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Kunduz Airlift - The Airlift Of Evil by Pakistan

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I will call out a conspiracy theory be it on any matter or targeting any particular subject.

You are absolutely free to do so, One cant wonder but where to find, a conspiracy theory in recent times endorsed by Cnn, BBC, MSNBC, US state dept, La times, Washington Post, New yorker, etc.

Another conspiracy theory to me would be , a nation waiting(for 42 days) till the last day for fall of a city to pull out its "diplomatic unit". Is such a rhetoric usually termed as "Smoke Screen"
 
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Another version of the 'Conspiracy theory", what will posting a link to this help when it didnt happen at all ?

'For Pakistan, the stalemate in Kunduz was turning into a disaster as hundreds of ISI officers and soldiers from the Frontier Corps aiding the Taliban were trapped there. They had been ordered to quit Afghanistan after 9/11 and had two months to escape, but instead they had stayed on to fight alongside the Taliban. Musharraf telephoned Bush and asked for a huge favour - a US bombing pause and the opening of an air corridor so that Pakistani aircraft could ferry his officers out of Kunduz. Bush and Vice President Cheney agreed, but the operation was top secret, with most cabinet ministers in the dark.

On November 15, 2001, Northern Alliance commanders outside Kunduz reported that Pakistani aircraft were flying into the city at night to airlift the Pakistanis. "Last night two planes, perhaps Pakistani, landed at Kunduz airport and we think they evacuated Pakistanis and Arabs from there," said Northern Alliance spokesman Mohammad Habeel. By November 23, The New York Times wwas reporting that as many as five Pakistani air force planes had landed in Kunduz. The Pakistanis certainly hinted strongly that something was on. Maj-Gen Rashid Qureshi, the army's chief spokesman, said that Islamabad was engaged "in negotiations" with the US Coalition for the safe evacuation of Pakistanis and Kunduz. The Pentagon denied that any such flights were being allowed. Gen Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that "the [Kunduz] runway is not usable, I mean there are segments that are unusable." Rumsfeld reiterated on December 2 that "neither Pakistan nor any other country flew any planes into Afghanistan to evacuate anybody."

In fact, neither man was telling the truth. A former US intelligence analyst, another senior US official, and two ambassadors in the region confirmed to me that the airlift had taken place. International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and UN officials who were on the ground in the north also confirmed the airlift. The American investigative reporter Seymour Hersh, who wrote about the airlift, reported that "the Pakistanis were indeed flown to safety, in a series of nighttime airlifts that were approved by the Bush administration." Hersh said that Taliban and al Qaeda leaders also escaped with them. Hamid Karzai told me that the airlift took place but that he never asked the Americans who escaped because "even the Americans did not know who got away." One senior US intelligence analyst told me, "The request was made by Musharraf to Bush, but Cheney took charge - a token of who was handling Musharraf at the time. The approval was not shared with anyone at State, including Colin Powell, until well after the event. Musharraf said Pakistan needed to save its dignity and its valued people. Two planes were involved, which made several sorties a night over several nights. They took off from air bases in Chitral and Gilgit in Pakistan's northern areas, and landed in Kunduz, where the evacuees were waiting on the tarmac. Certainly hundreds and perhaps as many as one thousand people escaped. Hundreds of ISI officers, Taliban commanders, and foot soldiers belonging to the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) and al Qaeda personnel boarded the planes. What was sold as a minor extraction turned into a major air bridge. The frustrated US Special Operations Forces who watched it from the surrounding high ground dubbed it "Operation Evil Airlift."
 
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true, when it comes to aything against pakistan, US state dept, cnn, bbc, la tiimes, washington post, bbc , every one is a liar.

haha.

I knew you folks would get to this. Instead of debating with your own merits you would switch to this kind of argument :)

Ground troops lie, US SOF operators on the ground lie and NA commanders lie. The only flag bearers of truth are the obvious ones.

Sorry I refuse to trust a lot of people.
For reasons perhaps unknown to you.

And partly because there was no real evidence.

US attacked mullah omars taliban regime backed and propped by pakistan,

Does it come as a surprise?
The only real potential Afghan administration.

Do you know anything about the ethnic split in Afghanistan at the time?
Do you know why the Pushtun felt threatened by the Northern alliance and Uzbek, Hazarah and Tajik? do you know of the systematic cleansing of the Psuhtun in Northern Afghanistan in the 90's?

I would assume you don't by the looks of what you are arguing.

And yes US aided NA led by Ahmed Shah Massoud, compare him and his leadership to mullah omar inc and you will see there is no need to debate the decision.

Again you are a victim of propaganda and Western media's reporting of the issue.
Remember dear... half the truth isn't really the truth at all, it can be distorted and misused immeasurably.

The Northern alliance and many tribal war lords of Tajik, Uzbek ad Hazarah committed many atrocities against ethnic pushtuns.

I know it may come as a surprise to you. You are probably wondering.. 'why doesn't the media tell me about this?'


Aiding and abetting terror cells and leadership, terror camps, aiding and abetting hijackers, nationalizing opium production, genocides.

More... of the same.

And also I'd like to point out, during Taliban rule after 96, opium trade fell dramatically and then sharply rose after the invasion.


US threatened Pakistan in 2004, Musharraf complied; did that reflect the aspirations and national interests of pakistanis, If not how could he hold on to power?

Maybe to do what's right.

I know you fellows can never understand because you've been brainwashed by 10 years of an information war.
 
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Much after the suburbs of Tripoli had been attacked by the rebels.



With a falling regime that Pakistan was doing everything to help, yes.

So only konduz, No other cities, no Kabul, no Kandahar, no mazar e sharif, Diplomats only stayed back in konduz, until it's fall. Why not in other provinces?
 
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You are absolutely free to do so, One cant wonder but where to find, a conspiracy theory in recent times endorsed by Cnn, BBC, MSNBC, US state dept, La times, Washington Post, New yorker, etc.

Those outlets were sure of the intent of the action yet lacked all knowledge about who was on board? Then forgot all about the issue? Yep, sounds like credible, incriminating intel to me.

Another conspiracy theory to me would be , a nation waiting(for 42 days) till the last day for fall of a city to pull out its "diplomatic unit". Is such a rhetoric usually termed as "Smoke Screen"

Possibly, but the line you are towing is called denial, I have asked you only to present a source that lists the "High Value" targets that were airlifted and I will concede to your argument. However, you cannot throw a lot of hearsay at me and expect me to nod in agreement.
 
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Living in a land / era which feels that :

9/11 was an inside job.

OBL didnt live at Abbotabad, he wasnt killed either , at least the man killed at Abbotabad wasn't OBL.

How could then the airlift happened ?
 
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So only konduz, No other cities, no Kabul, no Kandahar, no mazar e sharif, Diplomats only stayed back in konduz, until it's fall. Why not in other provinces?

Kunduz was an important Administrative centre. There were diplomats in other areas too like Kabul, Jalalabad, etc. However, it's not me who chose not to make a conspiracy out of their withdrawal.
 
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I never knew of this incident. Just read the whole thing on Wikipedia. No wonder, Pakistan is chastised and abhorred by rest of the world. And Osama being found in Pakistan just adds fuel to the fire. Pakistan will have to take concrete steps against the thugs if it wants to regain the trust of the civilized world, otherwise seeing light at the end of the dark tunnel will only be a distant dream.

The REST of the world supported Mujaheedin against the Russians. and there is NO civilized world when it comes to strategic interests so its just a fiction to talk about anything called civilized neither any of you had ever been in this circle.
 
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haha.

I knew you folks would get to this. Instead of debating with your own merits you would switch to this kind of argument :)

Sorry I refuse to trust a lot of people.
For reasons perhaps unknown to you.

And partly because there was no real evidence.

News reports will not serve as a indicators, testimonial from spec forces on ground will again not serve as evidence, I wonder how can event that has already happened be proved, I dont know*may be hunting them down in pakistan will serve the purpose. but them you will cry foul for sovereignty. Hence i can't really provide buoyancy to your boat.

Does it come as a surprise?
The only real potential Afghan administration.

Do you know anything about the ethnic split in Afghanistan at the time?
Do you know why the Pushtun felt threatened by the Northern alliance and Uzbek, Hazarah and Tajik? do you know of the systematic cleansing of the Psuhtun in Northern Afghanistan in the 90's?
My afghan conflict knowledge is intact, and clearly remember rabbani and massoud trying to get into talks into taliban for forming a united government. Your mullah Omar franchise got what was coming to them. Unfortunately massoud was assassinated, or else your beloved hekmetyaars and haqqanis would be in six feet under.

Again you are a victim of propaganda and Western media's reporting of the issue.
Remember dear... half the truth isn't really the truth at all, it can be distorted and misused immeasurably.

The Northern alliance and many tribal war lords of Tajik, Uzbek ad Hazarah committed many atrocities against ethnic pushtuns.

I know it may come as a surprise to you. You are probably wondering.. 'why doesn't the media tell me about this?'

I am aware of Human rights violations of NA, but when stacked up against mullah omar inc. the look like white doves, dont they?

And also I'd like to point out, during Taliban rule after 96, opium trade fell dramatically and then sharply rose after the invasion.
True , the nationalized the whole damn thing,
http://www.usip.org/files/resources/taliban_opium_1.pdf


Maybe to do what's right.

I know you fellows can never understand because you've been brainwashed by 10 years of an information war.
 
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Another version of the 'Conspiracy theory", what will posting a link to this help when it didnt happen at all ?

'For Pakistan, the stalemate in Kunduz was turning into a disaster as hundreds of ISI officers and soldiers from the Frontier Corps aiding the Taliban were trapped there. They had been ordered to quit Afghanistan after 9/11 and had two months to escape, but instead they had stayed on to fight alongside the Taliban. Musharraf telephoned Bush and asked for a huge favour - a US bombing pause and the opening of an air corridor so that Pakistani aircraft could ferry his officers out of Kunduz. Bush and Vice President Cheney agreed, but the operation was top secret, with most cabinet ministers in the dark.

On November 15, 2001, Northern Alliance commanders outside Kunduz reported that Pakistani aircraft were flying into the city at night to airlift the Pakistanis. "Last night two planes, perhaps Pakistani, landed at Kunduz airport and we think they evacuated Pakistanis and Arabs from there," said Northern Alliance spokesman Mohammad Habeel. By November 23, The New York Times wwas reporting that as many as five Pakistani air force planes had landed in Kunduz. The Pakistanis certainly hinted strongly that something was on. Maj-Gen Rashid Qureshi, the army's chief spokesman, said that Islamabad was engaged "in negotiations" with the US Coalition for the safe evacuation of Pakistanis and Kunduz. The Pentagon denied that any such flights were being allowed. Gen Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that "the [Kunduz] runway is not usable, I mean there are segments that are unusable." Rumsfeld reiterated on December 2 that "neither Pakistan nor any other country flew any planes into Afghanistan to evacuate anybody."

In fact, neither man was telling the truth. A former US intelligence analyst, another senior US official, and two ambassadors in the region confirmed to me that the airlift had taken place. International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and UN officials who were on the ground in the north also confirmed the airlift. The American investigative reporter Seymour Hersh, who wrote about the airlift, reported that "the Pakistanis were indeed flown to safety, in a series of nighttime airlifts that were approved by the Bush administration." Hersh said that Taliban and al Qaeda leaders also escaped with them. Hamid Karzai told me that the airlift took place but that he never asked the Americans who escaped because "even the Americans did not know who got away." One senior US intelligence analyst told me, "The request was made by Musharraf to Bush, but Cheney took charge - a token of who was handling Musharraf at the time. The approval was not shared with anyone at State, including Colin Powell, until well after the event. Musharraf said Pakistan needed to save its dignity and its valued people. Two planes were involved, which made several sorties a night over several nights. They took off from air bases in Chitral and Gilgit in Pakistan's northern areas, and landed in Kunduz, where the evacuees were waiting on the tarmac. Certainly hundreds and perhaps as many as one thousand people escaped. Hundreds of ISI officers, Taliban commanders, and foot soldiers belonging to the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) and al Qaeda personnel boarded the planes. What was sold as a minor extraction turned into a major air bridge. The frustrated US Special Operations Forces who watched it from the surrounding high ground dubbed it "Operation Evil Airlift."

The report was denied by the Bush Admin, Rumsfeld and the Foreign Office. No proof ever presented to sustain this alleged operation other than a Northern Alliance Operative who magically saw all the way to Kunduz Airport that Pakistani Soldiers and Arab Fighters were being loaded onto planes, even though their attacking line was 70 km away from the city of Kunduz from it's nearest point.

Sounds legit......
 
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As there is a very popular thread running on the forum about India's "subversive" role in Afghanistan, I have always wondered about the konduz airlift also dubbed as the airlift of evil.

It refers to the evacuation of thousands of top commanders and members of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda as well as Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence agents and army personnel, and other ****** volunteers and sympathizers, from the city of Kunduz, Afghanistan, in November 2001 just before its capture by U.S. and United Front of Afghanistan (Northern Alliance) forces during the War in Afghanistan. As described in several reports, the Taliban and Al-Qaeda combatants were safely evacuated from Kunduz and airlifted by Pakistan Army cargo aircraft to Pakistan Air Force bases in Chitral and Gilgit in Pakistan's Northern Areas

Most of the members here on the forum have a very firm rhetoric that Taliban was afghan phenomenon and are very quick to distance themselves from the atrocities committed by the regime.

Why did Pakistan Airlift Taliban and AQ leadership out of Konduz????

5 pages of discussion of this topic now?? whenever i tried to post this years back it was deleted by Mods. Anyways thanks for bringing this up.. we have more unbiased Mods now:tup:..
 
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Possibly, but the line you are towing is called denial, I have asked you only to present a source that lists the "High Value" targets that were airlifted and I will concede to your argument. However, you cannot throw a lot of hearsay at me and expect me to nod in agreement.

Maybe this might interest you;

Nov 21st;
General Mohammed Daoud, a senior alliance commander who had been negotiating with the Taliban, said he would agree surrender terms for Afghans, but would not offer a deal to Arabs, Chechens and Pakistanis.

Abdul Akhman was even blunter: "If the local Taliban surrender, we will attack the Punjabi and Chechen Taliban left in Kunduz.

BTW the second in command Mullah dadullah, who should have apparently be in NA custody mysteriously disappeared during the fall of konduz to reappear in Helmand province.
 
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The report was denied by the Bush Admin, Rumsfeld and the Foreign Office. No proof ever presented to sustain this alleged operation other than a Northern Alliance Operative who magically saw all the way to Kunduz Airport that Pakistani Soldiers and Arab Fighters were being loaded onto planes, even though their attacking line was 70 km away from the city of Kunduz from it's nearest point.

Sounds legit......
and you believed in what Bush admin said!! you know the reason why they denied it...
 
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Maybe this might interest you;

Nov 21st;
General Mohammed Daoud, a senior alliance commander who had been negotiating with the Taliban, said he would agree surrender terms for Afghans, but would not offer a deal to Arabs, Chechens and Pakistanis.

Abdul Akhman was even blunter: "If the local Taliban surrender, we will attack the Punjabi and Chechen Taliban left in Kunduz.

BTW the second in command Mullah dadullah, who should have apparently be in NA custody mysteriously disappeared during the fall of konduz to reappear in Helmand province.

:lol: oh yeh and the alliance was only limited to some parts so its stupidity if any conspiracy therorist claims that the local taliban would have surrender or for that matter the alliance even had the power to negotiate anything which you had claimed.
 
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Maybe this might interest you;

Nov 21st;
General Mohammed Daoud, a senior alliance commander who had been negotiating with the Taliban, said he would agree surrender terms for Afghans, but would not offer a deal to Arabs, Chechens and Pakistanis.

Abdul Akhman was even blunter: "If the local Taliban surrender, we will attack the Punjabi and Chechen Taliban left in Kunduz.

BTW the second in command Mullah dadullah, who should have apparently be in NA custody mysteriously disappeared during the fall of konduz to reappear in Helmand province.

yeh and the alliance was only limited to some parts so its stupidity if any conspiracy therorist claims that the local taliban would have surrender or for that matter the alliance even had the power to negotiate anything which you had claimed.
 
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