What's new

Kuwait Times: Israel is not our enemy

Jews are not the enemy, Zionists are.
Jews are righteous and god fearing people, zionists are greedy, trigger happy, genocidal, racist land grabbers. Massive difference.
Reminds me of French literature a century or two back.

Just as Pakistanis are forbidden to criticize the "Palestinians" today, the French were forbidden to criticize the Roman Catholic Church then. The French solution was to substitute "Jews" for "Church". Because you could criticize Jews. One knew Jews weren't really the ones attacked from the context.

So is the Pakistani solution to substitute "Zionist" for "Palestinian Arab"? Do Killi's and Talli's comments make sense otherwise?

I know these are Saleh Al-Shayeji views, but they're not free to write as they please...
Are you sure? I've never been to Kuwait but even though Kuwait is a monarchy and Pakistan claims to be a democracy, Kuwait's Constitution appears to me to be far more liberal, secular, and rule-of-law-oriented than Pakistan's.

Yes if allah will we could be friend... :-) I also can't deny that...
And how do you propose to discern Allah's will in this matter?
 
.
Look how anybody fears zionists.

Haha

The other day, I was at the local Army surplus store here in the US. A lot of their merchandise is not actual Army surplus but new consumer-grade merchandise they order from a supplier's catalogue. The catalogue, which is not Jewish-owned or affiliated but just an ordinary American militaria catalogue whose clientele is overwhelmingly Christian, advertised "Mossad Covert Ops Bags." This same store, again, owned by Christians not Jews, also sold holsters "tested and proven by the Israeli Army."

You can think the Israelis are good fighters, overrated, evil warmongers or ordinary people defending their homes, whatever, but the reputation these guys have is crazy. If you say anything is Israeli, then Arabs, Westerners, Asians, everyone will assume it is made of awesome. It's just crazy.

Israel is destroying masjid-e-aqsa.. the very first mosque of muslims..

By definition, nothing in Israel can be the "first" mosque, because Muhammed never visited Israel.

They killed innocent palestine and grabing their land..

Saddam killed way more Persians and Kuwaitis and tried to steal way more land. People got over it.

They were about to attack pakistan when we tried to invent nuclear bomb in kahuta plant with the help of India..

Yeah, Israel is just plotting to skip conquering Jordan, Iraq, Iran and India, and make a big swoop over to conquering Pakistan, because they want whatever it is you think you have. Right?

They always stand by India.

Nehru and early Indian governments were hostile to Israel. This changed after decades of Islamic violence in India that had nothing to do with the Israeli-Arab conflict other than the common cause of Islamism.

They are doing lots of conspiracy among muslims world which creates anarchy and chaos.. They are the one who created terrorist organisation Boko Haram, ISIS are labelling it to muslims..

Question...if that is so, then why don't Muslims try to cause anarchy and chaos amongst Jews, or create Jewish terrorist organizations to give us a bad name? If we're doing it to you, why not do it right back?

They in fact were criticized in quran and they never will be friends of muslims...

The Quran is based on the Torah and the claims about Jews in the Quran are intentionally the mirror image of claims made about Arabs in the Torah. The Torah says that Ishmael will become the father of a great nation, and the Quran says that the Jews must forever be entitled to Israel. Ishmael and the Jews are also both portrayed in fairly negative terms as agents of evil, but the salient point is, both the Quran and the Torah it is based on agree that the opposing culture has a right to their kingdom.

Since you are ignorant of this, I can only assume you have never read the Quran. Perhaps you do not care what it actually says...

Are you sure? I've never been to Kuwait but even though Kuwait is a monarchy and Pakistan claims to be a democracy, Kuwait's Constitution appears to me to be far more liberal, secular, and rule-of-law-oriented than Pakistan's.

It can pretend to be secular and lawful in theory because it's even more autocratic in practice. Pakistan is far closer to getting democracy working (which is not saying much) than any Gulf state.

Jews are righteous and god fearing people, zionists are greedy, trigger happy, genocidal, racist land grabbers. Massive difference.

The proof this is a lie is that all Arab countries expelled all their Jews after the founding of Israel. The matter of contention with Israel is not the land itself, nor justice for any actual people living there, but the intolerable condition of kaffirs liberating themselves from Islamic rule.

Everything you said applies far more aptly to Arabs than Jews or Israelis. In reality, Arabs are keenly aware of and deeply bitter about Israel's moral superiority, so they accuse it of everything that applies to themselves.

Indeed Arabs are free to say and do as they please. It should be noted and made clear to our Arab brothers, including the Palestinians, you can recognise the Zionist entity; Pakistan will NEVER recognise it. The sayyasdaan have been checking the mood our nation, the emaan of the awaam is strong and they'll never allow any recognition.

P.S don't be fooled by what you read on PDF. Their views are not at ALL realistic and most of them are foreigners and some of them are not even Muslim.

It's cute how you don't see the contradiction between being Pakistani and claiming your opinions about Israel count more than the people who live next door, and being Pakistani and claiming that anyone who lives outside your country has no idea about anything.
 
.
The other day, I was at the local Army surplus store here in the US. A lot of their merchandise is not actual Army surplus but new consumer-grade merchandise they order from a supplier's catalogue. The catalogue, which is not Jewish-owned or affiliated but just an ordinary American militaria catalogue whose clientele is overwhelmingly Christian, advertised "Mossad Covert Ops Bags." This same store, again, owned by Christians not Jews, also sold holsters "tested and proven by the Israeli Army."

You can think the Israelis are good fighters, overrated, evil warmongers or ordinary people defending their homes, whatever, but the reputation these guys have is crazy. If you say anything is Israeli, then Arabs, Westerners, Asians, everyone will assume it is made of awesome. It's just crazy.



By definition, nothing in Israel can be the "first" mosque, because Muhammed never visited Israel.



Saddam killed way more Persians and Kuwaitis and tried to steal way more land. People got over it.



Yeah, Israel is just plotting to skip conquering Jordan, Iraq, Iran and India, and make a big swoop over to conquering Pakistan, because they want whatever it is you think you have. Right?



Nehru and early Indian governments were hostile to Israel. This changed after decades of Islamic violence in India that had nothing to do with the Israeli-Arab conflict other than the common cause of Islamism.



Question...if that is so, then why don't Muslims try to cause anarchy and chaos amongst Jews, or create Jewish terrorist organizations to give us a bad name? If we're doing it to you, why not do it right back?



The Quran is based on the Torah and the claims about Jews in the Quran are intentionally the mirror image of claims made about Arabs in the Torah. The Torah says that Ishmael will become the father of a great nation, and the Quran says that the Jews must forever be entitled to Israel. Ishmael and the Jews are also both portrayed in fairly negative terms as agents of evil, but the salient point is, both the Quran and the Torah it is based on agree that the opposing culture has a right to their kingdom.

Since you are ignorant of this, I can only assume you have never read the Quran. Perhaps you do not care what it actually says...



It can pretend to be secular and lawful in theory because it's even more autocratic in practice. Pakistan is far closer to getting democracy working (which is not saying much) than any Gulf state.



The proof this is a lie is that all Arab countries expelled all their Jews after the founding of Israel. The matter of contention with Israel is not the land itself, nor justice for any actual people living there, but the intolerable condition of kaffirs liberating themselves from Islamic rule.

Everything you said applies far more aptly to Arabs than Jews or Israelis. In reality, Arabs are keenly aware of and deeply bitter about Israel's moral superiority, so they accuse it of everything that applies to themselves.



It's cute how you don't see the contradiction between being Pakistani and claiming your opinions about Israel count more than the people who live next door, and being Pakistani and claiming that anyone who lives outside your country has no idea about anything.

Muhammad (SAW) visited Jerusalem.

Israel did try to bomb Pakistan's nuclear facilities just like they did to Iraq, but it was called off last minute; they knew Pakistan was not like Iraq and it had a very good and experienced Air Force capable of intercepting and neutralizing any Air threat. In Arab-Israeli wars Pakistani pilots shot down 12 Israeli jets without a scratch on their side.

There wasnt any Islamic violence in India at that time... there was Sikh violence.
Operation Blue Star - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1984 anti-Sikh riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We don't need to create terrorist organizations in Israel to create a bad name; they are already a terrorist organization, many of Israel's current leaders were apart of a zionist terrorist organization that engaged in a guerilla war against the British and were responsible for many atrocities against Arabs in the rural areas.

Quran does not say Jews are entitled to Jerusalem, it says Israelites are; and most descendants of those Israelites are Muslims or Maronite Christians

Honestly democracy has been a leech on us; nobody here likes it and rather prefers military rule; compare military rule in Pakistan with democratic rule in Pakistan; we reached a peak of 11% growth under military rule.

Liberating them selves from Islamic rule? Is that what they teach you in western schools?
Jews and maronite had been living in shit conditions under the Byzantines facing constant persecution; it was we who liberated them and we lost tens of thousands of lives protecting them. Jews were given scholarships and even some time sat next to the throne of the Caliph.


"Heraclius gathered [a] large Byzantine army numbering about 200,000. This army he put under the command of one of his choice men… The Moslems gathered together and the [Byzantine] army marched against them. The battle they fought at aI-Yarmuk was of the fiercest and bloodiest kind… In this battle 24,000 Moslems took part. The [Byzantines] and their followers in the battle tied themselves to each other by chains, so that no one might set his hope on flight. By Allah’s help, some 70,000 of them were put to death...

When Heraelius massed his troops against the. Moslems and the Moslems heard that they were coming to meet them at al-Yarmuk, the Moslems refunded to the inhabitants of Híms the [land tax] they had taken from them saying, “We are too busy to support and protect you. Take care of yourselves.” But the people of Hims replied, “We like your rule and justice far better than the state of oppression and tyranny in which we were. The army of Heraclíus we shall indeed… repulse from the city.”…Saying this, they closed the gates of the city and guarded them… When by Allah’s help the “unbelievers” were defeated and the Moslems won, they opened the gates of their cities, went out with the singers and music players who began to play, and paid the [land tax]."

Yes Arabs expelled jews because they feared they would side with Israel in case of war; just like how Americans sent Japanese to live in camps with horrible conditions - but even before that Zionist militias responsible for killing many British soldiers went village to village forcing Arabs out.
 
. .
These stupid Gulf Arabs are exposing themselves. Both Iranians and Arabs have proven to be driven by self interests than by Islam. Pakistan is no better creating by creating militancy in Afghanistan.
 
.
Muhammad (SAW) visited Jerusalem.

Proof?

Israel did try to bomb Pakistan's nuclear facilities just like they did to Iraq, but it was called off last minute; they knew Pakistan was not like Iraq and it had a very good and experienced Air Force capable of intercepting and neutralizing any Air threat. In Arab-Israeli wars Pakistani pilots shot down 12 Israeli jets without a scratch on their side.

Proof?

Also, what aircraft would Israel possess to strike at such extreme distance?

Why would Israel even care what Pakistan does?

There wasnt any Islamic violence in India at that time... there was Sikh violence.
Operation Blue Star - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1984 anti-Sikh riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So why is there now a Pakistan and not a Sikhistan? Also, cute how you think that Muslims rioting against another group is the same as that group rioting.

We don't need to create terrorist organizations in Israel to create a bad name; they are already a terrorist organization, many of Israel's current leaders were apart of a zionist terrorist organization that engaged in a guerilla war against the British and were responsible for many atrocities against Arabs in the rural areas.

In other words, atrocites were committed where there could be no proof, and British rule of Israel and India was legitimate? Am I getting this right?

Quran does not say Jews are entitled to Jerusalem, it says Israelites are; and most descendants of those Israelites are Muslims or Maronite Christians

G-d made Jacob and Ishmael the fathers of nations - Israelites and Arabs respectively. Therefore, by definition, no Arab can be an Israelite. Since the Muslims and Maronites are Arabs, they therefore cannot be Israelites. And if it were not so, the Quran would not bother to define them as separate groups...just as they were in the Profit's time.

Aren't you effectively going against the Quran's teaching for reasons of your own prejudice and hatred?

Honestly democracy has been a leech on us; nobody here likes it and rather prefers military rule; compare military rule in Pakistan with democratic rule in Pakistan; we reached a peak of 11% growth under military rule.

This is the thinking that predominates the Islamic world and keeps it backward. You envy the Western democracies and their prosperity, you want to live there - you even envy India - then when you can't do what they do, you make excuses. Democracy doesn't work in the Islamic world because of intolerance, and there's no way around that other than making basic cultural reforms.

Liberating them selves from Islamic rule? Is that what they teach you in western schools?

Our schools are better than yours and that is why people come here to attend them.

Jews and maronite had been living in shit conditions under the Byzantines facing constant persecution; it was we who liberated them and we lost tens of thousands of lives protecting them. Jews were given scholarships and even some time sat next to the throne of the Caliph.

This is an Islamic myth. Arabs and Turks looted the Byzantine Empire because it was wealthy and they were greedy. Same thing they did in Persia. The Byzantine Empire was dead for 500 years by the time Israel was founded so it's irrelevant anyway.

But just for sake of argument, okay, Jews had it good under Islamic rule. Doesn't that therefore mean that, because Arabs under Jewish rule are doing better than Arabs under Islamic rule, Israel has a right to rule all of the Levant?


"Heraclius gathered [a] large Byzantine army numbering about 200,000. This army he put under the command of one of his choice men… The Moslems gathered together and the [Byzantine] army marched against them. The battle they fought at aI-Yarmuk was of the fiercest and bloodiest kind… In this battle 24,000 Moslems took part. The [Byzantines] and their followers in the battle tied themselves to each other by chains, so that no one might set his hope on flight. By Allah’s help, some 70,000 of them were put to death...

When Heraelius massed his troops against the. Moslems and the Moslems heard that they were coming to meet them at al-Yarmuk, the Moslems refunded to the inhabitants of Híms the [land tax] they had taken from them saying, “We are too busy to support and protect you. Take care of yourselves.” But the people of Hims replied, “We like your rule and justice far better than the state of oppression and tyranny in which we were. The army of Heraclíus we shall indeed… repulse from the city.”…Saying this, they closed the gates of the city and guarded them… When by Allah’s help the “unbelievers” were defeated and the Moslems won, they opened the gates of their cities, went out with the singers and music players who began to play, and paid the [land tax]."

Fine, let's pretend this one prejudiced anecdote is true. If that's the case, then don't they have the right to change their minds later? We can stop paying the Jizya blackmail, and the country becomes ours again. Isn't that fair?

Yes Arabs expelled jews because they feared they would side with Israel in case of war; just like how Americans sent Japanese to live in camps with horrible conditions - but even before that Zionist militias responsible for killing many British soldiers went village to village forcing Arabs out.

I'm from California. Japanese internment camps were fine. The Japanese did not like being interned, but after the war, everyone accepted it was for the best, the Japanese rejoined mainstream American society and life went on.

The Japanese did not spend the next 50 years committed to terrorism and blowing random people up for reasons of hate. If the Japanese were not reintegrated into American society, they would simply have gone back to Japan, which is a wealthy and functional society with 1/3rd the population of the Arab world and over twice its economic output (many times more if oil is excluded).

The issues Israel has are unique to Sunnis, and the same issues experienced by any country that has ever had to deal with large numbers of them. They are angry losers with a massive inferiority complex and a deluded sense of their own importance. They try to accomplish through brutality and violence what other cultures achieve through discipline, hard work and rule of law. This does not work, ever, so instead they want to come to the West and bring their failed culture with them.
 
.
Reminds me of French literature a century or two back.

Just as Pakistanis are forbidden to criticize the "Palestinians" today, the French were forbidden to criticize the Roman Catholic Church then. The French solution was to substitute "Jews" for "Church". Because you could criticize Jews. One knew Jews weren't really the ones attacked from the context.

So is the Pakistani solution to substitute "Zionist" for "Palestinian Arab"? Do Killi's and Talli's comments make sense otherwise?

Are you sure? I've never been to Kuwait but even though Kuwait is a monarchy and Pakistan claims to be a democracy, Kuwait's Constitution appears to me to be far more liberal, secular, and rule-of-law-oriented than Pakistan's.

And how do you propose to discern Allah's will in this matter?
I can't
 
.
When Heraelius massed his troops against the. Moslems and the Moslems heard that they were coming to meet them at al-Yarmuk, the Moslems refunded to the inhabitants of Híms the [land tax] they had taken from them saying, “We are too busy to support and protect you. Take care of yourselves.” But the people of Hims replied, “We like your rule and justice far better than the state of oppression and tyranny in which we were. The army of Heraclíus we shall indeed… repulse from the city.”…Saying this, they closed the gates of the city and guarded them… When by Allah’s help the “unbelievers” were defeated and the Moslems won, they opened the gates of their cities, went out with the singers and music players who began to play, and paid the [land tax]."

"Heraclius gathered [a] large Byzantine army numbering about 200,000. This army he put under the command of one of his choice men… The Moslems gathered together and the [Byzantine] army marched against them. The battle they fought at aI-Yarmuk was of the fiercest and bloodiest kind… In this battle 24,000 Moslems took part. The [Byzantines] and their followers in the battle tied themselves to each other by chains, so that no one might set his hope on flight. By Allah’s help, some 70,000 of them were put to death...

When Heraelius massed his troops against the. Moslems and the Moslems heard that they were coming to meet them at al-Yarmuk, the Moslems refunded to the inhabitants of Híms the [land tax] they had taken from them saying, “We are too busy to support and protect you. Take care of yourselves.” But the people of Hims replied, “We like your rule and justice far better than the state of oppression and tyranny in which we were. The army of Heraclíus we shall indeed… repulse from the city.”…Saying this, they closed the gates of the city and guarded them… When by Allah’s help the “unbelievers” were defeated and the Moslems won, they opened the gates of their cities, went out with the singers and music players who began to play, and paid the [land tax]."

Yes Arabs expelled jews because they feared they would side with Israel in case of war; just like how Americans sent Japanese to live in camps with horrible conditions - but even before that Zionist militias responsible for killing many British soldiers went village to village forcing Arabs out.


Saw a tv show a couple of days ago when an ex Minister of Education said that islamic radicalism can't be be rooted out because in most islamic majority countries history is being warped in state institutions and children are thought fairy tales instead of history.How can you stop something when it's in their schools curriculum since an early age ?

I now know he was painfully right.They'd flunk me in 2nd grade history if i'd utter such garbage.
 
. . .
Proof?



Proof?

Also, what aircraft would Israel possess to strike at such extreme distance?

Why would Israel even care what Pakistan does?



So why is there now a Pakistan and not a Sikhistan? Also, cute how you think that Muslims rioting against another group is the same as that group rioting.



In other words, atrocites were committed where there could be no proof, and British rule of Israel and India was legitimate? Am I getting this right?



G-d made Jacob and Ishmael the fathers of nations - Israelites and Arabs respectively. Therefore, by definition, no Arab can be an Israelite. Since the Muslims and Maronites are Arabs, they therefore cannot be Israelites. And if it were not so, the Quran would not bother to define them as separate groups...just as they were in the Profit's time.

Aren't you effectively going against the Quran's teaching for reasons of your own prejudice and hatred?



This is the thinking that predominates the Islamic world and keeps it backward. You envy the Western democracies and their prosperity, you want to live there - you even envy India - then when you can't do what they do, you make excuses. Democracy doesn't work in the Islamic world because of intolerance, and there's no way around that other than making basic cultural reforms.



Our schools are better than yours and that is why people come here to attend them.



This is an Islamic myth. Arabs and Turks looted the Byzantine Empire because it was wealthy and they were greedy. Same thing they did in Persia. The Byzantine Empire was dead for 500 years by the time Israel was founded so it's irrelevant anyway.

But just for sake of argument, okay, Jews had it good under Islamic rule. Doesn't that therefore mean that, because Arabs under Jewish rule are doing better than Arabs under Islamic rule, Israel has a right to rule all of the Levant?




Fine, let's pretend this one prejudiced anecdote is true. If that's the case, then don't they have the right to change their minds later? We can stop paying the Jizya blackmail, and the country becomes ours again. Isn't that fair?



I'm from California. Japanese internment camps were fine. The Japanese did not like being interned, but after the war, everyone accepted it was for the best, the Japanese rejoined mainstream American society and life went on.

The Japanese did not spend the next 50 years committed to terrorism and blowing random people up for reasons of hate. If the Japanese were not reintegrated into American society, they would simply have gone back to Japan, which is a wealthy and functional society with 1/3rd the population of the Arab world and over twice its economic output (many times more if oil is excluded).

The issues Israel has are unique to Sunnis, and the same issues experienced by any country that has ever had to deal with large numbers of them. They are angry losers with a massive inferiority complex and a deluded sense of their own importance. They try to accomplish through brutality and violence what other cultures achieve through discipline, hard work and rule of law. This does not work, ever, so instead they want to come to the West and bring their failed culture with them.
1: Israel–Pakistan relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2:
SOxwv2o.png


3: Are you retarded? Supporters of the congress of which was almost all Hindu were responsible for attacks on Sikhs - i suggest that you actually read the link i provided.

4: These were Zionist militias responsible for emptying thousands of Arab villages which resulted in the Arab revolt. I suggest you read them before replying.
Haganah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fosh (Haganah unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Irgun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lehi (group) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
qBGWLzt.png


5: See, this is where I see how blind you are - first off, Palestinians are not arabs and never were; its like saying Egyptians and Sudanese are arabs. Although they adopted Arab languages, name and culture they are not ethnically Arabs.

6: Thinking predominates Islamic world...? Just showing me more and more how much of an idiot you are - The Islamic world and pre-islamic east has always been more prosperous in economics, military, culture and education than the west; Europe was very backward compared to the Islamic world, by the time Muslims were inventing things like algebra, Paris's inhabitants were still living in huts and shitting outside just like India is today. Also, how do we envy India? I've been to both countries and let me tell you this, India would be the last country i would envy as it is a shit country compared to Pakistan and even Bangladesh. Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Qatar, Brunei, Turkey, are all prospering - no need to envy the west. Remember if the west never got involved in Iraq there would have never been ISIS or 9/11 - at that time Iraq was on the road to becoming one of the most prosperous countries with a GDP growth rate of 59% the highest in the world, at that pace Iraq could have left behind in the world within a decade or two. Islamic dominance only became to lag behind in the 1750s-1800s because of Janissaries who refused to accept any reforms.

7: My mom is American and i study in Orlando; and trust me, the amount of biased shit they feed is beyond emphasizable.

8: Islamic myth...? :hitwall: :crazy: You are so brainwashed.... Wikipedia and hundreds of other sources are not Islamic myths.
I SUGGEST YOU READ THIS: History of the Jews under Muslim rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Haha, now you bring up Jizya, a common tactic used by people like you to show how "Mowzlums mistreated good christian and jewish folks" Non-Muslims had to pay taxes because it would be fair for Muslims who also had to pay taxes that non-Muslims were exempt from. Non-Muslims had to pay Jizya which would go to the state and Muslims had to pay Zakat which would go to Charity in many cases Zakat was more than Jizya.

xL1wlAf.png


9: Their failed culture was able to give birth to modern day's western culture. For a thousand years it was Europeans who were bring their failed culture into the Islamic world.
8 Great Modern Innovations We Can Thank Muslims For
Muslim inventions that shaped the modern world - CNN.com
 
. .
ME countries are slowly coming out of the closet,soon only Pakistan will be the only country not having diplomatic relations with Israel

Bolivia declares Israel a 'terrorist state'
EU report urges sanctions against Israel over Jerusalem policies
EU is waging a trade war against Israel
EU considering 'sanctions' against Israel over settlements
British & EU Sanctions Against Israel
Russia Blocked Israeli Military Fights Over Syria, Lebanon

Russia's Presence a Bad Sign for Israel
Russia-China Warn US That Israeli Attack On Iran
New Canadian PM Trudeau Votes No on 16 Anti-Israel U.N. Resolutions

UN Resolution: Israel the World’s Only Violator of Economic and Social Rights
'Jerusalem, Israel' to be Eliminated from Brazil Passports
US only country to oppose UN holding Israel accountable for war crimes, yet again


At present, a total of 32 United Nations member states do not recognise the State of Israel: 18 of the 21 UN members in the Arab League: Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti,Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan,Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.

Almost the whole world is against Israel....

Only India is friend of Israel only because of anti-muslim agenda...:close_tema:
 
. . .

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom