindset that I saw around the people I grew up in 80s and 90s. That is why I believe these coward khassi regimes that are ruling us are a left over of the illegitimate children of the British rather than the sons and daughters of the soil of these lands.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

It will be with a great struggle, sacrifice, blood and resilience if Pakistan is to defeat the monster that is the Nazi RSS, I just don't see that great human virtues in many of our beta sheeps prevalent on this forum and in our nation as a whole, where is the martial race? when did we fear the consequence of the unknown?, we are Muslim for crying out loud we fear no one except Allah SWT, we have faced tremendous adversity in the past and we came out on top against impossible odds time and time again without fear and we can do it again it is in our blood, become like Khalid bin Walid, Salaudin ayubi, Tipu Sultan, Syed Ahmed Shaheed instead of Shuja-ud-Daula instead of Mir Jafar.

Pakistan needs strong men and women.

Your post inspires me brother. Jazak Allahu khair.

We are a nation of ghazis (conquerors,) every inch of our soil is nurtured by the blood of our Shuhada.

As said in the Turkish national anthem, İstiklal Marşı, "Şüheda fışkıracak, toprağı sıksan şüheda. - Martyrs would burst forth should one simply squeeze the soil! Martyrs!"

@Hakikat ve Hikmet

I agree but it is useless to do all this preparation and then when war finally comes you don't have the balls to finish it.

All the isolation of India, internal discord, and diplomatic pressure we have applied on India is useless if we don't take the final step and finish them out in a war with China.

It's like if do all the training to become a fighter pilot but then you don't have the balls to get in the plane.



Absolutely agree



Unfortunately right now that seems to be the case.

Pakistan desperately needs fresh blood, we need new bold and fearless leadership who is not afraid of a war.



Absolutely agree



Absolutely agree, Pakistan's unwillingness to project military power like Iran and Turkey gives a false illusion that Pakistan is weaker than it actually is. I think this is because of weak and afraid leadership that is afraid to get involved in any conflicts far away from its borders like India and Afghanistan.



I think this is the best opportunity for Pakistan in decades to launch an offensive into Kashmir.

If India responds militarily to China, we must not waste this opportunity like all the previous times.



Absolutely agree



Finally somebody gets it

With people like us coming to the realm of affairs of Pakistan things will change. We grew up facing Indian terrorism in our neighborhoods, witnessing dead bodies littered everywhere, while our successive governments cowered in fear or capitulated to foreigners. No one was there to stand up for Pakistani people, everyone was scared about what US or India will say.

Who cares about the blood which Pakistanis lost to drones? US kept hitting us and our government kept making excuses and lying to us. Musharraf regime went out and hit any journalist who disagreed with the US WoT. N and PPP treated Indians better than Pakistanis. It was so bad that Kashmiris began to doubt our commitment.

Independence movements of Yasin Malik and Mirwaiz Omer Farouq went into overdrive to convince Occupied Kashmiris to make concessions to India for autonomy. Syed Ali Shah Geelani stood alone as the elder Kashmiri leader who refused to give up his belief in Pakistan.

Then Indians made Burhan Wani shaheed, young blood revitalized the whole of Kashmir, and again pro-Pakistan movement came to the fore again, without any help from Pakistan which was putting innocent elderly Hafiz Saeed in house arrest to appease India. Kashmiris proved they are more patriotic and tougher blood than we are, they pushed India to retaliate and hit back against Indian troops.

Pakistan stood back worrying about FATF and what it will do to tourism, investment, and Western sentiments while Kashmiris were being blinded, raped, tortured with electricity and whipped. Shameful.

Unless we are willing to suffer, die, and put everything/everyone we love on the line, victory will remain elusive. We need that Mujahideen spirit to revive us again, we need to be strong and view death as victory if it comes. What happened to our heritage and culture?

I have faith in my nation, a nation which has produced and nurtured countless heroes. I would exhaust myself in trying to name them all.

We will die for our religion and our country, every Pakistani will. We have done it in 1947, 1965, 1971 Western theater, 1999, and WoT.

We need to wake up and see with eyes looking upwards, not downwards. Awaken Oqaab inside each Pakistani.

Pare Hai Charakh-E-Neeli Faam Se Manzil Musalman Ki
Sitare Jis Ki Gard-E-Rah Hon, Woh Karwan Tu Hai

The goal of the Muslim lies beyond the blue sky;
You are the caravan, which the stars follow as dust on the road.

Tülü e İslam, Bang e Dara, Allama Iqbal

 

[masterchief_mirza]

our people need to start preparing.

Absolutely key this.

They'll always hate us.

Once Delhi collapses and India turns into a handful of smaller states, then all will be well and good. South Asia will become a harmonious place where Muslims, Hindus, whoever will all get along fine. The problem was never religion. The problem was the false construct of Hindustan that is burdened with its perpetual inferiority complex and PTSD from centuries earlier. It is literally hard wired into bhakt DNA and it cannot be undone. Lord knows we've tried. They actually think it's okay to hate us and everything about us, however innocent and irrelevant something or someone may be to their relentless sixth generation wars and perceived eternal grievances. Stuff the aman ki asha.

A paradigm shift is needed in our society. It is no longer ok for Pakistanis to regard Indian culture as something to aspire to or adore. Bollywood, desi-ness in general, following Indian celebs, our diaspora communities faking mutual love and what not - all this rubbish needs to go down the toilet. They ban, ostracise and condemn our artists and sportsmen for crying out loud. We have no shame? Our mentality must shift away from Bollywood, Indian-ness and Indian products. India will struggle to boycott China in a million years, but Pakistan can boycott India tomorrow if it actually tries. I'm talking to our diaspora folks more than anybody here.

Check the labels. Check the paperwork and audit trails. Find out who you're backing, whose pockets your filling. Unless they are bona fide anti-bhakt Indian (which is a minority - believe me), discard and seek an alternative.

The above is only the FIRST step of preparing for the final showdown. It's potentially the hardest because of how we've been brainwashed for decades.

As we've seen last February and just now in Ladakh, bhakt hordes are certifiably insane and deluded. You cannot convince them that the sky is blue if they've been instructed otherwise. There's no negotiating or reasoning with such a mentality. It can only be "treated".

The point being made though is that the treatment is long and arduous. It's not a quick fix. Our whole society must be geared up to supporting one another first and foremost, and dissociating from the bhakts who would exploit us and use us because we are fewer in number and hence easily isolated.

Elite Pakistanis in diaspora communities forget who they are because they spend so much time with bhakts, being brainwashed by their hate to the point that they disown and curse their roots. Some may laugh and trash my comments as conjecture and conspiracy, but if you pause and reflect, you know it to be true. We in western countries know many such people who - due to isolation from other Pakistanis - are lost to the saffron ether forever.

Then there are the ones back home, trying to make quick bucks off each other instead of driving Pakistan forwards. I know Imran Khan is amateurish and a flipflopper, but his underlying sentiments are well placed. People ridicule such sentiments out of jealousy or cynicism, yet such malevolent emotions debase and disrupt societies and even lead to the demise of nations. Without such sentiments as honour, discipline and respect for our fellow citizens as well as ourselves, we will continue to swim in the abyss of corruption, treading on the submerged bodies of one another just to poke our heads above water, thinking we are somehow "better" than the rest, when we're in reality just gasping for a miserly breath of air in a polluted sea.

We cannot prepare for any upcoming battle until mentally our nation has left the disunity and apathy behind and actually reaches out with both hands to grab its destiny.

Physical preparation is easy once the mental battle with ourselves and within ourselves is won.

We need to study the Meiji restoration of Japan, the Chinese cultural revolution of Mao, and Atatürk's economic/cultural ideas which made modern Turkey.

It should be deeply Pakistani and unique to our setting and faith. Quaid e Azam, Allama Iqbal, and Maulana Maududi did all of the hard work.

Yes, this is exactly right. A paradigm shift in society is needed!

 

[Baghial]

Lack of aggression from Pakistan?

Sun Tzu in his famous Art of War says, “In the midst of chaos, there is also opportunity.” The scope of this article is to examine as to why Pakistan’s responses to chaos within and around Hindutva led India - particularly concerning the purely self-defensive measures of China in Ladakh - seem listless and vapid and various opportunities, apparently, have been allowed to slip through.

Many fellow Pakistanis would disagree and quite rightly point out reasonable factors prohibiting Pakistan to take a more vigorous military approach. Some might even suggest a clandestine operation is already underway. Furthermore, a section might also argue that Pakistani involvement could portray India as a victim.

It is immaterial whether you agree with the title of this article or disagree with it. The question is hasn’t India done the same in the past against Pakistan? Why should anything obstruct Pakistan to simply return the favour? Just a reminder, at every point of time, India has used every opportunity to erase Pakistan’s existence. After failing to stop Pakistan’s creation and even failing to strangle it in infancy, India invaded, Junagarh while Pakistan was having problems with Khan of Kalat. It again invaded Kashmir when Pakistan was overwhelmed with countless refugees from Jammu fleeing massacre. Hyderabad’s invasion, days after Mr. Jinnah’s death, is a prime example. Again India in 1950 set out to “Liquidate” the young Pakistan as Afghanistan was conducting military raids inside Pakistani territory. 1950-54 was possibly the most dangerous period of Pakistani history. Consequently, Pakistan had no choice, but to go for SEATO and CENTO. (A reply to absolute vacuous minded imbeciles who vociferously criticize Pakistan of being a US lackey).

In the 60s, constant raids in Azad Kashmir and East Pakistan continued while Pakistan was once again engaged by militants from Afghanistan in KP and Balochistan with complete support from the Afghan govt. It’s futile to mention the 70s. In the 80s the same trend continued, while Pakistani ruler was needlessly busy in internal affairs, Siachen was invaded. In the 90s, the sectarian monster was fully used by India again. Pakistan did reply in its very limited capacity. From 2000s, when Pakistan became involved in another Afghan war, despite President Musharaff’s peace overtures, ethnic and religious extremist insurgencies were fanned directly by India and its continuing. Even today, India has made its belligerent intentions abundantly clear.

The point of this reasoning which some enthusiasts might find boring, is simple. Pakistan has never responded proportionally to India’s interferences. Even today, when Pakistan boasts a large and formidable military machine, its passivity is glaring to many. Why hasn’t the establishment in Islamabad, taken complete advantage of the recent Ladakh crisis by engaging India’s border troops or at least supporting armed struggle in Occupied Kashmir? Why is that, even today dissidents from North Eastern Indian states who are more closely related to China, not being hosted or even contacted by Pakistan such as in Manipur, Tripura and Nagaland? This is the time to bring out the dissident and oppressed voices as India’s nuclear as well as conventional deterrence has been cracked wide open by China.

India’s perceived pre-eminence in South Asia is shattered which gives way to smaller powers to open up. Has Pakistan made any effort to let us say arm the Nepalese establishment?

The reasons of this inhibition to engage India seem more out of a cautious approach. It could be that Pakistan establishment fears destabilization and its unintended consequences. Perhaps, in their calculus, India could setup a two front war with the help of Afghanistan and owing to a debilitated economic situation, this could have negative ramifications for Pakistan. Another plausible reason could be the backlash feared from the international power players and its effects on the FATF saga.

These factors have their genuine supporters and carry weight; however, the gravity of the situation in the region demands a more aggressive approach against India. It is paramount that Pakistan roils up India’s federation. North East is one of the prime candidates. If Kashmir’s support is viewed as abetting terrorism by international players –who care nothing about Pakistan’s interests- Indian occupied North East could be an alternative target. North Easterners practically live in a highly discriminating colonial Indian polity. China’s victory can prove to be the impetus they need to acquire freedom. Similarly, Naxalites must also be provided complete assistance. Their exploits in central eastern India warrant attention and help. Pakistan must view the entire India as a battle space. At this point of time. Pakistani establishment do not need to be even creative, they just to need emulate the Indian template of war philosophy which the Hindutva establishment has followed against Pakistan since the beginning. Even now there is a reasonable chance of an Indian misadventure.

For Pakistanis it is imperative to understand, this is India’s 2011 moment. Pakistan faced a similar demoralizing effect after US raid on Abbottabad. India took complete advantage and the subsequent terror attacks are proof. Hence, in one’s opinion it is incumbent on Pakistan’s establishment to avenge the blood of Pakistan’s innocent people who were and are being directly attacked by Hindutva led India. Power matrix in South Asia is undergoing change as the fascist Hindu empire is vulnerable, it is up to Pakistan if they want to keep it this way

PAKISTAN WILL NOT FIGHT ANOTHER WAR WITH INDIA OVER KASHMIR.




individual valour canot make up to institutional cowardice............

the rest you all can figure it out by yourself. by going to library..........

 

[Asian.Century]

Wisdom says - PATIENCE is the Key.

Just as China showed patience for past 20 years of WoT.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Absolutely key this.

They'll always hate us.

Once Delhi collapses and India turns into a handful of smaller states, then all will be well and good. South Asia will become a harmonious place where Muslims, Hindus, whoever will all get along fine. The problem was never religion. The problem was the false construct of Hindustan that is burdened with its perpetual inferiority complex and PTSD from centuries earlier. It is literally hard wired into bhakt DNA and it cannot be undone. Lord knows we've tried. They actually think it's okay to hate us and everything about us, however innocent and irrelevant something or someone may be to their relentless sixth generation wars and perceived eternal grievances. Stuff the aman ki asha.

A paradigm shift is needed in our society. It is no longer ok for Pakistanis to regard Indian culture as something to aspire to or adore. Bollywood, desi-ness in general, following Indian celebs, our diaspora communities faking mutual love and what not - all this rubbish needs to go down the toilet. They ban, ostracise and condemn our artists and sportsmen for crying out loud. We have no shame? Our mentality must shift away from Bollywood, Indian-ness and Indian products. India will struggle to boycott China in a million years, but Pakistan can boycott India tomorrow if it actually tries. I'm talking to our diaspora folks more than anybody here.

Check the labels. Check the paperwork and audit trails. Find out who you're backing, whose pockets your filling. Unless they are bona fide anti-bhakt Indian (which is a minority - believe me), discard and seek an alternative.

The above is only the FIRST step of preparing for the final showdown. It's potentially the hardest because of how we've been brainwashed for decades.

As we've seen last February and just now in Ladakh, bhakt hordes are certifiably insane and deluded. You cannot convince them that the sky is blue if they've been instructed otherwise. There's no negotiating or reasoning with such a mentality. It can only be "treated".

The point being made though is that the treatment is long and arduous. It's not a quick fix. Our whole society must be geared up to supporting one another first and foremost, and dissociating from the bhakts who would exploit us and use us because we are fewer in number and hence easily isolated.

Elite Pakistanis in diaspora communities forget who they are because they spend so much time with bhakts, being brainwashed by their hate to the point that they disown and curse their roots. Some may laugh and trash my comments as conjecture and conspiracy, but if you pause and reflect, you know it to be true. We in western countries know many such people who - due to isolation from other Pakistanis - are lost to the saffron ether forever.

Then there are the ones back home, trying to make quick bucks off each other instead of driving Pakistan forwards. I know Imran Khan is amateurish and a flipflopper, but his underlying sentiments are well placed. People ridicule such sentiments out of jealousy or cynicism, yet such malevolent emotions debase and disrupt societies and even lead to the demise of nations. Without such sentiments as honour, discipline and respect for our fellow citizens as well as ourselves, we will continue to swim in the abyss of corruption, treading on the submerged bodies of one another just to poke our heads above water, thinking we are somehow "better" than the rest, when we're in reality just gasping for a miserly breath of air in a polluted sea.

We cannot prepare for any upcoming battle until mentally our nation has left the disunity and apathy behind and actually reaches out with both hands to grab its destiny.

Physical preparation is easy once the mental battle with ourselves and within ourselves is won.


Yes, this is exactly right. A paradigm shift in society is needed!

Jazak Allahu khairan brother. Great advice all around. It is so good in fact that I don't think I can add anymore.

This thread is a gold mine of Pakistanism, I am glad that some of us are woke.

As for me, I have been boycotting Indian products since around 2010 and I haven't seen a Bollywood film since the early 2000s.

Many Pakistanis derided me and saw me as crazy, but I knew that this Hindutvaism would eventually lead to war. This is because I was very involved with Indians in my locality and had numerous Indian friends, where I learned the nuances of their beliefs and culture. The awakening moment came when one of my friends commented to me that Indians believe all Pakistanis are terrorists but that somehow I was an exception and a stand up guy. I inquired why he felt that way, then he unloaded quite succintly to me the Hindutva world view. My eyes opened wide and it caused me to researxh about RSS more and learn what they were about.

I started to inquire with other Indians and to learn from the past experiences of Pakistanis as well. I started seeing parallels between RSS and Nazım and the Reconquista of Spain. I saw clearly their aims.

As I dug deeper and read about Quaid e Azam's experiences, I realized that this was not a one time thing but it was Hindu civilization and ideology as a whole which had an undercurrent of this extremist ideology all along. Gandhi and Nehru merely dug it up.

That is why I could realize the amount of derision for Hinduism that many of the Ulema had, many originally from coterminus India like Dr. Israr Ahmad, Maulana Maududi, etc. They understood the task the Muslims were facing.

My own elders from the East Punjab and Kashmir border had much to teach me as well about Hindu and Sikh mindsets. Indeed, I absorbed all their experiences and even sat down with many people in Pakistan to learn their experiences. Specifically I sought the most elderly of our people, who still remembered British rule, partition, and the early days of Pakistan.

It seems like every few generations, Indian Hindus go on a genocidal killing spree. It has been that way throughout history when there was no strong state to enforce peace.