KSA wants huge Naval deals but on the condition that 50% of the value of each contract is spent locally

[The SC]

The first ship was planned to launch in 9 months. The program would be completed in 54 months and the last ship would be completly built and launched by KSA's own shipyard. The deal cost was much less financially than the deal KSA made later with other competitor. If this process was successful, KSA could be designing its own unique frigate with its own means, just like Pakistan today.

Probably with Trump's pressure, this pre-agreement was broken. Because they tried to sell corvettes to KSA for $2 billion each.

Nope.. Navantia of Spain won the bid..

You can't compare the US MMSC frigates with Milgem ADA corvettes.. not even in the same class..

Maybe KSA will get them now that the political atmosphere is better..we'll wait and see..

 

[The SC]

The LCS aren’t considered worth keeping in the USN fleet; they are being dumped by the US navy in a couple of years. Why does the Saudi navy want them?

The Saudi version is a tailor made special edition with AEGIS..

 

[PakFactor]

@The SC

While this is a good direction to take in the future while educating new talent and building it up, I hope state security offers engineers, etc top level protection and the Saudis increase surveillance of those inside — seeing as how Iranian senior engineers are being killed. We in the Muslim world are in a very dangerous position as we have to many infiltrations and no checks in place.

 

[FuturePAF]

The Saudi version is a tailor made special edition with AEGIS..

View attachment 852303

But if the ships start cracking (independence class) or their propulsion’s breakdown (freedom class) they will be useless. Hopefully for the Royal Saudi Navy they insist on modifications (if they plan to go through with the acquisition) to make sure those issues are properly addressed.

 

[Corruptistan]

Nope.. Navantia of Spain won the bid..

You can't compare the US MMSC frigates with Milgem ADA corvettes.. not even in the same class..

Maybe KSA will get them now that the political atmosphere is better..we'll wait and see..

How does the Navantia deal compare to the proposed Turkish deal way back with the Milgem Ada Class Corvette that never materialized in terms of overall specs, transfer of technology, price tag etc.?

But if the ships start cracking (independence class) or their propulsion’s breakdown (freedom class) they will be useless. Hopefully for the Royal Saudi Navy they insist on modifications (if they plan to go through with the acquisition) to make sure those issues are properly addressed.

I am not sure if this deal will even materialize. How much of that gigantic military deal signed under Trump’s presidency has even been fulfilled? Was there not talk of the Democrats overruling some of those deals? I don’t think that Saudi Arabia’s strong push for self-suffiency serves the interests of the US. Relations during the Biden administration have been less than cordial as well.

If you ask me, if you take all aspects into account, as I wrote earlier in post 8 in this thread, the Chinese option is the best one IMO.

 

[The SC]

How does the Navantia deal compare to the proposed Turkish deal way back with the Milgem Ada Class Corvette that never materialized in terms of overall specs, transfer of technology, price tag etc.?

Well KSA got 60% ToT with Navantia..and not just any ToT..very advanced components ..
And the Avante 2200 was sold to other navies before..While the Milgem ADA was just a concept at that time..two very important factors..

I am not sure if this deal will even materialize. How much of that gigantic military deal signed under Trump’s presidency has even been fulfilled? Was there not talk of the Democrats overruling some of those deals? I don’t think that Saudi Arabia’s strong push for self-suffiency serves the interests of the US. Relations during the Biden administration have been less than cordial as well.

If you ask me, if you take all aspects into account, as I wrote earlier in post 8 in this thread, the Chinese option is the best one IMO.

Lockheed Martin Started Construction on Saudi Arabia’s 2nd MMSC

Lockheed Martin Started Construction on Saudi Arabia's 2nd MMSC - Naval News

Lockheed Martin and Fincantieri started construction on the second Multi Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC) for the Royal Saudi Navy (RSN). A low key steel cutting ceremony took place on at Fincantieri Marinette Marine in Wisconsin in late January.

www.navalnews.com

​

Steel cut for first Saudi Navy MMSC combat ship​

https://www.navaltoday.com/2019/11/19/steel-cut-for-first-saudi-navy-mmsc-combat-ship/

 

[Corruptistan]

Well KSA got 60% ToT with Navantia..and not just any ToT..very advanced components ..
And the Avante 2200 was sold to other navies before..While the Milgem ADA was just a concept at that time..two very important factors..

Lockheed Martin Started Construction on Saudi Arabia’s 2nd MMSC View attachment 852485​

Lockheed Martin Started Construction on Saudi Arabia's 2nd MMSC - Naval News

Lockheed Martin and Fincantieri started construction on the second Multi Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC) for the Royal Saudi Navy (RSN). A low key steel cutting ceremony took place on at Fincantieri Marinette Marine in Wisconsin in late January.

www.navalnews.com

​

Steel cut for first Saudi Navy MMSC combat ship​

https://www.navaltoday.com/2019/11/19/steel-cut-for-first-saudi-navy-mmsc-combat-ship/

That is a impressive percentage. Do we know which components precisely or is that not public knowledge?

I stand corrected. Do we know if the issues that @FuturePAF mentioned will be solved? If it is custom-made specifically for Saudi Arabia, one would expect that I guess.

How is the Saudi Arabian AEGIS naval weapons system comparable to say the Australian, Japanese and South Korean ones? If it will be a newer and custom-build version, is it asking too much to expect it to be superior overall?

Lastly are there any rumors or news about the procurement of advanced submarines? According to Tactical Report, a few years back, there was apparently interest in Navantia’s Isaac Peral S-81-class submarine.

Which submarines do you think are being considered?

I found an interesting article from Naval News.

WDS 2022: Navantia And SAMI To Boost Tech Development In S. Arabia​

Spanish shipbuilder and systems integrator Navantia has partnered with Advanced Electronics Company (AEC), a SAMI company, to boost technology development in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA).​

Naval News Staff 09 Mar 2022

Navantia press release

NAVANTIA is a state-owned company widely experienced in ship design, construction, and integration of surface combatants, submarines, naval auxiliaries, and associated systems for the naval and merchant market, and is the designer and builder of five Avante 2200 corvettes for Royal Saudi Naval Forces (RSNF). AEC is focused on developing, designing, manufacturing, selling, and supporting military systems and is a strategic partner of RSNF.

The two companies will explore potential collaboration related to the maintenance and overhaul of Navantia systems and new business opportunities in Saudi Arabia.

To launch this cooperation, Navantia and AEC have signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) during their attendance at World Defence Show (WDS) in Riyadh.

“We are proud to materialize our commitment to increasing localization in our relationship with RSNF.”

Donato Martínez, Navantia’s Vice President for Systems and Services

Navantia photo

“The agreement will bolster our strategic partnership with Navantia and solidify our long-lasting relationship with RSNF as we continue to explore similar collaborations, cementing SAMI Advanced Electronics’ presence as a key enabler of Saudi Vision 2030 goals through enhancing the company’s capabilities and increasing local content.”

Eng. Ziad Al Musallam, CEO of Advanced Electronics Company

This MoU represents a further step in the relationship between Navantia and SAMI. Both companies have created a joint venture to develop, integrate and market the first Saudi Combat System: HAZEM. The already fully operational company, called SAMI-Navantia, was awarded a significant contract in September 2019 for the supply and integration of the combat system of the five Avante 2200 corvettes currently under construction for the Royal Saudi Naval Forces.

SAMI Navantia employs more than 30 Saudi people. The Saudi engineers with direct participation in the Avante 2200 Corvettes project are deployed in Spain during the duration of the program and will become the backbone of the ship’s support in the Kingdom. The capability and skills developed in the Avante program will also benefit the future naval projects of the Royal Saudi Naval Forces and the international programs where both companies are already cooperating.

WDS 2022: Navantia and SAMI to boost tech development in S. Arabia - Naval News

Navantia has partnered with Advanced Electronics Company (AEC), a SAMI company, to boost technology development in KSA.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Maula Jatt]

This is actually a good development

 

[The SC]

That is a impressive percentage. Do we know which components precisely or is that not public knowledge?

I stand corrected. Do we know if the issues that @FuturePAF mentioned will be solved? If it is custom-made specifically for Saudi Arabia, one would expect that I guess.

How is the Saudi Arabian AEGIS naval weapons system comparable to say the Australian, Japanese and South Korean ones? If it will be a newer and custom-build version, is it asking too much to expect it to be superior overall?

Lastly are there any rumors or news about the procurement of advanced submarines? According to Tactical Report, a few years back, there was apparently interest in Navantia’s Isaac Peral S-81-class submarine.

Which submarines do you think are being considered?

I found an interesting article from Naval News.

WDS 2022: Navantia And SAMI To Boost Tech Development In S. Arabia​

Spanish shipbuilder and systems integrator Navantia has partnered with Advanced Electronics Company (AEC), a SAMI company, to boost technology development in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA).​

Naval News Staff 09 Mar 2022

Navantia press release

NAVANTIA is a state-owned company widely experienced in ship design, construction, and integration of surface combatants, submarines, naval auxiliaries, and associated systems for the naval and merchant market, and is the designer and builder of five Avante 2200 corvettes for Royal Saudi Naval Forces (RSNF). AEC is focused on developing, designing, manufacturing, selling, and supporting military systems and is a strategic partner of RSNF.

The two companies will explore potential collaboration related to the maintenance and overhaul of Navantia systems and new business opportunities in Saudi Arabia.

To launch this cooperation, Navantia and AEC have signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) during their attendance at World Defence Show (WDS) in Riyadh.

Navantia photo


This MoU represents a further step in the relationship between Navantia and SAMI. Both companies have created a joint venture to develop, integrate and market the first Saudi Combat System: HAZEM. The already fully operational company, called SAMI-Navantia, was awarded a significant contract in September 2019 for the supply and integration of the combat system of the five Avante 2200 corvettes currently under construction for the Royal Saudi Naval Forces.

SAMI Navantia employs more than 30 Saudi people. The Saudi engineers with direct participation in the Avante 2200 Corvettes project are deployed in Spain during the duration of the program and will become the backbone of the ship’s support in the Kingdom. The capability and skills developed in the Avante program will also benefit the future naval projects of the Royal Saudi Naval Forces and the international programs where both companies are already cooperating.

WDS 2022: Navantia and SAMI to boost tech development in S. Arabia - Naval News

Navantia has partnered with Advanced Electronics Company (AEC), a SAMI company, to boost technology development in KSA.

www.navalnews.com

Check post # 13 for the ToT components.. and there is more.. like training, building bases and so on..

The Saudi AEGIS is tailor made for KSA too..I won't compare it to Australian, Japanese and South Korean.. these nations shores are on huge seas..which is not the case of KSA.. and superior..no..it is more compact and sophisticated made on the base of the US AEGIS.. these nations got the US AEGIS itself..

No submarines in view..certainly not the Spanish one.. maybe some from SK in the future..since they have their own program now..

KSS-III

 

[Corruptistan]

I just saw the other thread on this section and the article posted.

March 2019

Saudi Arabian Military Industries and France’s Naval sign deal to build warships in the Kingdom​

SAMI and French Naval Group will manufacture warships, frigates, and submarines in Saudi. Above, is an image of a Saudi amphibious hovercraft participating in military drills in 2018. (AFP/File)

Saudi Arabian Military Industries and France’s Naval sign deal to build warships in the Kingdom

JEDDAH: A joint venture to strengthen the Royal Saudi Naval Forces is to be set up between a state-owned defense firm and a French company specializing in naval defense. The Saudi Arabian Military Industries Company (SAMI) and Naval Group signed an agreement on the sidelines of the International...

www.arabnews.com

What has happened since?

Another thing, is Saudi Arabia headhunting highly qualified people that could help their domestic industries? Many countries engage in that. Saudi Arabia has all the money in the world. The government should focus on such a policy and make it easier and attractive for in particular Muslim scientists from across the world to come, contribute and settle down.

While I understand the concept of Saudization it is currently being pursued aggressively and the costs force many to leave without wanting it.

 

[The SC]

I just saw the other thread on this section and the article posted.

March 2019

Saudi Arabian Military Industries and France’s Naval sign deal to build warships in the Kingdom​

SAMI and French Naval Group will manufacture warships, frigates, and submarines in Saudi. Above, is an image of a Saudi amphibious hovercraft participating in military drills in 2018. (AFP/File)

Saudi Arabian Military Industries and France’s Naval sign deal to build warships in the Kingdom

JEDDAH: A joint venture to strengthen the Royal Saudi Naval Forces is to be set up between a state-owned defense firm and a French company specializing in naval defense. The Saudi Arabian Military Industries Company (SAMI) and Naval Group signed an agreement on the sidelines of the International...

www.arabnews.com

What has happened since?

Another thing, is Saudi Arabia headhunting highly qualified people that could help their domestic industries? Many countries engage in that. Saudi Arabia has all the money in the world. The government should focus on such a policy and make it easier and attractive for in particular Muslim scientists from across the world to come, contribute and settle down.

While I understand the concept of Saudization it is currently being pursued aggressively and the costs force many to leave without wanting it.

Muslim scientists prefer to live in the West.. while Western scientists prefer Saudi Arabia and the UAE.. strange world.. but not seemingly as Westerners living in KSA have their own compounds and some freedom within..

 

[dani191]

Muslim scientists prefer to live in the West.. while Western scientists prefer Saudi Arabia and the UAE.. strange world.. but not seemingly as Westerners living in KSA have their own compounds and some freedom within..

they come few years make some good money return to there countries

 

[Corruptistan]

Muslim scientists prefer to live in the West.. while Western scientists prefer Saudi Arabia and the UAE.. strange world.. but not seemingly as Westerners living in KSA have their own compounds and some freedom within..

Are you sure about that? Because I know quite a few Pakistanis and Arabs that have left the West to work/live permanently in KSA/GCC.

Anyway KSA should do a lot more to attract some of the brighest minds from the Muslim world. Free citizenship to very gifted people should be pursued whether Arab or non-Arab IMO. KSA does not have the luxury of a 100 + million population after all.

 

[dani191]

Are you sure about that? Because I know quite a few Pakistanis and Arabs that have left the West to work/live permanently in KSA/GCC.

Anyway KSA should do a lot more to attract some of the brighest minds from the Muslim world. Free citizenship to very gifted people should be pursued whether Arab or non-Arab IMO. KSA does not have the luxury of a 100 + million population after all.

egypt have 100 milion population how is it helped them? also pakistan an indonesia have over 200 milion people but france have less then 70 milion and they manufacture everything alone

 

[FuturePAF]

View attachment 852242​

“Tough Negotiations” European companies suffer from selling their products to Saudi Arabia..
The Kingdom requires spending 50% of the transaction value locally to transfer knowledge..

Naval Group presented the latest Belharra frigates to the Saudi Navy.. While the Italian Fincantieri has proposed an advanced version of the FREMM frigate..

View attachment 852236

The maritime sector was particularly prominent in WDS 2022. The Saudi Navy is heading for a complete modernization.. Expanding its capabilities after ordering four Lockheed Martin MMSC ships and five Navantia Avante-2200 corvettes,

View attachment 852241

The Navy still needed another 4-6 frigates or 5-8 large corvettes.. Therefore, major shipbuilders have offered their most advanced solutions, side by side with partnership proposals for local industry. In fact, under the concept of Vision 2030
The Kingdom's new offset policies state that 50% from the value of each contract must be spent locally..

In an effort to bring knowledge to Saudi Arabia and develop the national industry, It is no coincidence that Saudi Aramco, Sami and Saudi Scopa Groups announced multiple cooperation agreements that will bring the best defense technologies
to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia..

Fincantieri has proposed a version of its FREMM frigates, but it can also rework its Zubarah-class ships, if Saudi Arabia needs
something smaller and less complex.

View attachment 852245

In the same segment, Naval Group promoted their latest design,. It is the multi-purpose frigate FDI / Belharra, and in the end
GOWIND 2500.. DESIGN..

View attachment 852238

Hyundai seeks to benefit from its agreements with Aramco to propose its own products such as the FFX-I / II / III frigates

View attachment 852239

The HDF-3500 and HDF-3800SA other proposals included DSME's DW-3000H..

View attachment 852244

View attachment 852243


And many frigate offers from the Chinese CSSC

View attachment 852240

The government is increasing budgets and has ambitions for the country..

When speaking to a variety of stakeholders, it is clear that Saudi Arabia is seen as one of the most popular markets
promising in the region, either directly or indirectly; In fact, Saudi political influence in the Middle East may act as a catalyst for the launch of a broader market in the region for those companies that are able to seize the opportunities to sell to Riyadh
The exhibition itself has the potential to become a staple and a new market in the coming years..

These all seem like Frigates. Any plans for the Saudis to get destroyers (more robust and faster vessels) so the Saudis would be able to protect their own SLOCs for their oil exports to Asia and Europe, just in case they have to.

egypt have 100 milion population how is it helped them? also pakistan an indonesia have over 200 milion people but france have less then 70 milion and they manufacture everything alone

France has had hundreds of years of military and economic development, while generally staying intact by and large over that time. Colonized countries haven’t had that luxury. Furthermore grande as a colonial power then, and still to this day (just not in name) underwrites their spending on R&D to be able to independently keep pace technologically. If it was just population or economic size, the Germans would be ahead of the French, but the Germans don’t have the empire and are still paying for their reunification by subsidies to the eastern part of their country to bring back the economy there.